.44spl loads in .44mag cases with 700x

[alnitak]

I understand that 700x is a fast burning powder that is not suited to .44mag. However, the Hodgdon site does provide data for .44 special and 700x, with between 4.3gr and 4.9gr for a 240gr bullet. I have been shooting .44mag cases with reduced loads (to .44 spl levels) in my Trapper and SA pistols for years, using powders such as AA#5, AA#9 and 2400 with excellent results. By using only .44mag cases, I avoid the issue with carbon buildup in the Trapper chamber when using .44 special cases that could lead to seating problems for .44mag cases.

I want to use the same procedure with 700x since I have a lot of that around. Do you see any problem with using mid-range special load in the .44mag case? I have read quite a bit about the Secondary Explosion Effect (SEE), and my understand is that only occurs with slower burning powders at greater than 20% below minimum recommendation. In fact, I found this information on 700x...

"...the ultra-lite loads have been experimented with for a good many years, where a typical powder charge might be 2-3 grains of Bullseye, 700X, Unique, or any faster pistol powder in a .30-06 or .45-70 case. If SEE were a realizable phenomena for fast powders at greatly reduced loading densities, this would certainly have resulted in many blow-ups. "

Given the difference in case length (29mm vs. 32.6mm), which represents only a 12% increase (and corresponding 12% increase in volume, pi x r^2 x h) over the .44spl length, my assumption is that there would be no issue. Am I missing something? Are there other considerations?

[Bronco]

Howdy,

I have shot 5 grs. of Bullseye with a 240 gr. lead bullet in my 44 mag. cases for 40 yrs. for my plinker loads. Never had an issue and lots of fun to shoot.

John

[M. M. Wright]

Not sure I buy into the secondary explosion stuff but if you're worried about it try a tuft of dacron fiber fill. Don't stuff the case, just enough to push it down with a pencil so it will hold the powder against the flash hole. If you chrono the results you will see a much reduced variation in velocities which gives better accuracy. The 700X I have is a Dupont powder but then it is very old, like me.

[alnitak]

The 700X I have is a Dupont powder but then it is very old, like me.

The 700x I have is also older Dupont stuff. I'm assuming the load data on the IMR/Hodgdon site still applies?

I also found interesting the experiments with light 700x loads in .45-70. Might be worth trying...

[C. Cash]

Can't comment on the 700X but experienced your same situation. Because of chambering issues with my son's Marlin 336 Texan, we went with 44 Special Brass when loading the Ranch Dog 265, and used a lighter charge of 2400. Accurate as all get out....somewhat slow but gave complete penetration on a mature Boar and a quick kill. You would have more room with the 240 gr. than we had with the 265 gr. RD. With the 2400, you should notice a double charge situation when you go to seat, or at least it will be much more obvious than with those powders which burn more fast. Just a thought.

[Shasta]

For what it's worth, the Speer Reloading Manual Number 10 shows a 700X load of 5.5 to 6.0 grains for a 240 grain semi-wadcutter bullet in the .44 Magnum.


SHASTA

[alnitak]

For what it's worth, the Speer Reloading Manual Number 10 shows a 700X load of 5.5 to 6.0 grains for a 240 grain semi-wadcutter bullet in the .44 Magnum.

SHASTA

Thanks Shasta! Good info to have.

[piller]

I have used the dacron filler trick before, and it does work. At the range, when I did it to reduce the recoil for PillHer, the rangemaster walked over and watched for a while. After PillHer had placed 15 rounds or so in the bullseye, he just said that it looked as if my handloads were working fine. He also noted that I could probably use a little less dacron as some of it did not fully burn up in the barrel. I tried a little less, and it was fine. Neither accuracy, nor deviation in velocity from shot to shot changed enough to be measureable.

[Old Savage]

What I would do is look at the 700X light loads for a 45 Colt and either use those or figure out how other fast powders reduce from the 45 Colt to the 44 Mag to get the approx velocity I wanted.

[alnitak]

What I would do is look at the 700X light loads for a 45 Colt and either use those or figure out how other fast powders reduce from the 45 Colt to the 44 Mag to get the approx velocity I wanted.

Interesting...in doing that I get this from the Hodgdon site for .45 Colt

230 GR. CAST LRNFP IMR 700-X .452" 1.580" 4.7 771 10,100 PSI 6.0 904 13,500 PSI
250 GR. CAST LRNFP IMR 700-X .452" 1.600" 4.8 765 11,300 PSI 5.7 856 13,200 PSI

So, just for fun, I decided to try .44 mag, and to my surprise they had data:

200 GR. LRNFP CAST IMR 700-X .430" 1.570" no min data 4.3 818 11,700 CUP
200 GR. NOS JHP IMR 700-X .429" 1.600" no min data 10.1 1300 40,000 CUP
220 GR. BERB FP IMR 700-X .430" 1.610" 5.0 717 11,400 PSI 8.4 1085 20,700 PSI
225 GR. SPR JHP IMR 700-X .429" 1.575" no min data 9.8 1235 40,000 CUP
240 GR. LSWC CAST IMR 700-X .430" 1.620" no min data 9.5 1185 40,000 CUP


I was surprised at a max of 9.5gr vs. Shasta's 6.0gr from the Speer manual. Also, what does it mean when there is no minimum posted?

What I'm taking away from all of this is that is will be OK to shoot 5 gr or so of 700x over a 240gr bullet out of .44mag cases. That should leave me some room on the upside to play with (at least a grain, if not 4.5 if the Hodgdon site can be trusted). I'm also probably good to go with lighter loads as well. I've seen a lot of testing done on 3gr of 700x in a .45-70 case over a 300gr bullet (even Paco used 700x for ultra-light loads in .45-70), so it appears that SEE is not a worry with this powder.

Thanks all for the help!

[J Miller]

I have used 700X in the .45 Colt a lot. The one thing I've found is that the posted velocities for the loads listed in the DuPont and IMR data pamphlets are a fantasy. They don't come any where near what the books say.

It is a very very accurate powder and when loaded up to the levels called for in the older Speer manuals produces a nice factory level load.

I have no experience with the .44s so I can't comment on them, other than to say use much caution with extrapolating data from the .45 Colt.

Joe

[jdt]

I have used 700x for years in my 45 Colt.
Years ago I was working up a light plinker load that my boys could shoot too.
After trying various powders (red dot, Bullseye, Unique, 700x) with a 200 gr SWC, the 700x produced better accuracy than the others (mith my gun and that particular bullet).
I use 7 gr. The only problem is lots of blowback (either from too light a load or the oversized bore on my Blackhawk). But they are accurate and so fun to shoot that I keep making them. I frequently find unburned powder when ejecting the cases but never anything to suggest what you describe.
Oh, and the brass seem to last forever. Some have over well over 10 reloads on them.

[Chuck 100 yd]

No minimum charge shown means "Do not reduce"

Speer shows ,in several places in their load manual, No minimum charge shown means
" do not reduce or a stuck bullet could happen in revolvers with oversize bores and or large
cylinder to barrel gap" . I believe them.

Have fun!