[This account was written a while back and made use of an article found here. At the time, I was unaware of the forum section of this site. It is important to read through the entirety of the account as some things are elaborated on as I dug up more.]
I appreciate the kind words. Ain't this a spectacle? We have a lot of stuff here in what is really a short time, 4 months. We haven't scratched the surface. I hope to get to some Indian Wars stories and some mountain man tales. I also won't to do some stories on Cassidy and the Wild Bunch concerning individual robberies. Same with Jesse James. There is just an almost never ending supply of material.
I'm going to try to get together something on Tom Horn. A fascinating character, a true westerner by his lifestyle. Left his Missouri home at 14 and never looked back. He was indeed, as I have typed of many of these folks, the REAL thing. From a scout under AL Sieber- interpreting for Geronimo and scouting during the Apache War-to a Pinkerton detective, to enlisting in the Army to fight in the Spanish-American War (just as ship was leaving from Tampa heading to Cuba, Horn contracted malaria and was not sent). Finally a range detective. . .
I will never find the book in which I read this, but I believe it was from, Al Sieber's report on an outlaw they captured [Edit: It wasn't Sieber, and the outlaw was "Peg Leg" Watson.]. He told of how they had the killer's cabin surrounded at daybreak on a bitterly cold morning in the mountains and how that the outlaw refused to come out and then how that Horn threw his Winchester into the crook of his arm and walked right out in front of the cabin oblivious to fire and then brought the man out. Exact words, as I recall were, "It took cold courage to do what Horn did, that day."
Indeed.
Make no mistake he was a SPOOKY kind of fellow there was some darkness there. He was kind of like that friend that we all have who is good as gold to us but we always know he has a darkness about him. This was Tom Horn.
Tom Horn
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Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Re: Tom Horn
We are going to examine whether Horn murdered the 14 year old son of Kels Nickell, Willie.
Some of Horn's testimony during his trial for his life in the Willie Nickell murder case. . . the exchange here is between Tom and prosecutor Stoll:
STOLL. State your name, occupation and residence.
HORN. My name is Tom Horn; I suppose my occupation is that of a detective, as near as I can get at it. When I am at home I reside at Mr. Coble’s ranch in Albany County; that has been my home for a number of years.
STOLL. Mr. Horn, we understand that you have been up around this section of the country a good deal and have laid around the hills a good deal of the time and have had an opportunity to observe people, things etc. We would like know if there is anything you can tell us about the killing of Willie Nickell. If you saw anything or recollect around there at that time?
HORN: I was in the country just prior to the killing of that kid a day or two.
STOLL. Do you know what day he was killed?
HORN: No, I do not.
STOLL. It was Thursday the eighteenth of July?
HORN. Now, I will tell you I don’t know about the dates, but I know on Monday of the week on which he was killed, on Monday morning, whatever date that was, I left Billy Clay’s....
I went over to Miller’s ranch.... I went to the head of a hay valley this Monday and went to Miller’s ranch Monday night.
“...my business was ended...”
I was there all day Tuesday, and on Tuesday I went up [i.e., to the west] to the head of the creek that Miller lives on. Passed down to where Nickell [might have] had his sheep in Johnny Coble’s pasture. I went up there and found they hadn’t [the sheep had not gone into Coble’s pasture] and my business was ended. I went back to the Miller’s ranch and stayed there again that night. That was Tuesday night; I left there Wednesday morning.
STOLL. The kid was killed Thursday, did you say?
HORN. Yes, sir. I left there Wednesday morning; it was along before the middle of the forenoon after I got breakfast.
STOLL. Up to this time did you see any stranger in that locality, anybody riding along?
HORN. No, sir.
STOLL. Did you know Willie Nickell yourself?
HORN. I don’t believe I ever saw him. I know Nick [Kels] very well himself but I don’t think I ever saw any member of his family, only at a distance.
STOLL. Are you acquainted with the Miller family?
HORN. The family I do not know at all, only as I met them that night. I met Jim Miller before over on the [Laramie] Plains. I met him one evening, he and Whitman. Coble and myself got there in the springtime ?? the river was up pretty well ?? and went over to the Bosler Station to get a barrel of beer. We got it and came back. That was the first time I ever see him. He invited me to visit if I ever come through that part of the country. I happened to have a little business in there and I called....STOLL. When you went away Wednesday, which way did you go?
HORN. I went down the river [toward the southeast] and up to what we call Colcord Place [a pasture owned by the Two Bar, one?half mile east of Nickell’s land]. I thought maybe the sheep might be in there. I pulled across through the hills over on the head of the Sybille. This is the time [of year] you shift the cows outside.... I have been doing that except six or seven days. I was [going] in[to] Laramie to see Colonel Bill [sic]….
That ends the snippet.
Here is another snippet with fair commentary from the wyomingtailsandtrails.com site:
"Horn took the stand in his own defense. The cross-examination by the prosecutor, Walter Stoll, was devasting. Statement by statement, Horn admitted making the various statements testified to by LeFors, Snow and Ohnhaus with the exception of one statement which Horn did not remember but conceded he might have made. Stoll asked Horn relating to some alleged statements made in Denver:
Q. At that time, I am not asking to reflect on you in anyway, were you in a condition to remember whether you had these conversations with these men or not?
A. I remember everthing [sic] that occurred to me in my life.
Q. You have never been so much under the influence of liquor as to not remember what you said?
A. Not if I could talk.
Yet, in addition to the statement he could not remember, time and time again, Horn could not remember things:
Q. Did you have on your straw hat in riding from Coble's ranch down to Laramie City on July 20th, or do you remember how you were dressed?
A. I don't remember.
Q. You do remember distinctly that you did not see anyone on the way down?
A. I don't remember distinctly that I didn't see anyone; I don't remember of seeing anyone.
Witnesses had testified that they saw Horn on the road to Laramie City.
Horn contended that his confession was a "josh;" it was merely an exchange of wild tales. Slowly and inexorably through a plethora of witnesses, Stoll destroyed Horn's defenses and alibis. 1901 Frontier Day Bronco Champion 24-year old Otto Plaga testified that an hour after the time of the killing, Horn was 17 or 18 miles miles from the Nickell Ranch. Horn destroyed this alibi by admitting that he could easily have made it to where Plaga said he was following the killing. The witnesses admitted that although Horn had been drinking, Horn was in control of himself. Dr. Barber admitted he could not say that the wounds were not inflicted with a 30-30.
Other alibi witnesses placed Horn in a different location from that where Horn said he was. And yet others placed Horn at the Miller Ranch 3 or 4 miles from the Nickell Ranch for several days before the killing and at the William Clay Ranch just to the north of the Nickell spread. The owner of the Elkhorn Barn admitted that the time of check-in of Pacer at the livery in Laramie City was filled out on the registration form when Horn checked out. Horn could have made it to Laramie City following the killing. Various witnesses testified that Horn's horse was in a lather, covered with sweat, as if ridden hard. Further doubt as to the "Pacer" defense was created by testimony that in addition to Pacer Horn was also riding a CAP brand horse named "Cap." Witnesses were adduced that Horn left a sweater in a shoe store in Laramie City which was covered with dirt. The owner and the clerk were so sure that the individual leaving the sweater was Horn that they mailed it to Horn at the Laramie County Jail care-of Sheriff Smalley.
At the conclusion of the two-week trial, on October 24, 1902, at 4:20 p.m., the jury foreman called to the bailiff telling him that the jury had reached a verdict. Seventeen minutes later, with the jury in the box, the verdict was read."
I have read the entirety of Horn's testimony and it seems to me that he was a bit arrogant but was often a bit too honest as well. A guy puts me 17-18 from the scene of the crime, I'm not going to contradict him, you know?
Let us get Tom's confession out on the table or at least an agreed on characterization of it with some of the more infamous quotes:
"On Saturday, January 11, 1902, Horn met with LeFors in Cheyenne and the two engaged in conversation. Unbeknownst to Horn, two witnesses were secreted in the next room: a short hand stenographer, Charles Olnhaus, and Laramie County Deputy Sheriff, Leslie Snow. Olnhaus would later serve as Clerk of the United States District Court. During the course of conversations over two days, Horn allegedly admitted that he killed Nickell with his Winchester Model 1894 30-30 rifle and placed a stone under Nickell's head as his "sign." Horn told LeFors that he, Horn, had been paid in advance and received $2,100 for killing three men and taking five shots at another. He told LeFors that the reason there were no footprints is that he was barefoot. LeFors asked whether Horn had carried the shells away, to which Horn responded: "You bet your [expletive deleted] life I did." Additionally, Horn admitted to the unsolved murder of William Lewis and Fred Powell near Iron Mountain in 1895. On Monday, January 13, Horn was arrested in the bar of the Inter-Ocean Hotel by Laramie County Sheriff Edwin J. Smalley, accompanied by Deputy Sheriff Richard A. Proctor and Chyenne Chief of Police Sandy McNeil. Deputy United States Marshal Joe LeFors watched."
Further:
"He also calmly told LeFors how he shot the Nickell boy at three hundred yards and called it "the best shot that I ever made and the dirtiest trick I have ever done ... killing is my specialty ... I look on it as a business ..."
Now, upon what was this "confession" or confession predicated?
Greed? Likely
Alcohol? YES
And plenty of chewing tobacco
Not sure that affected the outcome but it's true.
Nickell's ranch house/cabin:
Looking from the Iron Mountain Post Office toward the Nickell's ranch:
Sixteenth Street in downtown Cheyenne, around 1902. The U.S. marshal's office was inside the second-story bay window in the building at the left. Wyoming Tales and Trails.
Greed:
Horn had been on a various drinking sprees as was his custom, Deputy U.S. Marshal Joe LeFors was well aware of this. The two men had met up and discussed the murder on at least two occasions prior to Horn meeting with him for the last time, the the two day "interview". It was really two days of drunken bragging baited on by LeFors.
Horn did some short cattle drives/cowboying during the late summer. But, from late September to late December Horn had stayed with his great friend John Coble a rancher of some means at the time. Coble very much admired Tom for his frontiersman toughness.
At that time Coble was asked to present the following letter to Tom, by LeFors:
Miles City, Montana
Dec. 28th 1901
Joe LeFors Esq.
