How to shoot a levergun

[wvfarrier]

Pretty good video on shooting a lever gun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY3dTX3 ... ata_player

[RIHMFIRE]

the one thing he did not tell you is..
you need to install a short stroke kit
which shortens the lever stroke by almost half...

[wvfarrier]

Ya I noticed that too

[BrentD]

Well, I guess that's one way.

It sure has hell ain't my way.

[rossim92]

I ain't short strokin nothing! It's full stroke or no stroke at all.

[mikld]

I've always been leery of "ya gotta shoot it this way" instructions. My handgun shooting was pretty good, but prolly looked stupid (I used a modified "Weaver stance", and I occasionally tried shooting like the "book" said to, but often my groups grew, and one time I drew blood. If all that stuff works for the shooter, then great, and mebbe some new shooter can benefit from a hint or two, but shooting is still pretty individual...

[Homer]

I'll have to try that with my steel butt plated 348 Winchester the next time I launch a full power load in the direction of meat on the hoof.

There are pretend games, and then there is real life - and sometimes they don't mix or cross over.

[Blaine]

Those were very light loads....I saw no hint of recoil

[BrentD]

Personally, I have the same appreciation for that style of shooting that I have for the guys that show up with the 9mm popguns and extended mags and reel off a entire magazine in 5 seconds while holding the gun sideways. Fantasy indeed.

It just ain't what I'm interested in.

[Griff]

For THAT game, it's good advice. But when placement counts, slowin' down & makin' sure will dictate a different stance & technique. Games are good and all, and I love cowboy shootin', but... when it's all done & said, you'll do what you practice. Fast & furious shootin' ain't the end all, be all when the chips are down.

[FWiedner]

I like the way he works, but that ain't my game.

One thing that I could defintely improve on is dropping the butt out of my shoulder after a shot.

I've not yet had to take more than one shot when it counts, but one never knows.

It's always been 'fire for effect', and then evaluate.

What if I had to shoot something twice?

I thought his information on butt placement in the pocket of the shoulder, and excessive lateral or downward pressure on the lever while cycling the action was interesting and vaulable advice that might be used for other than CAS type shooting.

Yeah... fast follow-ups... it's something I need to incorporate into my practice.

[Grizzly Adams]

I'll have to try that with my steel butt plated 348 Winchester the next time I launch a full power load in the direction of meat on the hoof.

There are pretend games, and then there is real life - and sometimes they don't mix or cross over.

And sometimes they do....

Actually, I know Jim Finch, and have talked with him some. I think he can hold his own in real life as well as in the cowboy game.

As for the "meat on the hoof", well I have spent a fair share of my time hunting moose with the 348, but I also know how to run a lever gun for fun.

I would invite any man who thinks what Jim is doing in the video, is not skilled shooting with a lever gun, to give it a try!

[Old Savage]

Well, he is a world champion.

[CowboyTutt]

Hmmm. Worth some dry firing and then taking it down to the range to try at least. I can remember at the Gateway Dynomite Shoot on the Running Dear contest what it felt like to try to get 3 shots on the 8 inch target on the "deer" as it "runs" 50 yards across your field of view at a distance of 35 yards away. Even with my 454 Casull Puma, might be something useful here.

-Tutt

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

I think some of you missed the captions at the 13 second mark that said this is was Cowboy action shooting tips.
If you have never seen this game you may not know the targets are at least 16" sq or larger set at as close a 15 yards but hardly ever more than 40 yards. It's all about speed, precision shooting it's not. At those speeds the rear sight is rarely used and the front is huge, like a large shotgun bead. The key is to work the gun without bobbling the front sight.
Also, notice how short the stock is. The crescent butt plate is gone and the stock is shotgun butt style with a cover but shorter that normal. This allow the elbow to be closed more and tuck to your side to help stable the mount.
None of this is even helpful for quick followup shot if you are shooting long.

here is a full speed example
Deuce Stevens, 1.73

[jeepnik]

I really love it when self proclaimed experts try to tell me how to do things I've been doing for 5 decades. It's sorta like a two year old trying to tell me how to use a hammer. It's generally entertaining to hear all about how good they are.

[FWiedner]

I put some new sights on a 94AE last night to get rid of a scope that I felt was uneeded.

I thought I'd check out the levering tips from above and... it didn't work well for me.

Speed wasn't the issue, short-stroking was. I guess my arms aren't long enought to get the lever all of way through the cycle, or my action isn't "butter smooth".

I drop the butt or raise the muzzle apparently because I have to to get a full stroke on the lever.

Maybe with some practice.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

I put some new sights on a 94AE last night to get rid of a scope that I felt was uneeded.

I thought I'd check out the levering tips from above and... it didn't work well for me.

Speed wasn't the issue, short-stroking was. I guess my arms aren't long enought to get the lever all of way through the cycle, or my action isn't "butter smooth".

I drop the butt or raise the muzzle apparently because I have to to get a full stroke on the lever.

Maybe with some practice.

Cowboy Action shooting is a race and like any race the competitor has to train but more important his equipment has to be a little better than he is. you are just not going to be able to do that with a stock out of the box gun. Expecting to be competitive with an out-of-the-box stock gun is not likely to happen. I've said this many times. "You can take the family sedan to the track once or twice and run he'll out of it, but if you do it on a regular basis, you gonna look up and see you crankshaft in the rear-view mirror."
Race cars have to be tuned to race, and so do guns that are raced.

