Land Owners, Part Duex
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- Panzercat
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Land Owners, Part Duex
I have a land problem... of sorts. In fact, our entire community has one mess of a land problem. Some back story to get you up to speed:
My family decided we had enough apartment living at the beginning of the year (see the tie-in? ) and found a nice place on the edge of Phoenix. The house was nice in spite of its '83 build date and featured a newly developed sports park across the street-- Play ground, hoops, skate park and even water features for hot summer days. That alone was a score for our one and a half year old child. The back yard featured a gate that led directly to the fairway of the community golf course that wound through the neighborhood. Ponds, ducks. Honest to God Canadian Geese in Arizona. Property value gold and a great area for the kid to grow up in. We bought it up when the economy was still down. It wasn't a steal, but it didn't break the bank either.
This lasted until October, at which point we were brought up to speed on the neighborhood politics in a rather abrupt manner. The golf course is apparently contested property. Like most golf courses, it is owned by a private entity. When the City of Phoenix annexed the community from Maricopa, it was done so under the provision that an 18 hole golf course is to be maintained as it was built. This was a contractual obligation the LLC entered into and has been maintained for about 20 years.
The land owner now wants out and is petitioning the City of Phoenix with lawyers to release it from its contractual obligation to not only maintain the course, but to plow it under and build more housing on top of it. My backyard view will go from a fairway to somebody's back yard if this manages to be successful. Property values will undoubtedly plummet. Construction will be the bane of our existence for probably the better half of a year.
We're petitioning our council men and women and picketing, but what say you? Anybody with helpful advice? Because Ill tell you this is really going to suck for the entire community if it goes through.
My family decided we had enough apartment living at the beginning of the year (see the tie-in? ) and found a nice place on the edge of Phoenix. The house was nice in spite of its '83 build date and featured a newly developed sports park across the street-- Play ground, hoops, skate park and even water features for hot summer days. That alone was a score for our one and a half year old child. The back yard featured a gate that led directly to the fairway of the community golf course that wound through the neighborhood. Ponds, ducks. Honest to God Canadian Geese in Arizona. Property value gold and a great area for the kid to grow up in. We bought it up when the economy was still down. It wasn't a steal, but it didn't break the bank either.
This lasted until October, at which point we were brought up to speed on the neighborhood politics in a rather abrupt manner. The golf course is apparently contested property. Like most golf courses, it is owned by a private entity. When the City of Phoenix annexed the community from Maricopa, it was done so under the provision that an 18 hole golf course is to be maintained as it was built. This was a contractual obligation the LLC entered into and has been maintained for about 20 years.
The land owner now wants out and is petitioning the City of Phoenix with lawyers to release it from its contractual obligation to not only maintain the course, but to plow it under and build more housing on top of it. My backyard view will go from a fairway to somebody's back yard if this manages to be successful. Property values will undoubtedly plummet. Construction will be the bane of our existence for probably the better half of a year.
We're petitioning our council men and women and picketing, but what say you? Anybody with helpful advice? Because Ill tell you this is really going to suck for the entire community if it goes through.
...Proud owner of the 11.43×23mm automatic using depleted Thorium rounds.
Re: Land Owners, Part Duex
Good luck to you and your neightbors in preserving what you value.
That said, the property belongs to someone else (a private entity, as you say) and they should be able to do with it as they please or whatever is most profitable to their purpose.
I can empathize with you that you bought into something that you hoped might not change.
That said, the property belongs to someone else (a private entity, as you say) and they should be able to do with it as they please or whatever is most profitable to their purpose.
I can empathize with you that you bought into something that you hoped might not change.
Government office attracts the power-mad, yet it's people who just want to be left alone to live life on their own terms who are considered dangerous.
History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
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- Advanced Levergunner
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Re: Land Owners, Part Duex
Have got a feeling that is partly why you got your place reasonable. Whoever sold you the place probably knew this was coming down?
Not a lot of choices here.
1) Just suck it up and let the chips fall where they will
2) move
3) Though sometimes this can result in a can of worms later on, as a community purchase the Golf Course as a community group with each of you owning a piece of the pie and share expense of its cost/maintenance etc.
4)Hire a lawyer as a group and fight it
5)Each of you purchase separately a section of this property and extend your current property.