Cheyenne
Friend Joe
I want a good man to do some secret work. And want a man that I can trust. And he will have to be a man not known in this country. The nature of this, there is a gang over on the Big Moon River that are stealing cattle and we purpose [propose] to fit the man out as a wolfer and let him go into that country (and wolf).
And if he is the right kind of man he can soon get in with the gang. He will have to be a man that can take care of himself in any kind of country.
The pay will be $125.00 per month and I believe a man can make good wages besides.
Joe if you know of anyone who you think will fill the place let me know. There will be several months work.
Yours Truly
W. D. Smith
P.S. Man will have to report in Helena.
Horn responded immediately:
Iron Mountain Ranch Company
Bosler Wyoming
Jan. 1st 1902
Joe LeFors Esq.
Cheyenne, Wyoming
Dear Joe,
Recd yours from W. D. Smith Miles City Mont. by Johnny Coble today. I would like to take up that work and I feel sure I can give Mr. Smith satisfaction. I don’t care how big or bad his men are or how many of them there are, I can handle them. They can scarcely be any worse than the Brown’s Hole Gang and I stopped cow stealing there in one summer. If Mr. Smith cares to give me the work I would like to meet them as soon as commencement so as to get into the country and get located before Summer.
The wages $125.00 per month will be all satisfactory to me. Put me in communication with Mr. Smith whom I know well by reputation and I can guarantee him the recommendation of every cow man in the State of Wyoming in this line of work.
You may write Mr. Smith for me that I can handle his work and do it with less expense in the shape of lawyer and witness fees than any man in the business.
Joe you yourself know what my reputation is although we have never been out together.
Yours truly
Tom Horn
So, the trap was baited and Tom took the bait. Greed and a desire to get away from it all were motivations for Tom. His letters of the time make it clear that he sees the old ways as being phased out and his own extinction nearing.
How'd you like to own those two letters presented above!?
LeFors was the guy in Butch Cassidy's (Paul Newman's) question, "Who are those guys?"
Horn was a full on cowboy/scout/killer legend. I haven't mentioned this but evidently he was a rodeo champ as well. . .
With Arizona Charlie a showman and rodeo fellow. Arizona stood 6' 4 1/2" tall, Horn was a huge for the time 6'2", this photo is not 100% but it is believed to be a likeness of Tom Horn from around 1886:
Arizona Charlie at show/rodeo:
It seems a reasonable place to mention a few things about Tom Horn to give some more of a backdrop. Stay tuned. We'll go through some background information and then review the sparse but fairly powerful circumstantial evidence. After that, we'll look at the case in a semi-analytic way and leave it to your own speculation as to guilt or innocence, and I'll tell you what became of Tom's loyal friend John Coble.
Some of Horn's testimony during his trial for his life in the Willie Nickell murder case. . . the exchange here is between Tom and prosecutor Stoll:
STOLL. State your name, occupation and residence.
HORN. My name is Tom Horn; I suppose my occupation is that of a detective, as near as I can get at it. When I am at home I reside at Mr. Coble’s ranch in Albany County; that has been my home for a number of years.
STOLL. Mr. Horn, we understand that you have been up around this section of the country a good deal and have laid around the hills a good deal of the time and have had an opportunity to observe people, things etc. We would like know if there is anything you can tell us about the killing of Willie Nickell. If you saw anything or recollect around there at that time?
HORN: I was in the country just prior to the killing of that kid a day or two.
STOLL. Do you know what day he was killed?
HORN: No, I do not.
STOLL. It was Thursday the eighteenth of July?
HORN. Now, I will tell you I don’t know about the dates, but I know on Monday of the week on which he was killed, on Monday morning, whatever date that was, I left Billy Clay’s....
I went over to Miller’s ranch.... I went to the head of a hay valley this Monday and went to Miller’s ranch Monday night.
“...my business was ended...”
I was there all day Tuesday, and on Tuesday I went up [i.e., to the west] to the head of the creek that Miller lives on. Passed down to where Nickell [might have] had his sheep in Johnny Coble’s pasture. I went up there and found they hadn’t [the sheep had not gone into Coble’s pasture] and my business was ended. I went back to the Miller’s ranch and stayed there again that night. That was Tuesday night; I left there Wednesday morning.
STOLL. The kid was killed Thursday, did you say?
HORN. Yes, sir. I left there Wednesday morning; it was along before the middle of the forenoon after I got breakfast.
STOLL. Up to this time did you see any stranger in that locality, anybody riding along?
HORN. No, sir.
STOLL. Did you know Willie Nickell yourself?
HORN. I don’t believe I ever saw him. I know Nick [Kels] very well himself but I don’t think I ever saw any member of his family, only at a distance.
STOLL. Are you acquainted with the Miller family?
HORN. The family I do not know at all, only as I met them that night. I met Jim Miller before over on the [Laramie] Plains. I met him one evening, he and Whitman. Coble and myself got there in the springtime ?? the river was up pretty well ?? and went over to the Bosler Station to get a barrel of beer. We got it and came back. That was the first time I ever see him. He invited me to visit if I ever come through that part of the country. I happened to have a little business in there and I called....STOLL. When you went away Wednesday, which way did you go?
HORN. I went down the river [toward the southeast] and up to what we call Colcord Place [a pasture owned by the Two Bar, one?half mile east of Nickell’s land]. I thought maybe the sheep might be in there. I pulled across through the hills over on the head of the Sybille. This is the time [of year] you shift the cows outside.... I have been doing that except six or seven days. I was [going] in[to] Laramie to see Colonel Bill [sic]….
That ends the snippet.
Here is another snippet with fair commentary from the wyomingtailsandtrails.com site:
"Horn took the stand in his own defense. The cross-examination by the prosecutor, Walter Stoll, was devasting. Statement by statement, Horn admitted making the various statements testified to by LeFors, Snow and Ohnhaus with the exception of one statement which Horn did not remember but conceded he might have made. Stoll asked Horn relating to some alleged statements made in Denver:
Q. At that time, I am not asking to reflect on you in anyway, were you in a condition to remember whether you had these conversations with these men or not?
A. I remember everthing [sic] that occurred to me in my life.
Q. You have never been so much under the influence of liquor as to not remember what you said?
A. Not if I could talk.
Yet, in addition to the statement he could not remember, time and time again, Horn could not remember things:
Q. Did you have on your straw hat in riding from Coble's ranch down to Laramie City on July 20th, or do you remember how you were dressed?
A. I don't remember.
Q. You do remember distinctly that you did not see anyone on the way down?
A. I don't remember distinctly that I didn't see anyone; I don't remember of seeing anyone.
Witnesses had testified that they saw Horn on the road to Laramie City.
Horn contended that his confession was a "josh;" it was merely an exchange of wild tales. Slowly and inexorably through a plethora of witnesses, Stoll destroyed Horn's defenses and alibis. 1901 Frontier Day Bronco Champion 24-year old Otto Plaga testified that an hour after the time of the killing, Horn was 17 or 18 miles miles from the Nickell Ranch. Horn destroyed this alibi by admitting that he could easily have made it to where Plaga said he was following the killing. The witnesses admitted that although Horn had been drinking, Horn was in control of himself. Dr. Barber admitted he could not say that the wounds were not inflicted with a 30-30.
Other alibi witnesses placed Horn in a different location from that where Horn said he was. And yet others placed Horn at the Miller Ranch 3 or 4 miles from the Nickell Ranch for several days before the killing and at the William Clay Ranch just to the north of the Nickell spread. The owner of the Elkhorn Barn admitted that the time of check-in of Pacer at the livery in Laramie City was filled out on the registration form when Horn checked out. Horn could have made it to Laramie City following the killing. Various witnesses testified that Horn's horse was in a lather, covered with sweat, as if ridden hard. Further doubt as to the "Pacer" defense was created by testimony that in addition to Pacer Horn was also riding a CAP brand horse named "Cap." Witnesses were adduced that Horn left a sweater in a shoe store in Laramie City which was covered with dirt. The owner and the clerk were so sure that the individual leaving the sweater was Horn that they mailed it to Horn at the Laramie County Jail care-of Sheriff Smalley.
At the conclusion of the two-week trial, on October 24, 1902, at 4:20 p.m., the jury foreman called to the bailiff telling him that the jury had reached a verdict. Seventeen minutes later, with the jury in the box, the verdict was read."
I have read the entirety of Horn's testimony and it seems to me that he was a bit arrogant but was often a bit too honest as well. A guy puts me 17-18 from the scene of the crime, I'm not going to contradict him, you know?
Let us get Tom's confession out on the table or at least an agreed on characterization of it with some of the more infamous quotes:
"On Saturday, January 11, 1902, Horn met with LeFors in Cheyenne and the two engaged in conversation. Unbeknownst to Horn, two witnesses were secreted in the next room: a short hand stenographer, Charles Olnhaus, and Laramie County Deputy Sheriff, Leslie Snow. Olnhaus would later serve as Clerk of the United States District Court. During the course of conversations over two days, Horn allegedly admitted that he killed Nickell with his Winchester Model 1894 30-30 rifle and placed a stone under Nickell's head as his "sign." Horn told LeFors that he, Horn, had been paid in advance and received $2,100 for killing three men and taking five shots at another. He told LeFors that the reason there were no footprints is that he was barefoot. LeFors asked whether Horn had carried the shells away, to which Horn responded: "You bet your [expletive deleted] life I did." Additionally, Horn admitted to the unsolved murder of William Lewis and Fred Powell near Iron Mountain in 1895. On Monday, January 13, Horn was arrested in the bar of the Inter-Ocean Hotel by Laramie County Sheriff Edwin J. Smalley, accompanied by Deputy Sheriff Richard A. Proctor and Chyenne Chief of Police Sandy McNeil. Deputy United States Marshal Joe LeFors watched."
Further:
"He also calmly told LeFors how he shot the Nickell boy at three hundred yards and called it "the best shot that I ever made and the dirtiest trick I have ever done ... killing is my specialty ... I look on it as a business ..."
Now, upon what was this "confession" or confession predicated?
Greed? Likely
Alcohol? YES
And plenty of chewing tobacco
Not sure that affected the outcome but it's true.Nickell's ranch house/cabin:
Looking from the Iron Mountain Post Office toward the Nickell's ranch:
Sixteenth Street in downtown Cheyenne, around 1902. The U.S. marshal's office was inside the second-story bay window in the building at the left. Wyoming Tales and Trails.
