Enlighten me on air rifles

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Mon May 25, 2015 9:27 pm

I have a Stoeger X10, that I've been trying to tune up for garden pests. What kind of accuracy should I expect from a $140 spring powered air rifle? I've tried 4 different type lead pellets, and the best accuracy I've been able to manage is about 3" at 25 yards with a 4x scope that came with it. If that's the best this thing is going to do I may as well use it as a tomato stake.
Is there a certain type of pellet that may prove more accurate? I've been shooting off a solid bench with sandbags, and pulling the rifle into my shoulder snugly, since the rifle does seem to shake rattle and roll somewhat when that spring lets go.
Thought about trying a different scope, since there is occasionally a flyer that will be several inches out of the already large group. My $25 Daisy I had as a kid shot better than this thing. Frustrated.

1894c · Post by **1894c** » Mon May 25, 2015 9:31 pm

they don't use gun powder...SORRY...couldn't resist...my experience is limited, but I have had more fun shooting a Czeck made .177cal pellet gun (accuracy is better than you're getting)-- hopefully others will be along to actually offer help and expertise... :)

harry · Post by **harry** » Mon May 25, 2015 9:46 pm

I've only had the RWS model 34 (I think that's what it is) and with open sights on a rest it will shoot groups that are about 1/4" at 25 yards. You may have just got a bad one, mine does not shake rattle when fired, just a thump.
Here is the one I have but it only cost 125 in 1992
http://www.airgundepot.com/rws34.html

Pisgah · Post by **Pisgah** » Mon May 25, 2015 10:22 pm

I have an inexpensive Ruger air rifle that came with a scope. My results were about the same as yours -- until I got rid of the scope and used the sights that the rifle came with, too. I went from 3" groups at 25 yards with three different pellets to 1/2" to 1" groups. I really think that, with an airgun more than with a firearm, you ought to spend at least as much on the scope as you do on the rifle, and make it a scope specifically built for air rifle use.

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Tue May 26, 2015 2:19 am

My son bought a CZ .177 air rifle that is scary accurate, I've never seen a springer that shoots like this one.
It is not very powerful but has put a lot of rabbits in the bag, he sold it my G/F and I use it to shoot squirrels in her garden, even took out a young fox with a close up head shot.
I would ditch the carrying handle and shoot the heck out of it to smooth the spring and piston a bit, good lube may help and make sure all screws are tight, springers have a habit of shooting loose.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Tue May 26, 2015 5:19 am

Try taking it off the sandbags. A lot of springers shoot best when they are shot using an artillery hold.

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Tue May 26, 2015 7:37 am

Springers can take a while to come to terms with.

I have an RWS 48 that took me a LOOONG time to
learn to shoot well. Cheap scopes frequently do
not help.

Make sure all of your stock screws are tight.

How tightly to hold a springer is sometimes one
of the problems. Too tightly negatively affects
accuracy - they seem to like to "play" a little bit.
Left hand is DIRECTLY vertical under the forearn
with a "dead" hand. Follow-through is absolutely
critical. Remember that the pellet is moving A LOT
slower than a bullet in the barrel, and with a springer
there is more going on than in a regualr rifle. Really
think about keeping the sights on target as long as is
possible after you press the trigger. If you can master a
finicky springer, your powder rifle shooting will improve
markedly.

I also have a Chinese-made Beeman I got from Cabela's,
for something like a hundred bucks. The trigger just
ain't that great, but within 25 yards, ANY squirrel is
a goner. I've had consistent quarter-size groups out
of both guns at 35 yards. With practice, the RWS will
give me dime-sized groups, but I've got to practice.
All of this from a sitting position.

Practice helps. Try quality pellets like RWS or Beeman.
I've never had real good luck with cheap pellets.

You might also just have a bid rifle. Try to borrow another
one and see how that goes.

Good Luck!

-Stretch

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Tue May 26, 2015 7:48 am

Rusty wrote:Try taking it off the sandbags. A lot of springers shoot best when they are shot using an artillery hold.