I really love it when self proclaimed experts try to tell me how to do things I've been doing for 5 decades. It's sorta like a two year old trying to tell me how to use a hammer. It's generally entertaining to hear all about how good they are.

Jeepnik,
Again, unless you are a CAS shooter he wasn't talking to you.

[junkbug]

Do those "race tuned and short stroked" 1873 rifles and carbines become less able to use and withstand full power ammunition? Kind of like the S&W 52, that will only function with 38 Special wadcutter ammo.

I must admit, that rifle looks and sounds slick. I would sure like to run a box of ammo thru one like it. I am not sure I would want to spend 1200-1500 bucks to have one, though. If it couldn't stand loads like an unmodified rifle could take, I wouldn't want to tune it. I also understand that the performance envelope for the 1873 is controversial. Not trying to stir up that hornets nest.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Do those "race tuned and short stroked" 1873 rifles and carbines become less able to use and withstand full power ammunition? Kind of like the S&W 52, that will only function with 38 Special wadcutter ammo.

That's going to depend on how it was done.

I must admit, that rifle looks and sounds slick. I would sure like to run a box of ammo thru one like it. I am not sure I would want to spend 1200-1500 bucks to have one, though. If it couldn't stand loads like an unmodified rifle could take, I wouldn't want to tune it. I also understand that the performance envelope for the 1873 is controversial. Not trying to stir up that hornets nest.

I've had 73's and 66's here that had just minor action work done no short stroke and they were shot so much they headspace had grown. Even with the down loaded CAS 38's. The design has too many moving parts in the lockup and each time you shoot, they wear just slightly

[Malamute]

Some good comments and thoughts Steve.

My first impression of the video was it was applicable to that type rifle used in that type of shooting, not that it was a general recommendation. Trying to apply the technique to a 94 or 86 with bear loads, it just doesn't work the same.

[Griff]

I put some new sights on a 94AE last night to get rid of a scope that I felt was uneeded.

I thought I'd check out the levering tips from above and... it didn't work well for me.

Speed wasn't the issue, short-stroking was. I guess my arms aren't long enought to get the lever all of way through the cycle, or my action isn't "butter smooth".

I drop the butt or raise the muzzle apparently because I have to to get a full stroke on the lever.

Maybe with some practice.

A mdl 94, whether top eject or angle eject is one of the worst rifles for cowboy action shootin'. For it, just like the mdl 1892 doesn't have any way to shorten the stroke of the lever to utilize that style of shootin'.

[FWiedner]

I put some new sights on a 94AE last night to get rid of a scope that I felt was uneeded.

I thought I'd check out the levering tips from above and... it didn't work well for me.

Speed wasn't the issue, short-stroking was. I guess my arms aren't long enought to get the lever all of way through the cycle, or my action isn't "butter smooth".

I drop the butt or raise the muzzle apparently because I have to to get a full stroke on the lever.

Maybe with some practice.

A mdl 94, whether top eject or angle eject is one of the worst rifles for cowboy action shootin'. For it, just like the mdl 1892 doesn't have any way to shorten the stroke of the lever to utilize that style of shootin'.

Heck, I've got little to no interest in cowboy action other than learning something from someone who has a useful knowledge to convey.

My interest is in (a) fast follow-up shot(s) for killing/anchoring things that seem not quite dead enough.

It's a gap in my levergun education that I aim to correct.

[getitdone1]

I liked this video. Some points valid for repeat shots when hunting or self-defense.

Short stroking is something I can see happening to a lot of guys. Even though most lever guns have a short butt stock the reach to full lever throw can be too much for shorter armed people. Of course with enough practice even many of these people can get it done. Shortening butt stock is an option.

I don't expect a bolt gun to have as short of a butt stock and that's the way it should be.

Never like to see a person support a long gun with support hand up close to action. I guess some target shooters shoot this way but not for me. Maybe that was old-timers only.

I never take the butt off of my shoulder for repeat shots with a lever gun. Lots of shooting with a Marlin 39 helped me learn this. Can get you a bad cut if you get trigger finger between bottom of trigger and lever.
I know !

Don

[cshold]

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=y2e_IQGYUzU

[FWiedner]

I 'll note that the young lady's cheek never touches the stock of that levergun.

Is this another one of those advanced cowboy techniques?

[cshold]

Cow'girl' technique

[7.62 Precision]

Don't be too quick to dismiss the techniques as only applicable to cowboy action shooting. If you look past the light loads and cowboy action-tuned rifle, the advice is good, especially for self-defense or certain hunting conditions.

The position of the rifle on the chest and the position of the arm are basically the same as we teach for counter-terror/CQB/self-defense shooting with an M4 or AR. Same reasoning applies. You lock the rifle into position, lock your body into a stable body position, and aim the rifle with your body. It works with light loads, and it is even more important with heavy loads

Long shots may require different shooting positions depending on conditions, but not all shots are long, and many people carry leverguns for self-defense. Sometimes you have to shoot fast. Sometimes you need to defend yourself, and sometimes there are 5 deer right there and you would like to take as many home as possible.

I have used a levergun in self-defense twice. If you saw my body position, it would have been very similar to what you saw in the video. The rifle was a Winchester 71 .348 the first time, and a Winchester 1895 Carbine, .30-40 Krag the second time. With the 1895 I fired 3 rounds in 1.5 seconds at most, and each was a kill shot on the bear. I could never have done that if my body position was wrong.