Greed:
Horn had been on a various drinking sprees as was his custom, Deputy U.S. Marshal Joe LeFors was well aware of this. The two men had met up and discussed the murder on at least two occasions prior to Horn meeting with him for the last time, the the two day "interview". It was really two days of drunken bragging baited on by LeFors.
Horn did some short cattle drives/cowboying during the late summer. But, from late September to late December Horn had stayed with his great friend John Coble a rancher of some means at the time. Coble very much admired Tom for his frontiersman toughness.
At that time Coble was asked to present the following letter to Tom, by LeFors:
Miles City, Montana
Dec. 28th 1901
Joe LeFors Esq.
Cheyenne
Friend Joe
I want a good man to do some secret work. And want a man that I can trust. And he will have to be a man not known in this country. The nature of this, there is a gang over on the Big Moon River that are stealing cattle and we purpose [propose] to fit the man out as a wolfer and let him go into that country (and wolf).
And if he is the right kind of man he can soon get in with the gang. He will have to be a man that can take care of himself in any kind of country.
The pay will be $125.00 per month and I believe a man can make good wages besides.
Joe if you know of anyone who you think will fill the place let me know. There will be several months work.
Yours Truly
W. D. Smith
P.S. Man will have to report in Helena.
Horn responded immediately:
Iron Mountain Ranch Company
Bosler Wyoming
Jan. 1st 1902
Joe LeFors Esq.
Cheyenne, Wyoming
Dear Joe,
Recd yours from W. D. Smith Miles City Mont. by Johnny Coble today. I would like to take up that work and I feel sure I can give Mr. Smith satisfaction. I don’t care how big or bad his men are or how many of them there are, I can handle them. They can scarcely be any worse than the Brown’s Hole Gang and I stopped cow stealing there in one summer. If Mr. Smith cares to give me the work I would like to meet them as soon as commencement so as to get into the country and get located before Summer.
The wages $125.00 per month will be all satisfactory to me. Put me in communication with Mr. Smith whom I know well by reputation and I can guarantee him the recommendation of every cow man in the State of Wyoming in this line of work.
You may write Mr. Smith for me that I can handle his work and do it with less expense in the shape of lawyer and witness fees than any man in the business.
Joe you yourself know what my reputation is although we have never been out together.
Yours truly
Tom Horn
So, the trap was baited and Tom took the bait. Greed and a desire to get away from it all were motivations for Tom. His letters of the time make it clear that he sees the old ways as being phased out and his own extinction nearing.
How'd you like to own those two letters presented above!?
LeFors was the guy in Butch Cassidy's (Paul Newman's) question, "Who are those guys?"
Horn was a full on cowboy/scout/killer legend. I haven't mentioned this but evidently he was a rodeo champ as well. . .
With Arizona Charlie a showman and rodeo fellow. Arizona stood 6' 4 1/2" tall, Horn was a huge for the time 6'2", this photo is not 100% but it is believed to be a likeness of Tom Horn from around 1886:
Arizona Charlie at show/rodeo:
It seems a reasonable place to mention a few things about Tom Horn to give some more of a backdrop. Stay tuned. We'll go through some background information and then review the sparse but fairly powerful circumstantial evidence. After that, we'll look at the case in a semi-analytic way and leave it to your own speculation as to guilt or innocence, and I'll tell you what became of Tom's loyal friend John Coble.
Re: Tom Horn
Okay, tonight I'm going to post up some flash quotes and recollections from folks who were there; folks who knew Tom Horn.
The Governor of Wyoming via Mr. Irvine, via Mr. Penrose's "Recollections":
In 1914, Philadelphia physician Charles Penrose, who briefly accompanied the 1892 invasion of Johnson County but left before the killing began, wrote his recollections. Penrose included a vivid description of Horn as he was in 1895, as told to him by W. C. “Billy” Irvine, president of the Wyoming Stock Growers Association during the 1890s.
At the time, Wyoming Governor W.A. Richards was experiencing cattle thefts on his own ranges in northwest Wyoming. As Penrose recounts Irvine’s story, Richards and Irvine encountered each other walking toward the Capitol, where both the governor and the S[t]ock Growers Association had offices at the time:
When we reached the building he said, “Come into my office; I want to see you.” He immediately laid his troubles at the ranch before me [Irvine told Penrose], and we discussed the situation quite fully.
He finally said he would like to meet Tom Horn, but hesitated to have him come to the Governor’s office. I said, “Stroll in my office at the other end of the hall at three o’clock this afternoon, and I will have him there….” [At the meeting] the Governor was quite nervous, so was I, Horn perfectly cool. He talked generally, was careful of his ground; he told the Governor he would either drive every rustler out of Big Horn County, or take no pay other than $350 advanced to buy two horses and a pack outfit. When he had finished the job to the Governor’s satisfaction, he should receive $5,000, because, he said in conclusion, “whenever everything else fails, I have a system which never does.” He placed no limit on the number of men to be gotten rid of. This almost stunned the Governor. He immediately showed an inclination to shorten the interview.... [After Horn left] the Governor said to me, “So that is Tom Horn! A very different man from what I expected to meet. Why, he is not bad‑looking, and is quite intelligent; but a cool devil, ain’t he?”
Tom awaits death. . . hand braided "twisted horsehair lead rope"
The end of the world for "Texas Matt" Rash and "****** Isom" Dart:
"In Brown's Hole a former Texas cowboy, Matt Rash established a small ranch. Rash left Texas at age of 12. He later worked for the Middlesex Cattle Co. After it failed, he worked for the Circle K. Rash then established his own Ranch in Brown's Hole. where his initial stock came from is unknown, but his credit was good enough that he was able to borrow sufficient funds from the First National Bank of Rock Springs to expand his herds. Later he purchased additional lands. Bovine Kings and small settlers do not mix. One year along the Yampa, large ranches had placed so many cattle that they ground the grass to dust. Nevertheless large numbers of Two Bar cattle attempted to overwhelm the valley. Later, Haley in one effort to drive out the settlers, drove 5,000 head into Brown's Hole. In retaliation, some of Haley's cattle were driven off a cliff over the Green River to drown below. Others in the valley attempted to resolve the problem by doing away with grass by raising sheep. Nevertheless, Haley's cattle persisted in their efforts to be absorbed into local herds. Haley on roundups would not, contrary to usual practice, provide food for reps of other outfits or allow their bedrolls to be carried on his hoodlum wagons.
Soon, warnings similar to those which had previously appeared along the Upper Chug began to appear advising various individuals to leave the area.
On July 8, 1900, a tall stranger going by the name of "James Hicks," shared a meal with Matt Rash at his cabin in Brown's Hole. Hicks earlier in the year had worked for Rash on the spring roundup. After participating in Rash's hospitality, Hicks arose from the supper table and left Rash's cabin. Shortly thereafter Rash emerged from his cabin and was killed with a single shot. Rash's mare was also killed. Rash had managed to crawl back into the cabin and his bunk. There before dying, he unsuccessfully attempted to write a massage on the back of an enveloe using his own blood as ink. Rash was engaged to be married a nearby rancher, Ann Bassett. Bassett accused Hicks to his face of having murdered Rash. Hicks and neighbors laughed the accusation off. The murder went unsolved.
Three months later on October 4, 1900, Isom Dart (also spelled "Isham"), emerged from a cabin he was sharing with six others. A shot rang out, and Dart fell dead. The culprit was never seen by the occupants of the cabin. The next day, two 30-30 shells were found at the base of a tree where it was believed that the murderer had lain in wait. Hicks was the only one in the area to use a 30-30. Dart was popularly believed to be a rustler named Ned Huddleston, the sole survivor of the "Tip Gault" gang. The gang, which had rustled cattle in the Saratoga area, was wiped out in a gun battle. Huddleston had survived only because he was out of camp that night. Dart was also suspected of rustling, having had three indictments returned against him in Sweetwater County. No conviction, however, ever resulted. It is believed that Dart used a method of wet branding to obscure prior brands. Wet branding involved putting a wet gunny sack on a branding iron over the prior brand. The previous brand will then be scalded and when the scab forms, the ridges from the prior brand will come off with the scab."
James Hicks=Tom Horn, of course.
EXACTLY how Horn worked, he moved in, got the lay of the land and surveyed people and their routine movement over that land. He then issued warnings anonymously to the rustlers and after they ignored them, he executed them. That is just a prominent example. He did the same OFTEN. The seminal "Wild Bunch" historian, Charles Kelly, entitled his chapter on Horn, "One Man Army". Indeed.
During his years with the Pinkertons, multiple sources claim he killed 17 men. Maybe so; likely so. He left the Pinkertons after being accused of being involved in a robbery. "Toms separation from the Pinkertons was not due to his use of deadly force, but rather that he was accused of committing a robbery in Nevada, while in the agency’s employment. In a book by a Charlie Siringo’s he quotes “William A. Pinkerton told me that Tom Horn was guilty of the crime, but that his people could not allow him to go to prison while in their employ.” Tom Horn’s tracking abilities and the fact that he was a very talented agent could not hide the fact he ha a dark side that could be easily accessed."
Adios rustlers, Rash left; Dart right:
Dart's Cabin:
Read this VERY carefully! These are the exact words of Tom Horn discussing chasing some bandits, one of which was the NOTORIOUS outlaw known as "Peg-Leg" Watson.
"Eventually all the sheriffs posses quit and then Mr.
W. A. Pinkerton and Mr. McParland told Shores and me
to go at em. We took up the trail where I had left it
several days before and we never left it till we got the
robbers.
They had crossed the Sangre de Cristo range, come
down by the Villa Grove iron mines, and crossed back
to the east side of the Sangre de Cristos at Mosca pass,
then on down through the Huerfano Canon, out by Cu-
charas, thence down east of Trinidad. They had dropped
into Clayton, N. M., and got into a shooting scrape there
in a gin mill. They then turned east again toward the
"Neutral Strip" and close to Beaver City, then across
into the "Pan Handle" by a place in Texas called Ochil-
tree, the county seat of Ochiltree county. They then
headed toward the Indian Territory, and crossed into it
below Canadian City. They then swung in on the head
of the Washita River in the Territory, and kept down
this river for a long distance.