If it was myself, first thing I would do is go over your deed and the deed of the Golf Course with a fine tooth comb. I would also look into the seller of your property and see if there was proof they had knowledge of this problem prior to sale(ie realtor etc.)Non-disclosure issue. Also be present at any and all meetings involving your town etc.
Just do not let property owner know you people are in panic mode. Fine that he/town knows you as a group are going to resist it being tore down and become residential homes but let him/town know that if has to be that way they will have to meet all new building code issues via homes and property. Worse case fence your yard and let them build as increased tax base offsets some costs.
Very worst thing panic and sell when minds are in a fog and lose you shirts, cause chances are that living on a Golf Course deal was a one time thing and ain't coming around again and next place you go out back will be some neighbors.
Good Luck!
Not a lot of choices here.
1) Just suck it up and let the chips fall where they will
2) move
3) Though sometimes this can result in a can of worms later on, as a community purchase the Golf Course as a community group with each of you owning a piece of the pie and share expense of its cost/maintenance etc.
4)Hire a lawyer as a group and fight it
5)Each of you purchase separately a section of this property and extend your current property.
If it was myself, first thing I would do is go over your deed and the deed of the Golf Course with a fine tooth comb. I would also look into the seller of your property and see if there was proof they had knowledge of this problem prior to sale(ie realtor etc.)Non-disclosure issue. Also be present at any and all meetings involving your town etc.
Just do not let property owner know you people are in panic mode. Fine that he/town knows you as a group are going to resist it being tore down and become residential homes but let him/town know that if has to be that way they will have to meet all new building code issues via homes and property. Worse case fence your yard and let them build as increased tax base offsets some costs.
Very worst thing panic and sell when minds are in a fog and lose you shirts, cause chances are that living on a Golf Course deal was a one time thing and ain't coming around again and next place you go out back will be some neighbors.
Good Luck!
- Old Ironsights
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Re: Land Owners, Part Duex
Buy the golf course and turn it into a gun range. ...
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
Re: Land Owners, Part Duex
45-70 suggestion in the last paragraph, sounds like skullduggery in the sale.
- Panzercat
- Levergunner 3.0
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Re: Land Owners, Part Duex
And I would be of the same mind save the contract they originally entered into.FWiedner wrote:Good luck to you and your neightbors in preserving what you value. That said, the property belongs to someone else (a private entity, as you say) and they should be able to do with it as they please or whatever is most profitable to their purpose.
...Proud owner of the 11.43×23mm automatic using depleted Thorium rounds.
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- Advanced Levergunner
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Re: Land Owners, Part Duex
Nope!FWiedner wrote:That said, the property belongs to someone else (a private entity, as you say) and they should be able to do with it as they please or whatever is most profitable to their purpose.
Though I love freedom as much as anyone when you are dealing with a well populated area where homes are within close proximity there has to be some kind of control. You want privavcy buy a huge chunk of property without any and all restrictions from City, Town, Village post it and control it. Otherwise my man your screwed!
This owner of Golf Course has a lawful contract obligating him to fulfill certain obligations. At the least if by some means he gains the release of contractual obligations via the city he still will have issue with surrounding citizens each bringing a suit singly or jointly against him for the negative devaluation of the citizens homes.
Though more of a drastic reference would be if that owner decided instead of a gulf course he wanted to switch it to a pig farm.
Once you enter into a controlled community,village,or town ordinances apply like em or not.
No Lawyer here JMHO
Also might want to tell the City at the cities board meeting or have your representative do such that if they do pass the release of obligations of Golf Course owner you and other effected citizens will be forced to file suit against the city as well. Most cities are about broke and that high cost of another legal battle could sway initial decision.
And this suit will not be a single owner suit but a CLASS ACTION HIGH END SUIT.
Again just a thought no Lawyer here, JMHO
Gather the troops and at the least pay for a visit to the best Real Estate Trial Lawyer you all can afford for direction.
Law s/b on your side ?
Re: Land Owners, Part Duex
Texas has a disclosure law, meaning you can't sell a house to someone with a fat problem with it without telling em. You might check into it.
Re: Land Owners, Part Duex
Apparently not.madman4750 wrote:Though I love freedom as much as anyone...
Government office attracts the power-mad, yet it's people who just want to be left alone to live life on their own terms who are considered dangerous.