Springers take a consistent hold and must be allowed to recoil to eek out the accuracy. Your rifle should do much better. My .20 cal springer is by far the most accurate rifle I have, and the second most accurate I have ever shot, the first being my PCP air rifle.
My springer is scoped but I cannot shoot it off a rest without changing the POI. I always have my hand under it while shooting. On the bench, I rest the rifle on my hand, lightly cupping it. I never shoot it off of something hard if I desire to hit what I am aiming for. Also, springers are rough on scopes. Purchase a quality scope designed for the abuse.

I kept the springer over the PCP rifle because I didn't want to be attached to a pump or charging system. When I hang up all the other firearms, I will still have my feinwerkbau springer

rock-steady · Post by **rock-steady** » Tue May 26, 2015 7:51 am

I have a Stoeger x20S 22cal spring piston air rifle and had much the same experience as TedH in the beginning. I started out with 10" groups at 25 yards. I was very disappointed. However, I changed scopes and read up on the "artillery hold" that stretch and rusty have mentioned. After a break-in period of 250 shots, I can now hit a Vienna sausage can at 40 yards almost every time offhand.

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Tue May 26, 2015 8:55 am

I have the Daisy Avanti Mentor - the cheap plastic target model ($100)
http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Avanti_84 ... rifle/2143 (my review from 4 years ago is still there)
Only 300 fps, but it shoots great with the peep site. With pellets, it will group under a quarter-inch at 10m, and offhand I have no problem with varmints at 50'
Really functional cheap plastic peep site that will take a Marble's aperture

765x53 · Post by **765x53** » Tue May 26, 2015 9:34 am

Shoot it a lot, several hundred rounds, before judging accuracy.
You are breaking in a mainspring and piston as well as a barrel.

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Tue May 26, 2015 10:07 am

Pisgah wrote:
I have an inexpensive Ruger air rifle that came with a scope.

My results were about the same as yours -- until I got rid of the scope and used the sights that the rifle came with, too.

I really think that, with an airgun more than with a firearm, you ought to spend at least as much on the scope as you do on the rifle, and make it a scope specifically built for air rifle use.

+1

I privately sold ($40) the 4x scope that my $110 Chinese-made .177cal Ruger Airhawk came with, and went with the issue fiber-optic open sights - mostly because the max range I use it is 10-15 yds.

I can't speak to the accuracy of various pellets, because I'm still using the huge (500) tin of pells I bought with it.

.

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Tue May 26, 2015 10:12 am

if you have a dovetail and want the good peep site, this place has the best price on Williams
http://www.airgunsofarizona.com/

jnyork · Post by **jnyork** » Tue May 26, 2015 2:21 pm

Hey, Ted, get a scope specifically designed for air rifles. Springers will tear up a regular scope in just a jiffy or two.

EdinCT · Post by **EdinCT** » Tue May 26, 2015 2:33 pm

I bought a Gamo hunter that came with a BSA scope that walked all over. I then bought a new mount and Bushnell air rifle scope. It is like night and day. Also my rifle likes Beeman or RWS pellets. They shoot head and shoulders above the rest.

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Tue May 26, 2015 8:05 pm

I have a RWS springer as well I bought from Big 5 years ago. I bought it because it had a really great trigger and fiber optic sights and interchangeable barrels between 177 and 22. What RWS did with this "assembled in Mexico" rifle was they used dieseling of the lubing oil to get the velocity so high but it is inconsistent. It is still a very nice rifle IMHO for plinking using its iron sights and everything that has been said about how you hold a springer for shooting applies here. Light hand held only, and let it recoil as stated otherwise the vibrations of holding it tight disturb accuracy. Shootist Jim Williamson who is a crazy varmint hunter using air guns has told me many times that he credits his shooting ability to his many hours spent shooting varmints with air rifles. I think Old Savage may have heard him say the same.

It sounds like you may also have a scope issue that is hurting your accuracy.

There are some really neat super magnum air guns out there now with hollow point bullets that have had my interest for years now!

Regards,

-Tutt

Marvin S · Post by **Marvin S** » Tue May 26, 2015 9:05 pm

Some good advice on holding it has been given. As for pellets the JSB exact and H&N barracuda have shot good for me.

octagon · Post by **octagon** » Tue May 26, 2015 9:15 pm

A friend has bought several of the Quackenbush air rifles and reports excellent results, among others he has the .458. Think the guy makes a full auto .357. Don't know how to post a link but I googled it today, very interesting and quite inexpensive.