We finally saw that we were getting close to them,
as we got in the neighborhood of Paul s Valley. At
Washita station we located one of them in the house of
a man by the name of Wolfe. The robber s name was
Burt Curtis. Shores took this one and came on back to
Denver, leaving me to get the other one if ever he came
back to Wolfe s.
After several days of waiting on my part, he did
come back, and as he came riding up to the house I
stepped out and told him some one had come! He was
"Peg Leg" Watson, and considered by every one in Colo
rado as a very desperate character. I had no trouble
with him. "
Did you read that last sentence? "I had no trouble with him." Well, here's the truth.
"In one noted encounter with in the notorious Hole-in-the-Wall bastion, Horn single-handedly captured a bandit known as Peg Leg Watson (alias McCoy). Watson had robbed a mail train with his gang and Horn had discovered him [after days of tracking that defied belief! Horn could track a snake across pine needles! See above in his account where his partner had taken one outlaw back, already.] living [hiding] in a lonely cabin high in the hills."
At first light, Horn yelled for Peg Leg to give up. Peg Leg reportedly laughed and swung open the door with two sixshooters cocked and primed, he stepped into the doorway. Horn as cool as any man who ever lived, emerged from behind a boulder with his Winchester in the crook of his arm but clearly ready to rain death if need be. The man never missed a step, walked steady toward the two cannons and never lost eye contact with Peg Leg. It froze him. Peg Leg later told others that Horn's courage shook him. Horn disarmed him and took him in. BADAXX!
One of Tom's earlier tasks was that of civilian tracker and interpreter for the US Army: Here is an image of talks with General Crook and Geronimo in Mexico. Horn was there. Some say it is Horn's arm and leg shown at the far left of this image:
Tom Horn was also prominent in the "Johnson County War" where cattle barons/bullies and homesteaders/rustlers, faced off, as usual. This occurred in April 1892 in Johnson County, Wyoming. The "Wyoming Stock Growers Association" brought in a group of "regulators" to take out 70 ranchers or rustlers, depending on your point of view. Horn is generally credited with being one of the four shooters who took out the very popular and well liked Nate Champion. There were several men who fired heavily on the small group of ranchers, upwards of 50. Four "ranchers" were present at Champion's place; the BRAVE Nate Champion kept a journal during the battle, here are the words of a real cowboy who knew how to use a sixgun, as a matter of fact I have read that he alone killed four of the "regulators":
"Me and Nick was getting breakfast when the attack took place. Two men was with us- Bill Jones and another man. The old man went after water and did not come back. His friend went to see what was the matter and he did not come back. Nick started out and I told him to look out, that I thought there was someone at the stable and would not let them come back.
"Nick is shot but not dead yet. He is awful sick. I must go and wait on him.
"It is now about two hours since the first shot. Nick is still alive.
"Boys, there is bullets coming like hail.
"Them fellows is in such shape I can"t get at them.
"They are shooting from the stable and river and back of the house. Nick is dead, he died about 9 o'clock. I see a smoke down at the stable. I think they have fired it. I don't think they intend to let me get away this time.
"Boys, I feel pretty lonesome just now, I wish there was someone here with me so we could watch all sides at once.
"I heard them splitting wood. I guess they are going to fire the house to-night.
"I think I will make a break when night comes if alive." The regulators then took a wagon and loaded it with flammables and shoved it into the cabin. Champion's final message written in the notebook:
"The house is all fired. Goodbye boys, if I never see you again."
—Nathan D. Champion
With that, Nate charged out the back door sixshooter barking in one hand and his blade in the other. It took 28 rounds to satisfactorily dispatch this brave cowboy. A helluva man.
Cool image, eh? Nothing like looking dead into the past.
This ends the background. Let me add this. Tom's weapon of choice was the Winchester rifle. In later years his caliber of choice was the "30-30 Winchester".
The Governor of Wyoming via Mr. Irvine, via Mr. Penrose's "Recollections":
In 1914, Philadelphia physician Charles Penrose, who briefly accompanied the 1892 invasion of Johnson County but left before the killing began, wrote his recollections. Penrose included a vivid description of Horn as he was in 1895, as told to him by W. C. “Billy” Irvine, president of the Wyoming Stock Growers Association during the 1890s.
At the time, Wyoming Governor W.A. Richards was experiencing cattle thefts on his own ranges in northwest Wyoming. As Penrose recounts Irvine’s story, Richards and Irvine encountered each other walking toward the Capitol, where both the governor and the S[t]ock Growers Association had offices at the time:
When we reached the building he said, “Come into my office; I want to see you.” He immediately laid his troubles at the ranch before me [Irvine told Penrose], and we discussed the situation quite fully.
He finally said he would like to meet Tom Horn, but hesitated to have him come to the Governor’s office. I said, “Stroll in my office at the other end of the hall at three o’clock this afternoon, and I will have him there….” [At the meeting] the Governor was quite nervous, so was I, Horn perfectly cool. He talked generally, was careful of his ground; he told the Governor he would either drive every rustler out of Big Horn County, or take no pay other than $350 advanced to buy two horses and a pack outfit. When he had finished the job to the Governor’s satisfaction, he should receive $5,000, because, he said in conclusion, “whenever everything else fails, I have a system which never does.” He placed no limit on the number of men to be gotten rid of. This almost stunned the Governor. He immediately showed an inclination to shorten the interview.... [After Horn left] the Governor said to me, “So that is Tom Horn! A very different man from what I expected to meet. Why, he is not bad‑looking, and is quite intelligent; but a cool devil, ain’t he?”
Tom awaits death. . . hand braided "twisted horsehair lead rope"
The end of the world for "Texas Matt" Rash and "****** Isom" Dart:
"In Brown's Hole a former Texas cowboy, Matt Rash established a small ranch. Rash left Texas at age of 12. He later worked for the Middlesex Cattle Co. After it failed, he worked for the Circle K. Rash then established his own Ranch in Brown's Hole. where his initial stock came from is unknown, but his credit was good enough that he was able to borrow sufficient funds from the First National Bank of Rock Springs to expand his herds. Later he purchased additional lands. Bovine Kings and small settlers do not mix. One year along the Yampa, large ranches had placed so many cattle that they ground the grass to dust. Nevertheless large numbers of Two Bar cattle attempted to overwhelm the valley. Later, Haley in one effort to drive out the settlers, drove 5,000 head into Brown's Hole. In retaliation, some of Haley's cattle were driven off a cliff over the Green River to drown below. Others in the valley attempted to resolve the problem by doing away with grass by raising sheep. Nevertheless, Haley's cattle persisted in their efforts to be absorbed into local herds. Haley on roundups would not, contrary to usual practice, provide food for reps of other outfits or allow their bedrolls to be carried on his hoodlum wagons.
Soon, warnings similar to those which had previously appeared along the Upper Chug began to appear advising various individuals to leave the area.
On July 8, 1900, a tall stranger going by the name of "James Hicks," shared a meal with Matt Rash at his cabin in Brown's Hole. Hicks earlier in the year had worked for Rash on the spring roundup. After participating in Rash's hospitality, Hicks arose from the supper table and left Rash's cabin. Shortly thereafter Rash emerged from his cabin and was killed with a single shot. Rash's mare was also killed. Rash had managed to crawl back into the cabin and his bunk. There before dying, he unsuccessfully attempted to write a massage on the back of an enveloe using his own blood as ink. Rash was engaged to be married a nearby rancher, Ann Bassett. Bassett accused Hicks to his face of having murdered Rash. Hicks and neighbors laughed the accusation off. The murder went unsolved.
Three months later on October 4, 1900, Isom Dart (also spelled "Isham"), emerged from a cabin he was sharing with six others. A shot rang out, and Dart fell dead. The culprit was never seen by the occupants of the cabin. The next day, two 30-30 shells were found at the base of a tree where it was believed that the murderer had lain in wait. Hicks was the only one in the area to use a 30-30. Dart was popularly believed to be a rustler named Ned Huddleston, the sole survivor of the "Tip Gault" gang. The gang, which had rustled cattle in the Saratoga area, was wiped out in a gun battle. Huddleston had survived only because he was out of camp that night. Dart was also suspected of rustling, having had three indictments returned against him in Sweetwater County. No conviction, however, ever resulted. It is believed that Dart used a method of wet branding to obscure prior brands. Wet branding involved putting a wet gunny sack on a branding iron over the prior brand. The previous brand will then be scalded and when the scab forms, the ridges from the prior brand will come off with the scab."
James Hicks=Tom Horn, of course.
EXACTLY how Horn worked, he moved in, got the lay of the land and surveyed people and their routine movement over that land. He then issued warnings anonymously to the rustlers and after they ignored them, he executed them. That is just a prominent example. He did the same OFTEN. The seminal "Wild Bunch" historian, Charles Kelly, entitled his chapter on Horn, "One Man Army". Indeed.
During his years with the Pinkertons, multiple sources claim he killed 17 men. Maybe so; likely so. He left the Pinkertons after being accused of being involved in a robbery. "Toms separation from the Pinkertons was not due to his use of deadly force, but rather that he was accused of committing a robbery in Nevada, while in the agency’s employment. In a book by a Charlie Siringo’s he quotes “William A. Pinkerton told me that Tom Horn was guilty of the crime, but that his people could not allow him to go to prison while in their employ.” Tom Horn’s tracking abilities and the fact that he was a very talented agent could not hide the fact he ha a dark side that could be easily accessed."
Adios rustlers, Rash left; Dart right:
Dart's Cabin:
Read this VERY carefully! These are the exact words of Tom Horn discussing chasing some bandits, one of which was the NOTORIOUS outlaw known as "Peg-Leg" Watson.
"Eventually all the sheriffs posses quit and then Mr.
W. A. Pinkerton and Mr. McParland told Shores and me
to go at em. We took up the trail where I had left it
several days before and we never left it till we got the
robbers.
They had crossed the Sangre de Cristo range, come
down by the Villa Grove iron mines, and crossed back
to the east side of the Sangre de Cristos at Mosca pass,
then on down through the Huerfano Canon, out by Cu-
charas, thence down east of Trinidad. They had dropped
into Clayton, N. M., and got into a shooting scrape there
in a gin mill. They then turned east again toward the
"Neutral Strip" and close to Beaver City, then across
into the "Pan Handle" by a place in Texas called Ochil-
tree, the county seat of Ochiltree county. They then
headed toward the Indian Territory, and crossed into it
below Canadian City. They then swung in on the head
of the Washita River in the Territory, and kept down
this river for a long distance.