History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
- Old Ironsights
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Re: Land Owners, Part Duex
One does not have the "freedom" to break a Contract without Consequences. In a truly non-authoritarian, Voluntary society if Contracts are not upheld then there is no society... and back we go to the rule of thug vs the contractual obligation.
If the Golf Course Owner is going to (try to) break his contract with the surrounding land owners then he better be preoared to shell out major compensation or lose his property in arbitration. Eithr way, he loses by breaking his contract. Better to sell out to someone who wants to run a golf course per contract.
If the Golf Course Owner is going to (try to) break his contract with the surrounding land owners then he better be preoared to shell out major compensation or lose his property in arbitration. Eithr way, he loses by breaking his contract. Better to sell out to someone who wants to run a golf course per contract.
C2N14... because life is not energetic enough.
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
מנא, מנא, תקל, ופרסין Daniel 5:25-28... Got 7.62?
Not Depressed enough yet? Go read National Geographic, July 1976
Gott und Gewehr mit uns!
Re: Land Owners, Part Duex
Private property is not community property.
The property was annexed by a community. This is often not a voluntary action, and a unilateral contract is not a contract.
One does have the the authority to manage a property as they wish within contractual boundaries.
The issue is: What does the 'contract' say?
The property was annexed by a community. This is often not a voluntary action, and a unilateral contract is not a contract.
One does have the the authority to manage a property as they wish within contractual boundaries.
The issue is: What does the 'contract' say?
Government office attracts the power-mad, yet it's people who just want to be left alone to live life on their own terms who are considered dangerous.
History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
-
- Levergunner 2.0
- Posts: 160
- Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 10:05 pm
- Location: Portland, OR
Re: Land Owners, Part Duex
This is why I will buy no property with deed restrictions or covenants pertaining to a group.
- Panzercat
- Levergunner 3.0
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- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:25 pm
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Re: Land Owners, Part Duex
Trying to find out the specifics because that's probably what its going to come down to.FWiedner wrote:Private property is not community property.
The property was annexed by a community. This is often not a voluntary action, and a unilateral contract is not a contract.
One does have the the authority to manage a property as they wish within contractual boundaries.
The issue is: What does the 'contract' say?
...Proud owner of the 11.43×23mm automatic using depleted Thorium rounds.
- AJMD429
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Re: Land Owners, Part Duex
If you really want control of your neighbor's property, you have to either OWN it, or contract with them for some degree of control.
Nobody has the right to control what their neighbor does with his/her property, otherwise.
Nobody has the right to control what their neighbor does with his/her property, otherwise.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
Re: Land Owners, Part Duex
First, check what the property is zoned for. If it isn't zoned for housing, the owner would need to petition to get it changed. You could then contest the change. Politicians are elected, and your housing are carries a lot more weight than the golf course owner.
There is a large, former navy housing area not too far from me. The navy moved out, and somehow a private developer got the land (hmm, I thought it was supposed to go for community use). The developer wants to build homes, and is prevented by community action. It's been going on for well over a decade. I think the developer would love to get out from under as this has cost him a fortune.
People banding together can have a significant impact.
There is a large, former navy housing area not too far from me. The navy moved out, and somehow a private developer got the land (hmm, I thought it was supposed to go for community use). The developer wants to build homes, and is prevented by community action. It's been going on for well over a decade. I think the developer would love to get out from under as this has cost him a fortune.
People banding together can have a significant impact.
Jeepnik AKA "Old Eyes"
"Go low, go slow and preferably in the dark" The old Sarge (he was maybe 24.
"Freedom is never more that a generation from extinction" Ronald Reagan
"Every man should have at least one good rifle and know how to use it" Dad
"Go low, go slow and preferably in the dark" The old Sarge (he was maybe 24.
"Freedom is never more that a generation from extinction" Ronald Reagan
"Every man should have at least one good rifle and know how to use it" Dad
Re: Land Owners, Part Duex
I am willing to bet...if the course was built in 83
there are arsnic pools below each one of the greens and tees...
I ran into that when redeveloping a course in west palm beach...
there are arsnic pools below each one of the greens and tees...
I ran into that when redeveloping a course in west palm beach...
LETS GO SHOOT'N BOYS