Canuck Bob · Post by **Canuck Bob** » Tue May 26, 2015 11:14 pm

Definitely shoot it a bunch to settle things in. The high power break barrel springer air rifles are fussy sometimes.

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/04/ ... ccurately/
http://www.airgundepot.com/how-to-get-a ... ticle.html

Pellets can make a huge difference. Cheap ones or bad lots can be terrible. I would try some heavier
pellets for that thumper. I try a bunch in new air rifles. I've had good luck with JSB, RWS, and H&N however my air guns are mid power tin can bashers.

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2005/08/ ... et-of-all/
http://www.pyramydair.com/article/The_r ... er_2009/72

Good talk under hunting heading below.

http://www.airgundepot.com/air-gun-pellets.html

One thing load a pellet and then break the barrel. Some rifles fold the pellet skirt when the barrel is latched. If you find some skirts deformed accuracy will be terrible.

Also a good cleaning of one new springer made a huge difference. The packing grease in the barrel resembled dry wax!

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Wed May 27, 2015 8:04 am

Last night I fired a few more groups following the advice on holding the rifle. There was little to no improvement in group size. Next I removed the scope and fired a couple more groups with 2 different pellets with the fiber optic sights, there was no discernable difference in group size there either. I suppose I will next buy some high quality pellets as some of you mentioned and see if that helps. The rifle has about 100 rounds through it by now, but I'll continue to break it in with the cheap pellets until they are used up.

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Wed May 27, 2015 9:52 am

I don't understand why scopes are being discussed - we like peep sights on our 50-yd rifles, why would we not prefer them to a scope on our 50' bb guns?

Canuck Bob · Post by **Canuck Bob** » Wed May 27, 2015 10:36 am

Finely tuned air rifles can be amazingly accurate with a scope. I have two nice air rifles both without a scope however most enthusiasts mount scopes Same reason most deer rifles have scopes I suspect, easier precision.

Many shooters without military training have never used iron sights. Many rifles no longer come equipped with sights.

Richardx · Post by **Richardx** » Wed May 27, 2015 11:00 am

I sheared the rear sights off my 1988 RWS 34 and could not find replacements, added a cheap BSA scope and squirrels hate me. Just saying.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Wed May 27, 2015 11:58 am

Called Stoeger this morning and explained what was going on. He said there about had to be a problem with the rifle, or barrel, and gave me a return authorization to send it in for them to look over.

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Wed May 27, 2015 7:19 pm

Keep us posted, Ted.

I'm curious to hear what they say.

-Stretch

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Wed May 27, 2015 8:34 pm

This is my air rifle

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Thu May 28, 2015 2:35 am

Ted, some guys report bad performance with your rifle over here too .

Chinese units with bad triggers, bad leads on the breach and bad muzzle crowns.

The triggers are tunable with fine stones. Polishing the breach so it is kinder on a loading pellet will go a lng way. Also carful polish of the crown.

Your market suffers with a desire of high speed over everything else in advertising, often achieved with light pellets! Light pellets and speed never mix well in spring guns. Stick to around 16grn and up in 22 pellets and around 10grn and up in 177.

N.

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Thu May 28, 2015 8:40 am

Nath makes a great point: Don't get obsessed with velocity.

My RWS definitely prefers heavier pellets - 14 to 16 grains and up.

The pellet shape is fine for subsonic work, even though the ballistic
coeffiecient isn't that great. In the transsonic range, most pellets
begin to tumble, which does NOTHING for accuracy. Heavier in most
springers, is, I'd agree, better. As always, try some out in your rifle and
see what it likes the best.

-Stretch

bdhold · Post by **bdhold** » Thu May 28, 2015 9:35 am

casastahle wrote:This is my air rifle
...

my dad's, too. Though not legal, he dispatches varmints with .22 shorts in his mod 67 (bought when he was 5 yo) - it's a shooter

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Thu May 28, 2015 12:55 pm

MY AIR RIFLE is the SHERIDAN BLUE STREAK 5MM and I am here to tell you it is a killin' sumbee. Bought it in 1969 and it has yet to give me a moments problem. IT came with a Williams 5D rear receiver sight installed. The 5MM WC style pellets are really deadly and amazingly accurate. The only problem is I am on the last tin can full from the case I bought with the rifle from the OLD Buckeye Shooters Supply. [ anyone remember them..?] I used it the other day to protect my squirrels and the culprit fell and committed sewerside by running in front of a P/U truck immediately there-after.