We finally saw that we were getting close to them,
as we got in the neighborhood of Paul s Valley. At
Washita station we located one of them in the house of
a man by the name of Wolfe. The robber s name was
Burt Curtis. Shores took this one and came on back to
Denver, leaving me to get the other one if ever he came
back to Wolfe s.
After several days of waiting on my part, he did
come back, and as he came riding up to the house I
stepped out and told him some one had come! He was
"Peg Leg" Watson, and considered by every one in Colo
rado as a very desperate character. I had no trouble
with him. "
Did you read that last sentence? "I had no trouble with him." Well, here's the truth.
"In one noted encounter with in the notorious Hole-in-the-Wall bastion, Horn single-handedly captured a bandit known as Peg Leg Watson (alias McCoy). Watson had robbed a mail train with his gang and Horn had discovered him [after days of tracking that defied belief! Horn could track a snake across pine needles! See above in his account where his partner had taken one outlaw back, already.] living [hiding] in a lonely cabin high in the hills."
At first light, Horn yelled for Peg Leg to give up. Peg Leg reportedly laughed and swung open the door with two sixshooters cocked and primed, he stepped into the doorway. Horn as cool as any man who ever lived, emerged from behind a boulder with his Winchester in the crook of his arm but clearly ready to rain death if need be. The man never missed a step, walked steady toward the two cannons and never lost eye contact with Peg Leg. It froze him. Peg Leg later told others that Horn's courage shook him. Horn disarmed him and took him in. BADAXX!
One of Tom's earlier tasks was that of civilian tracker and interpreter for the US Army: Here is an image of talks with General Crook and Geronimo in Mexico. Horn was there. Some say it is Horn's arm and leg shown at the far left of this image:
Tom Horn was also prominent in the "Johnson County War" where cattle barons/bullies and homesteaders/rustlers, faced off, as usual. This occurred in April 1892 in Johnson County, Wyoming. The "Wyoming Stock Growers Association" brought in a group of "regulators" to take out 70 ranchers or rustlers, depending on your point of view. Horn is generally credited with being one of the four shooters who took out the very popular and well liked Nate Champion. There were several men who fired heavily on the small group of ranchers, upwards of 50. Four "ranchers" were present at Champion's place; the BRAVE Nate Champion kept a journal during the battle, here are the words of a real cowboy who knew how to use a sixgun, as a matter of fact I have read that he alone killed four of the "regulators":
"Me and Nick was getting breakfast when the attack took place. Two men was with us- Bill Jones and another man. The old man went after water and did not come back. His friend went to see what was the matter and he did not come back. Nick started out and I told him to look out, that I thought there was someone at the stable and would not let them come back.
"Nick is shot but not dead yet. He is awful sick. I must go and wait on him.
"It is now about two hours since the first shot. Nick is still alive.
"Boys, there is bullets coming like hail.
"Them fellows is in such shape I can"t get at them.
"They are shooting from the stable and river and back of the house. Nick is dead, he died about 9 o'clock. I see a smoke down at the stable. I think they have fired it. I don't think they intend to let me get away this time.
"Boys, I feel pretty lonesome just now, I wish there was someone here with me so we could watch all sides at once.
"I heard them splitting wood. I guess they are going to fire the house to-night.
"I think I will make a break when night comes if alive." The regulators then took a wagon and loaded it with flammables and shoved it into the cabin. Champion's final message written in the notebook:
"The house is all fired. Goodbye boys, if I never see you again."
—Nathan D. Champion
With that, Nate charged out the back door sixshooter barking in one hand and his blade in the other. It took 28 rounds to satisfactorily dispatch this brave cowboy. A helluva man.
Cool image, eh? Nothing like looking dead into the past.
This ends the background. Let me add this. Tom's weapon of choice was the Winchester rifle. In later years his caliber of choice was the "30-30 Winchester".
Re: Tom Horn
Wasn't Nate Champion a helluva man? Those journal entries are just jaw dropping cool to me. Written in frontier lingo by a truly desperate man. He haf his jaw set and his chin to the wind, I'll tell ya. Tough, tough, tough man.
In this image posted below, Nate is in the center. Note the sixgun riding on his hip? I think it's ivory handled. Total guesses on my part as it may be something else. Darn cool, image if ya ask me (worth re-posting):
In this image posted below, Nate is in the center. Note the sixgun riding on his hip? I think it's ivory handled. Total guesses on my part as it may be something else. Darn cool, image if ya ask me (worth re-posting):
Last edited by Gibson on Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Tom Horn
The best of the circumstantial evidence was this:
"Witnesses were adduced that Horn left a sweater in a shoe store in Laramie City which was covered with dirt. The owner and the clerk were so sure that the individual leaving the sweater was Horn that they mailed it to Horn at the Laramie County Jail care-of Sheriff Smalley."
Thin? Well, it went to how the body was found.
Now for some more cool stuff.
I FOUND HORN'S APPEAL!
Willie Nickell had left Thursday morning but as I guess was the standards of the time, no one worried when he didn't arrive home that night! Odd to me, but I guess things were different in the old days. Anyway, his mother said he left about 6:30 or 6:40 am and he was shortly thereafter seen at the corral by his father, he was readying to go on an errand for his dad to employ a sheepherder. I suppose they thought he'd taken longer than thought and had camped for the night to ride in in the morning.
Shortly Kels Nickell and his companion, Mr. Apperson heard three shots coming from the general direction of the corral. A little odd but not alarming to them. They ignored it.
Willie Nickell:
Here are the words written by Justice Potter, Horn v. State, Wyoming Reports, Apr. 1903:
"The following morning Friday July 19 1901 at about 8 o clock Fred a younger brother took the cows out going in the direction and as we understand along the road traveled by Villie the day before and he soon returned crying and stated that illie was killed at the gate Mr Nickell and Mr Apperson started innnediately for the gate and they were shortly followed by the brother in law aforesaid and Mrs Nickell The body was found lying on its back in the road with the head turned toward the house The theory of the prosecution is that the boy had fallen on his face and that the body had been turned over owing to its situation and the fact that the clothing was saturated with blood and gravel was sticking to the face and clothing and that was the opinion of the witnesses who discovered the body and seems also to have been the opinion of at least some of the physicians called to give expert testimony Under the head of the body was a small stone or a little rock as expressed in the testimony which appeared to have been placed there by someone The body was found at a point sixty five feet from the gate which was open and lying down Near the body was a pool of blood and another pool was found at or very close to the gate and between the gate and the body patches or spots of blood were found in the road Ve conceive it to be an undisputed theory in the case at least every indication seems to point to it that the boy was shot when he was standing at or very near the gate and that he ran toward the house falling where his body was discovered or close to that spot The missiles entered the body on the left side passing entirely through it The wounds upon the body were described with accuracy by the physicians who conducted the post mortem examination ne wound penetrated the chest approximately on the axillary line striking the fifth rib taking an inward forward and slightly downward course producing a large wound of exit at the juncture of the sixth rib with the sternum and the point of entrance of the other wound was three inches posterior to the left axillary line and two inches above the ileum taking an inward and slightly downward course penetrating the abdominal viscera making a wound of exit one inch above the crest of the ileum and two inches anterior to the right axillary line."
