38 wcf and 44 wcf UMC hollow points ?

[EdinCT]

I found about 25 jacketed hollow points for the 38 wcf in some old boxes.They are full jacketed with about a 1/8 inch hole about 3/16th deep.
Anyone ever use one hunting? I know soft points in the 30 wcf open faster than the corlokt hp, I was wondering if these may of been the same.
I know the soft points work well on deer and open fast don't really see what is the advantage they saw with the HP.
I am going to pull one and weigh it,but I have seen them for all the WCFs.

[Mike Armstrong]

I believe that those HPs are the old WHV loading intended for Winchester 1892s and similarly strong rifles, NOT revolvers except perhaps the .38-40 Ruger Blackhawks and custom Contenders. They will also have lighter bullets than ordinary factory .38-40s, I think.

The only time I've ever fired anything in the WHV line was when I was a teenager and fired WHV .38-40s in my Winchester Hiwall .38-40 and in a friend's Colt "New Service"--yeah we COULD read, but when did a teenager ever pay much attention to what a grownup had writ???

No issues with either gun, but the 5 1/2" NS REALLY BARKED! In 1959, nobody outside the military ever wore ear protection, and then only when the "gun" in question was 20mm or bigger. The Hiwall ate the WHVs with aplomb; accurate, too, if I recall.

If you wuz me, I'd keep those old shells for auld lang syne, or sell them to a cartridge collector. Anyway, don't shoot them in your favorite SAA, Kennedy levergun, CLMR, '73, or S&W top break. You might wish you hadn't.

[EdinCT]

Yes Mike I believe you are correct, I shot some of the 32-20s when a teen through a colt revolver Dad had lucky it didn't hurt anything but my hearing.The bullet weighed 145 Grs with a concave base and is loaded over 26.5 grs of a powder that looks similar to IMR 4227. It must be one of the HV loads but the headstamp doesn't reflect it and the box is long gone.

[3leggedturtle]

I have a early 60's Shooter's Bible, sorta remember something like that in it. Wonder If Jesse O. would r+r a Handi-rifle to 38WCF.

[w30wcf]

Ed,
Nice find! If the head stamps REM-UMC? If so, the were called "Hi Speed Mushroom" cartridges.

They came in a 130 gr and later 145 gr. versions in the .38W. Cataloged velocity was 2,000 f.p.s. for both.

There was first a 140 gr and later a 160 gr version in the .44W. Published velocities were 2,000 and 1,980 f.p.s. respectfully.

The bullets were also hollow based to increase the length of the bullet for better accuracy.





w30wcf

[EdinCT]

Yes they are Remington UMC headstamped. We're these for deer hunting? The sectional density seems poor for that load but at 2000 fps it most likely would go through a quartering deer.

[w30wcf]

Ed,
Old REM-UMC catalogs that I have seen don't indicate what they were intended for. I would think for woodchucks and other vermin but they might work ok on deer. You might try firing one into water jugs at 50 yards and see how they hold together.

w30wcf

[EdinCT]

Well I shot one of these mushroom bullets today and all I can say is WOW! I lined up water filled milk jugs and my chrony.
The first two jugs vaporized and so did the bullet! I found 36 gr of the core in the second jug. The core still showed the hollow base but little else. Fragments were thrown into the board the jugs sat on.
Also the chrony said 2045 fps! Not bad for 70 year old ammo.
I don't think they were for deer hunting

[3leggedturtle]

That impressive to say the least. What rifle did you shoot them out of?

[cshold]

Interesting thread, & impressive results

[EdinCT]

A 1892 rifle that was my Grandfathers Hi powered rifle. I wished it was a 30-30 when I was a boy or even a 44 WCF but it is the last rifle I would sell now and as I've said before it kills deer well even with standard loads.

[John in MS]

w30wcf,

Very cool pictures! I envy your comprehensive knowledge of these old calibers!

We can always count on you to contribute valuable information -- thanks very much!

Cool find on those old cartridges -- and I think a .38-40 Win 92 rifle is a very worthwhile
piece, even if they don't get much press.

Take care, and thanks all, for sharing!

John

[w30wcf]

Ed,
Thank you for the report. WOW! They should work well on varmints!

John,
Thank you for the kind words. The cartridge box illustration is one I found on the internet awhile back.

I had the good fortune of obtaining the bullet box on an internet auction site earlier this year. No one else had an interest in it.

w30wcf

[Rusty]

A .38 WCF Handi ??

Now we're talking!