Is that a REminton 541-THB ? I have one of those and it is a wonderful bolt action 22 rifle. It averaged 1. 54 MOA at one hundred yards with 32 different 22LR loads, all with ten[10!] shot groups. [ LOAD 6 SHOOT 6 RE-LOAD 4 GET ALL SET BACK UP SHOOT 4 IN THE SAME GROUP....It was enough to try the patience of the POPE! ]
BUT...I still prefer a Mountie 22 rifle or the Marlin M39CL to the Remington for all arounds use.

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Thu May 28, 2015 3:10 pm

Better hurry 9 bids $15.76 4hrs to go

Vintage Box of 500 Sheridan 5mm .20 cal Diablo Target Pellets Air Rifle Ammo W Germany

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Box-She ... 43dd15a173..

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Thu May 28, 2015 5:54 pm

Terry Murbach wrote:MY AIR RIFLE is the SHERIDAN BLUE STREAK 5MM and I am here to tell you it is a killin' sumbee. Bought it in 1969 and it has yet to give me a moments problem. IT came with a Williams 5D rear receiver sight installed. The 5MM WC style pellets are really deadly and amazingly accurate. The only problem is I am on the last tin can full from the case I bought with the rifle from the OLD Buckeye Shooters Supply. [ anyone remember them..?] I used it the other day to protect my squirrels and the culprit fell and committed sewerside by running in front of a P/U truck immediately there-after.

Is that a REminton 541-THB ? I have one of those and it is a wonderful bolt action 22 rifle. It averaged 1. 54 MOA at one hundred yards with 32 different 22LR loads, all with ten[10!] shot groups. [ LOAD 6 SHOOT 6 RE-LOAD 4 GET ALL SET BACK UP SHOOT 4 IN THE SAME GROUP....It was enough to try the patience of the POPE! ]
BUT...I still prefer a Mountie 22 rifle or the Marlin M39CL to the Remington for all arounds use.

Remington 541S purchased new in 1978.
For whatever reason, the picture made the barrel look like a heavy.

2571 · Post by **2571** » Thu May 28, 2015 9:17 pm

I volunteer as a RSO at the bb gun range our DNR has at the state fair. They usually bring 2 dozen rifles. After a whole day, we can identify the bad shooters from the good. Identical rifles, purchased simultaneously & directly from the mfg'r. Some of them just belong in the manure shed.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Sun May 31, 2015 8:20 pm

This thread needs more pictures

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Sun May 31, 2015 8:27 pm

Sweet

Bill in Oregon · Post by **Bill in Oregon** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:57 am

Do keep us in the loop Ted. And you are getting good advice about hold. Most springers like to be held as loosely as possible so they can do their forward-backward recoil thing ... Lock them down on a rest and they will always disappoint.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:44 pm

Lost my return authorization info so I have to call them back. Tried twice yesterday and sat on hold for the maximum amount of time until their system put me into their voicemail. It said leave a message and your call will be returned by the end of the business day. It wasn't. Will try again today. Hope that's not a sign of things to come with their service.

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:10 pm

The king and a springer

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:18 pm

The "King" with a "lever springer????" Priceless! I still prefer the Be-at-tles myself. But Elvis had his place. I have a great DVD Audio remix of his tracks, probably out of print now. Think I will put it in right now in the King's honor!

And after that BB King with Eric Clapton.

Regards,

-Tutt

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:46 pm

You know, I have to say, I'm really enjoying this Elvis album! Might be hope for this shooter born in '66!

-Tutt

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:45 am

CowboyTutt wrote:The "King" with a "lever springer????" Priceless! I still prefer the Be-at-tles myself. But Elvis had his place. I have a great DVD Audio remix of his tracks, probably out of print now. Think I will put it in right now in the King's honor!

And after that BB King with Eric Clapton.

Regards,

-Tutt

And with a big boy lever