Can you believe this? The real record from the appeal. Here's the full "confession":
"After Lafors and Horn entered the marshal's office the former handed the latter a letter remarking Here is your letter of introduction to Mr Vt G Pruitt which reads as follows and he proceeded to read it aloud Then Horn said I want to go on the Union Pacific I know the route and I don t know the others Joe meaning Lafors said It is about as near one way as the 0ther and you will get there about the same time After one or two remarks on this line Horn said Well Joe do you _ know anything about the nature of the work I will have to do up there Joe said Tom they are good people I have worked for them five or six years you will have to get right in among them and gain their confidence and show them you are all right Horn said I don t want to be making reports to anybody at any time I will simply have one report to make and that will be my final report If a man has to make reports all the time they will catch the wisest on earth These people are not afraid of shooting are they Joe said No they are not afraid of shooting Horn said I shoot too much I know you know me when it comes to shooting I will protect the people I am working for but I have never got my employers into trouble yet over anything I have done A man can t be too careful because you don t want any officers to know what you are doing Joe said Tom I know you are a good man for the place You are the best man to cover up your trail I ever saw In the Willie ickell killing I could never find your trail and I pride n1yself 0n being a trailer Horn said No I left no trail The only way to cover up your trail is to go barefooted Joe said Vhere was your horse Horn replied He was a long ways off Lafors said I would be afraid to leave my horse so far away you might get cut off from him to which Horn replied You don t take much chances These people are unorganized and anyway I depend on this gun of mine The only thing I was ever afraid of was that I would be compelled to kill an officer or a man I didn t want to but I would do everything to keep from being seen but if he kept after me I would certainly kill him The conversation then continued as follows: Lafors I never knew why Villie Nickell was killed Was it because he was one of the victims named or was it compulsory Horn I think it was this way Suppose a man was in the big draw to the right of the gate you know where it is the draw that comes into the main creek below ickell's house where ickell was shot Well I suppose a man was in that and the kid came riding up 0n him from this way and suppose the kid started to run for the house and the fellow headed him off at the gate and killed him to keep him from going to the house and raising a hell of commotion That is the way I think it occurred Lafors T o1n you had your boots on when you ran across there to cut the kid off didn t you Horn No I was barefooted Lafors You didn t run across there barefooted Horn Yes I did Lafors How did you get your boots 0n after cutting up your feet I Iorn I generally have tcn days to rest after a job of that kind Joe do you remember the little girl Lafors Who do you mean Horn The school marm She was sure smooth people She wrote 1ne a letter as long as thc Governor's message telling n10 in detail everything asked by Stoll_ the prosecuting attorney Stoll thought I was going to prove an alibi but I fooled him I had a man on the outside keeping me in touch before I showed up with everything that was going 0n I got this letter from the girl the same day l got my summons to appear before the coroner's inquest Lafors Did the school marm tell everything she knew Horn Yes she did I would not tell an individual like her anything not me She told me to look out for you She said look out for Joe Lafors he is not all right look out for him he is trying to find out something I said what is there in this Lafors matter She said Miller didn t like him and said he would kill the if God would spare him long enough There is nothing to those Millers They are ignorant old jays They can t even appreciate a good joke The first time I met the girl was just before the killing of the kid Everything you know dates from the killing of the kid Lafors How many days was it before the killing of the kid Horn Three or four days maybe darned if I want to remember the dates She was there and of course we soon paired ourselves off Lafors Vhat nationality was she Horn She was one quarter Jap one half Korean and the other German She talks almost every language on earth Lafors Tom didn t Jim Dixon carry you grub Horn No no one carried me grub _ Lafors Tom how can a man that weighs 204 pounds go without eating anything so long. Tom Well I do For some times I go for some days without a mouthful Sometimes I have a little bacon along Lafors You must get terribly hungry Tom Horn Yes sometimes I get so hungry that I could kill my mother for some grub but I never quit a job until I get my man Lafors What kind of a gun have you got Horn I used a 30 30 Winchester Lafors Tom do you think that will hold up as well as a 30 40 Horn No but I like to get close to my man The closer the better Lafors How far was Willie Nickell killed Horn About 300 yards It was the best shot that I ever made and the dirtiest trick I ever done I thought at one time he would get away Lafors How about the shells Did you carry them away Horn You bet your life I did Lafors Tom do you need any more money for this n tr1p Horn No If I get a pass I will not need any more money If I have to buy a ticket I must have a little more money but today is Sunday and I will have to wait until tomorrow Lafors ell it is after noon and I will go home and see you again this afternoon or this evening when we can talk this matter over Horn All right I will be back I want to know all about these people before I go up there Lafors Tom let us go down stairs and get a drink I could always see your work clear but I want you to tell me why you killed the kid as it a mistake Horn ell I will tell you all about that when I come back from Montana It is too new yet Horn and Lafors then left the office but they returned in the afternoon when the conversation was continued as follows Horn Joe we have only been together about fifteen minutes and I will bet there is some people saying VI hat are these planning now and who are they going to kill next We have come up here because there is no other place to go If you go to the Inter Ocean Hotel to sit down and talk a few minutes someone comes in and says Let us have a drink and before you know it you are standing up talking and my feet get so tired it almost kills me I am 44 years 3 months and 27 days old and if I get killed now I have the satisfaction of knowing I have lived about fifteen ordinary lives I would like to have had somebody who saw my past and could picture it to the public It would be the most interesting reading in the country and if we could describe to the author our feelings at different times it would l e better still The experience of my life or the first man I killed was when I was only 26 years old He was a coarse son Lafors How much did you get for killing these fellows In the Powell and Lewis case you got $600 apiece You killed Lewis in the corral with a six shooter I would like to have seen the expression on his face when you shot him Horn He zi 1s the scaredest son saw How did you come to know that Joe Lafors I have known everything you have done Tom for a great many years I know where you were paid this money Horn Yes I was paid this money on the train between Cheyenne and Denver Lafors Why did you put the rock under the kid's head after you killed him That is one of your marks isn t it Horn Yes that is the way I hang out my sign to collect my money for a job of this kind Lafors Have you got your money yet for the killing of Nickell Horn I got that before I did the job Lafors You got $500 for that Why did you cut the price Horn I got $2,100 Lafors How much is that a man Horn That is for three dead men and one man shot at five times Killing men is my specialty I look at it as a business proposition and I think I have a corner on the market.
It appears that when they returned to the office in the afternoon the conversation at first consisted of stories told by each about various troubles they had been connected with and such stories concerned the killing of people", but nothing relevant to the case at hand.
Joe LeFors:
Amazing stuff, eh? You'll have to piece it together a bit as punctuation is lacking. My copy and paste skills are poor.
So what do you guys make of all this? To me, it is awesome. Suffice it to say this hung Horn. Guilty? Innocent? Not Guilty? Shot the kid by mistake? You call it. I have decided against analyzing the evidence and giving my opinion. You decide.
One thing I'll add there was a STRONG debate as to weapon, defense expert claimed it was a 45/90 and prosecution expert said it was a 30-30. Go figure.
Tom after a short escape from his cell, quickly grabbed. He is near center. Bicycles abound!:
"Witnesses were adduced that Horn left a sweater in a shoe store in Laramie City which was covered with dirt. The owner and the clerk were so sure that the individual leaving the sweater was Horn that they mailed it to Horn at the Laramie County Jail care-of Sheriff Smalley."
Thin? Well, it went to how the body was found.
Now for some more cool stuff.
I FOUND HORN'S APPEAL!
Willie Nickell had left Thursday morning but as I guess was the standards of the time, no one worried when he didn't arrive home that night! Odd to me, but I guess things were different in the old days. Anyway, his mother said he left about 6:30 or 6:40 am and he was shortly thereafter seen at the corral by his father, he was readying to go on an errand for his dad to employ a sheepherder. I suppose they thought he'd taken longer than thought and had camped for the night to ride in in the morning.
Shortly Kels Nickell and his companion, Mr. Apperson heard three shots coming from the general direction of the corral. A little odd but not alarming to them. They ignored it.
Willie Nickell:
Here are the words written by Justice Potter, Horn v. State, Wyoming Reports, Apr. 1903:
"The following morning Friday July 19 1901 at about 8 o clock Fred a younger brother took the cows out going in the direction and as we understand along the road traveled by Villie the day before and he soon returned crying and stated that illie was killed at the gate Mr Nickell and Mr Apperson started innnediately for the gate and they were shortly followed by the brother in law aforesaid and Mrs Nickell The body was found lying on its back in the road with the head turned toward the house The theory of the prosecution is that the boy had fallen on his face and that the body had been turned over owing to its situation and the fact that the clothing was saturated with blood and gravel was sticking to the face and clothing and that was the opinion of the witnesses who discovered the body and seems also to have been the opinion of at least some of the physicians called to give expert testimony Under the head of the body was a small stone or a little rock as expressed in the testimony which appeared to have been placed there by someone The body was found at a point sixty five feet from the gate which was open and lying down Near the body was a pool of blood and another pool was found at or very close to the gate and between the gate and the body patches or spots of blood were found in the road Ve conceive it to be an undisputed theory in the case at least every indication seems to point to it that the boy was shot when he was standing at or very near the gate and that he ran toward the house falling where his body was discovered or close to that spot The missiles entered the body on the left side passing entirely through it The wounds upon the body were described with accuracy by the physicians who conducted the post mortem examination ne wound penetrated the chest approximately on the axillary line striking the fifth rib taking an inward forward and slightly downward course producing a large wound of exit at the juncture of the sixth rib with the sternum and the point of entrance of the other wound was three inches posterior to the left axillary line and two inches above the ileum taking an inward and slightly downward course penetrating the abdominal viscera making a wound of exit one inch above the crest of the ileum and two inches anterior to the right axillary line."
Can you believe this? The real record from the appeal. Here's the full "confession":
"After Lafors and Horn entered the marshal's office the former handed the latter a letter remarking Here is your letter of introduction to Mr Vt G Pruitt which reads as follows and he proceeded to read it aloud Then Horn said I want to go on the Union Pacific I know the route and I don t know the others Joe meaning Lafors said It is about as near one way as the 0ther and you will get there about the same time After one or two remarks on this line Horn said Well Joe do you _ know anything about the nature of the work I will have to do up there Joe said Tom they are good people I have worked for them five or six years you will have to get right in among them and gain their confidence and show them you are all right Horn said I don t want to be making reports to anybody at any time I will simply have one report to make and that will be my final report If a man has to make reports all the time they will catch the wisest on earth These people are not afraid of shooting are they Joe said No they are not afraid of shooting Horn said I shoot too much I know you know me when it comes to shooting I will protect the people I am working for but I have never got my employers into trouble yet over anything I have done A man can t be too careful because you don t want any officers to know what you are doing Joe said Tom I know you are a good man for the place You are the best man to cover up your trail I ever saw In the Willie ickell killing I could never find your trail and I pride n1yself 0n being a trailer Horn said No I left no trail The only way to cover up your trail is to go barefooted Joe said Vhere was your horse Horn replied He was a long ways off Lafors said I would be afraid to leave my horse so far away you might get cut off from him to which Horn replied You don t take much chances These people are unorganized and anyway I depend on this gun of mine The only thing I was ever afraid of was that I would be compelled to kill an officer or a man I didn t want to but I would do everything to keep from being seen but if he kept after me I would certainly kill him The conversation then continued as follows: Lafors I never knew why Villie Nickell was killed Was it because he was one of the victims named or was it compulsory Horn I think it was this way Suppose a man was in the big draw to the right of the gate you know where it is the draw that comes into the main creek below ickell's house where ickell was shot Well I suppose a man was in that and the kid came riding up 0n him from this way and suppose the kid started to run for the house and the fellow headed him off at the gate and killed him to keep him from going to the house and raising a hell of commotion That is the way I think it occurred Lafors T o1n you had your boots on when you ran across there to cut the kid off didn t you Horn No I was barefooted Lafors You didn t run across there barefooted Horn Yes I did Lafors How did you get your boots 0n after cutting up your feet I Iorn I generally have tcn days to rest after a job of that kind Joe do you remember the little girl Lafors Who do you mean Horn The school marm She was sure smooth people She wrote 1ne a letter as long as thc Governor's message telling n10 in detail everything asked by Stoll_ the prosecuting attorney Stoll thought I was going to prove an alibi but I fooled him I had a man on the outside keeping me in touch before I showed up with everything that was going 0n I got this letter from the girl the same day l got my summons to appear before the coroner's inquest Lafors Did the school marm tell everything she knew Horn Yes she did I would not tell an individual like her anything not me She told me to look out for you She said look out for Joe Lafors he is not all right look out for him he is trying to find out something I said what is there in this Lafors matter She said Miller didn t like him and said he would kill the if God would spare him long enough There is nothing to those Millers They are ignorant old jays They can t even appreciate a good joke The first time I met the girl was just before the killing of the kid Everything you know dates from the killing of the kid Lafors How many days was it before the killing of the kid Horn Three or four days maybe darned if I want to remember the dates She was there and of course we soon paired ourselves off Lafors Vhat nationality was she Horn She was one quarter Jap one half Korean and the other German She talks almost every language on earth Lafors Tom didn t Jim Dixon carry you grub Horn No no one carried me grub _ Lafors Tom how can a man that weighs 204 pounds go without eating anything so long. Tom Well I do For some times I go for some days without a mouthful Sometimes I have a little bacon along Lafors You must get terribly hungry Tom Horn Yes sometimes I get so hungry that I could kill my mother for some grub but I never quit a job until I get my man Lafors What kind of a gun have you got Horn I used a 30 30 Winchester Lafors Tom do you think that will hold up as well as a 30 40 Horn No but I like to get close to my man The closer the better Lafors How far was Willie Nickell killed Horn About 300 yards It was the best shot that I ever made and the dirtiest trick I ever done I thought at one time he would get away Lafors How about the shells Did you carry them away Horn You bet your life I did Lafors Tom do you need any more money for this n tr1p Horn No If I get a pass I will not need any more money If I have to buy a ticket I must have a little more money but today is Sunday and I will have to wait until tomorrow Lafors ell it is after noon and I will go home and see you again this afternoon or this evening when we can talk this matter over Horn All right I will be back I want to know all about these people before I go up there Lafors Tom let us go down stairs and get a drink I could always see your work clear but I want you to tell me why you killed the kid as it a mistake Horn ell I will tell you all about that when I come back from Montana It is too new yet Horn and Lafors then left the office but they returned in the afternoon when the conversation was continued as follows Horn Joe we have only been together about fifteen minutes and I will bet there is some people saying VI hat are these planning now and who are they going to kill next We have come up here because there is no other place to go If you go to the Inter Ocean Hotel to sit down and talk a few minutes someone comes in and says Let us have a drink and before you know it you are standing up talking and my feet get so tired it almost kills me I am 44 years 3 months and 27 days old and if I get killed now I have the satisfaction of knowing I have lived about fifteen ordinary lives I would like to have had somebody who saw my past and could picture it to the public It would be the most interesting reading in the country and if we could describe to the author our feelings at different times it would l e better still The experience of my life or the first man I killed was when I was only 26 years old He was a coarse son Lafors How much did you get for killing these fellows In the Powell and Lewis case you got $600 apiece You killed Lewis in the corral with a six shooter I would like to have seen the expression on his face when you shot him Horn He zi 1s the scaredest son saw How did you come to know that Joe Lafors I have known everything you have done Tom for a great many years I know where you were paid this money Horn Yes I was paid this money on the train between Cheyenne and Denver Lafors Why did you put the rock under the kid's head after you killed him That is one of your marks isn t it Horn Yes that is the way I hang out my sign to collect my money for a job of this kind Lafors Have you got your money yet for the killing of Nickell Horn I got that before I did the job Lafors You got $500 for that Why did you cut the price Horn I got $2,100 Lafors How much is that a man Horn That is for three dead men and one man shot at five times Killing men is my specialty I look at it as a business proposition and I think I have a corner on the market.
It appears that when they returned to the office in the afternoon the conversation at first consisted of stories told by each about various troubles they had been connected with and such stories concerned the killing of people", but nothing relevant to the case at hand.
Joe LeFors:
Amazing stuff, eh? You'll have to piece it together a bit as punctuation is lacking. My copy and paste skills are poor.
So what do you guys make of all this? To me, it is awesome. Suffice it to say this hung Horn. Guilty? Innocent? Not Guilty? Shot the kid by mistake? You call it. I have decided against analyzing the evidence and giving my opinion. You decide.
One thing I'll add there was a STRONG debate as to weapon, defense expert claimed it was a 45/90 and prosecution expert said it was a 30-30. Go figure.
Tom after a short escape from his cell, quickly grabbed. He is near center. Bicycles abound!:
Last edited by Gibson on Tue Oct 09, 2012 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Tom Horn
LIFE IS LIKE A MOUNTAIN RAILROAD
"The following eyewitness account of the hanging of Tom Horn was writen by John Charles Thompson, a reporter. His account was originally published in the Denver, Colorado, Posse of Westeners. Horn was executed with a new, and supposedly, more humane, method of hanging that relied on the emptying of a bucket of water to trigger the release of the trap door upon which the condemned man was standing:
"We newspapermen were crammed into a little space at the edge of the platform adjoining Horn's cell; the visiting sheriffs were marshaled on the first-tier level below. The Irwin brothers, flanked by guards, stood beside them. The executioners and a venerable Episcopal clergyman, Dr. George C. Rafter, an acquaintance of Horn, were on the gangway at the opposite edge of the platform. Beside the Irwins stood two physicians, Dr. George P. Johnston and Dr. John H. Conway. They were gentlemen of the highest integrity whom nothing could have induced to contribute to a criminal conspiracy.
Horn, his back against the cell grill, was half-reclining on his narrow bed, puffing a cigar. He was perfectly composed. His soft shirt was unbuttoned at the collar, this exposing the scar of the wound he had suffered in a fight at Dixon.
'Ready Tom,' said Proctor.
Horn arose, carefully placed his cigar on a cross reinforcement of the grill, strode firmly the few steps required to take him to the side of the gallows platform.
He nodded to the Irwins; sardonically scanned the peace officers below.
Ed,' he commented to Smalley, 'That's the sickest looking lot of darned sheriffs I ever seen.
'Would you like us to sing, Tom?' asked Charlie Irwin. ‘Yes, I'd like that,' responded Horn.
So, while Proctor buckled straps that bound Horn's arms and legs, the Irwins, each in a rich tenor, sang a rather lugubrious song popular on the range, Life Is Like a Mountain Railroad.
The clergyman read his church's prayer for the dying Horn, standing relaxed, listened without a tremor.
‘Would you like to say anything?' asked Smalley.‘No,' replied Horn.
‘Tom,' spoke up Charlie Irwin, ‘did you confess to the preacher?
No,' was the reply.
Proctor adjusted the noose, formed with the conventional knot of 13 wraps, to Horn's neck; drew a black hood over his head. Smal¬ley on one side and a friend of Horn, T. Joe Cahill, on the other, lifted the doomed man onto the trap.
Instantly the sibilant sound of running water permeated the breathless stillness; the instrument of death had begun to operate. To the straining ears of the listeners that little sound had the magnitude of that of a rushing torrent.
Smalley, his face buried in the crook of an arm resting against the gallows tree, was trembling.
‘What's the matter,' came in a calm tone through the black cap, getting nervous I might tip over?’
Seemingly interminable, the sound of escaping water ran on.
‘Joe,' said Horn, addressing Cahill, ‘they tell me you're married now. I hope you're doing well. Treat her right.'
Indubitably, he was the best composed man in that chamber of death.
Still the sinister sound of running water; then mercifully, the leaves of the trap parted with a crash and Horn's body hung through the opening.
Thirty-one seconds had elapsed since he had been lifted onto the trap!
He fell only four and one-half feet; his head and shoulders projected above the gallows floor. This drop was not sufficient; his neck was not broken. Proctor had feared to arrange a longer drop, apprehensive that stoppage of the fall of a body so heavy as Horn's might tear the head off. The slam of the massive hangman's knot against the side of Horn's skull knocked him into unconsciousness, however, and he did not suffer. For seventeen minutes the physicians with fingers on his pulse, felt impulses as a mighty heart labored on; then the pulse ceased.
Tom Horn was dead – unconfessed!"
John C. Coble lived only 11 years after Tom was hanged. He wrote the following to his wife and then shot himself:
"Elko, Nev., Dec. 4, 1914.
Dear Elise:
Believe me, I have tried to pull through. I am ALL IN, I AM ALL IN. Believe me - I am yours until the end, and I cannot make good.
Lovingly,
SIGNATURE (Illegible)"
"Coble then took his Smith and Wesson .32 revolver, walked into the ladies bathroom at the Commercial Hotel/Cassino in Elko, Nevada, put the revolver to his head and pulled the trigger."
"The following eyewitness account of the hanging of Tom Horn was writen by John Charles Thompson, a reporter. His account was originally published in the Denver, Colorado, Posse of Westeners. Horn was executed with a new, and supposedly, more humane, method of hanging that relied on the emptying of a bucket of water to trigger the release of the trap door upon which the condemned man was standing:
"We newspapermen were crammed into a little space at the edge of the platform adjoining Horn's cell; the visiting sheriffs were marshaled on the first-tier level below. The Irwin brothers, flanked by guards, stood beside them. The executioners and a venerable Episcopal clergyman, Dr. George C. Rafter, an acquaintance of Horn, were on the gangway at the opposite edge of the platform. Beside the Irwins stood two physicians, Dr. George P. Johnston and Dr. John H. Conway. They were gentlemen of the highest integrity whom nothing could have induced to contribute to a criminal conspiracy.
Horn, his back against the cell grill, was half-reclining on his narrow bed, puffing a cigar. He was perfectly composed. His soft shirt was unbuttoned at the collar, this exposing the scar of the wound he had suffered in a fight at Dixon.
'Ready Tom,' said Proctor.
Horn arose, carefully placed his cigar on a cross reinforcement of the grill, strode firmly the few steps required to take him to the side of the gallows platform.
He nodded to the Irwins; sardonically scanned the peace officers below.
Ed,' he commented to Smalley, 'That's the sickest looking lot of darned sheriffs I ever seen.
'Would you like us to sing, Tom?' asked Charlie Irwin. ‘Yes, I'd like that,' responded Horn.
So, while Proctor buckled straps that bound Horn's arms and legs, the Irwins, each in a rich tenor, sang a rather lugubrious song popular on the range, Life Is Like a Mountain Railroad.
The clergyman read his church's prayer for the dying Horn, standing relaxed, listened without a tremor.
‘Would you like to say anything?' asked Smalley.‘No,' replied Horn.
‘Tom,' spoke up Charlie Irwin, ‘did you confess to the preacher?
No,' was the reply.
Proctor adjusted the noose, formed with the conventional knot of 13 wraps, to Horn's neck; drew a black hood over his head. Smal¬ley on one side and a friend of Horn, T. Joe Cahill, on the other, lifted the doomed man onto the trap.
Instantly the sibilant sound of running water permeated the breathless stillness; the instrument of death had begun to operate. To the straining ears of the listeners that little sound had the magnitude of that of a rushing torrent.
Smalley, his face buried in the crook of an arm resting against the gallows tree, was trembling.
‘What's the matter,' came in a calm tone through the black cap, getting nervous I might tip over?’
Seemingly interminable, the sound of escaping water ran on.
‘Joe,' said Horn, addressing Cahill, ‘they tell me you're married now. I hope you're doing well. Treat her right.'
Indubitably, he was the best composed man in that chamber of death.
Still the sinister sound of running water; then mercifully, the leaves of the trap parted with a crash and Horn's body hung through the opening.
Thirty-one seconds had elapsed since he had been lifted onto the trap!
He fell only four and one-half feet; his head and shoulders projected above the gallows floor. This drop was not sufficient; his neck was not broken. Proctor had feared to arrange a longer drop, apprehensive that stoppage of the fall of a body so heavy as Horn's might tear the head off. The slam of the massive hangman's knot against the side of Horn's skull knocked him into unconsciousness, however, and he did not suffer. For seventeen minutes the physicians with fingers on his pulse, felt impulses as a mighty heart labored on; then the pulse ceased.
Tom Horn was dead – unconfessed!"
John C. Coble lived only 11 years after Tom was hanged. He wrote the following to his wife and then shot himself:
"Elko, Nev., Dec. 4, 1914.
Dear Elise:
Believe me, I have tried to pull through. I am ALL IN, I AM ALL IN. Believe me - I am yours until the end, and I cannot make good.
Lovingly,
SIGNATURE (Illegible)"
"Coble then took his Smith and Wesson .32 revolver, walked into the ladies bathroom at the Commercial Hotel/Cassino in Elko, Nevada, put the revolver to his head and pulled the trigger."
Re: Tom Horn
Was that a cool run through? Could you smell that acrid smell of gunpowder wafting by or the scent of old worn leather or the sound of a riata cutting the air or the jingle of Mexican spurs?
C'mon now, can I get an amen?
Horn, of course, was in possession of a Winchester model 94 .30-30 (WCF). But indeed had owned a .45-60 and judging from the photo below likely still had one. The .30-30 eventually went to the crooners at Tom's necktie party. Evidently, after spending some time in a museum, it went back to the heirs of the singing brothers.
Cartridges found in Horn's pocket after his arrest:
"Tom Horn had a Winchester model 1894 .30-30 caliber in his possession when was arrested for the crime. However, there was a .45-60 cartridge in his pockets, along with a .30-40 Government cartridge and a .38-40 cartridge"
One hears a lot about the .38 WCF sixgun Tom had but I found this .45 DA that is in a private collection, that is supposed to have belonged to Tom. Hm.
C'mon now, can I get an amen?
Horn, of course, was in possession of a Winchester model 94 .30-30 (WCF). But indeed had owned a .45-60 and judging from the photo below likely still had one. The .30-30 eventually went to the crooners at Tom's necktie party. Evidently, after spending some time in a museum, it went back to the heirs of the singing brothers.
Cartridges found in Horn's pocket after his arrest:
"Tom Horn had a Winchester model 1894 .30-30 caliber in his possession when was arrested for the crime. However, there was a .45-60 cartridge in his pockets, along with a .30-40 Government cartridge and a .38-40 cartridge"
One hears a lot about the .38 WCF sixgun Tom had but I found this .45 DA that is in a private collection, that is supposed to have belonged to Tom. Hm.
Last edited by Gibson on Tue Oct 09, 2012 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Don McDowell
Re: Tom Horn
I don't know if Chip Carlson is still alive or not, but the two books he's done are about the last definitive word on Tom, and it would be good if Dan Staley would pop in here.
But unless and until either of those two confirmed or denied some of this stuff, I wouldn't accept it as the gosple.
But unless and until either of those two confirmed or denied some of this stuff, I wouldn't accept it as the gosple.
Re: Tom Horn
What exactly does that mean?Don McDowell wrote:I don't know if Chip Carlson is still alive or not, but the two books he's done are about the last definitive word on Tom, and it would be good if Dan Staley would pop in here.
But unless and until either of those two confirmed or denied some of this stuff, I wouldn't accept it as the gosple.
I have news for you. NEITHER of them have any GOSPEL.
Why? Because the gospel truth is not out there. Chip Carlson wrote "Blood on the Moon", indeed but he doesn't profess to offer gospel truth. The account I have cobbled together is nothing new or insightful. It is culled from long standing documentation, old timers memories, and newspaper reports.
I quoted directly from the appellate record. It is what it is.
My take is that Dean Krakel probably is close to the truth in his assessment. But you are free to decide as you like.
I MADE NO ATTEMPTS TO GARB MY SKETCH IN THE VELVET ROBES OF TRUTH.
What specifically do you dispute? No doubt errors are plentiful, but I sifted as best I could and posted for your benefit. But I will gladly stop and you can ring up your own sources as, without any doubt, they know much more than I about Tom Horn.
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Don McDowell
Re: Tom Horn
Chip Carlson also before writing Blood on the Moon wrote Killing Men is my specialty.
The amount of research that Chip put into those two books on Horn, leaves little to be discovered.
But you have fun with what you're doing, just best not to try and pass your information off as freshly discovered, when in all likelyhood it's been out there for several years now.
The amount of research that Chip put into those two books on Horn, leaves little to be discovered.
But you have fun with what you're doing, just best not to try and pass your information off as freshly discovered, when in all likelyhood it's been out there for several years now.
Re: Tom Horn
Freshly discovered? Pass it off? You are a jerk. Understand?Don McDowell wrote:Chip Carlson also before writing Blood on the Moon wrote Killing Men is my specialty.
The amount of research that Chip put into those two books on Horn, leaves little to be discovered.
But you have fun with what you're doing, just best not to try and pass your information off as freshly discovered, when in all likelyhood it's been out there for several years now.
Listen up. I pass off nothing as freshly discovered. PERIOD. Is that clear?
I found the appeal online. It's not NEW. It just surprised me that I found it uploaded to the interweb.
Dean Krakel wrote about Horn long ago and Jay Monaghan before him. None of it is new.
I posted here for the run of the mill reader who has a casual interest. Clearly I am not an expert on Tom Horn. I have passed off NOTHING. I just culled out a general sketch for those who might have an interest.
Look pal, I was just passing along some general information for the people here. Most of it is quoted from contemporary sources. It is not new or epoch making.
I will not post another sketch here. PERIOD.
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Don McDowell
Re: Tom Horn
To bad you did not use the search function here. Tom Horn has been discussed here often and thoroughly, and politely.
It's also a sad deal that the info shared about Tom on the original Leverguns board (and other stuff) was not archived somehow , as the volumes of info provided by various folks there was worth it's weight in gold.
It's also a sad deal that the info shared about Tom on the original Leverguns board (and other stuff) was not archived somehow , as the volumes of info provided by various folks there was worth it's weight in gold.
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harry
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1406
- Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:33 pm
- Location: West central Montana
Re: Tom Horn
Well byeGibson wrote:Freshly discovered? Pass it off? You are a jerk. Understand?Don McDowell wrote:Chip Carlson also before writing Blood on the Moon wrote Killing Men is my specialty.
The amount of research that Chip put into those two books on Horn, leaves little to be discovered.
But you have fun with what you're doing, just best not to try and pass your information off as freshly discovered, when in all likelyhood it's been out there for several years now.
Listen up. I pass off nothing as freshly discovered. PERIOD. Is that clear?
I found the appeal online. It's not NEW. It just surprised me that I found it uploaded to the interweb.
Dean Krakel wrote about Horn long ago and Jay Monaghan before him. None of it is new.
I posted here for the run of the mill reader who has a casual interest. Clearly I am not an expert on Tom Horn. I have passed off NOTHING. I just culled out a general sketch for those who might have an interest.
Look pal, I was just passing along some general information for the people here. Most of it is quoted from contemporary sources. It is not new or epoch making.
I will not post another sketch here. PERIOD.
Trump 2024
All responses have been cleared by the law firm of "Elmer and Fudd."
All responses have been cleared by the law firm of "Elmer and Fudd."
Re: Tom Horn
Let's think this through.
I posted a LONG sketch on Tom Horn. The best you can do is to make a post berating its truth value.
The majority is, AGAIN, directly quoted.
You could have simply ignored it. But you choose to insult me and then talk of polite discourse. Yeah, okay.
Sad.
I have posted several sketches here and anyone who specializes in the individual subject matter certainly knows legions more. But they are solid accounts. If I write about Courtright, of course DeArment knows more; if I write about JWH, of course Metz knows more, etc.
No. I have no desire to use the search function for "Tom Horn", nor for Dallas Stoudenmire, nor Ben Kilpatrick, etc. I read Krakel and Monaghan years back. I haven' read Carlson's account/s, though it is no doubt very good from what I have read in reviews and discussions.
But fear not! I will not cause your eyes and brain to be insulted by my tripe further.
Adios.
I posted a LONG sketch on Tom Horn. The best you can do is to make a post berating its truth value.
The majority is, AGAIN, directly quoted.
You could have simply ignored it. But you choose to insult me and then talk of polite discourse. Yeah, okay.
Sad.
I have posted several sketches here and anyone who specializes in the individual subject matter certainly knows legions more. But they are solid accounts. If I write about Courtright, of course DeArment knows more; if I write about JWH, of course Metz knows more, etc.
No. I have no desire to use the search function for "Tom Horn", nor for Dallas Stoudenmire, nor Ben Kilpatrick, etc. I read Krakel and Monaghan years back. I haven' read Carlson's account/s, though it is no doubt very good from what I have read in reviews and discussions.
But fear not! I will not cause your eyes and brain to be insulted by my tripe further.
Adios.
Re: Tom Horn
Well, good riddance.harry wrote:Well byeGibson wrote:Freshly discovered? Pass it off? You are a jerk. Understand?Don McDowell wrote:Chip Carlson also before writing Blood on the Moon wrote Killing Men is my specialty.
The amount of research that Chip put into those two books on Horn, leaves little to be discovered.
But you have fun with what you're doing, just best not to try and pass your information off as freshly discovered, when in all likelyhood it's been out there for several years now.
Listen up. I pass off nothing as freshly discovered. PERIOD. Is that clear?
I found the appeal online. It's not NEW. It just surprised me that I found it uploaded to the interweb.
Dean Krakel wrote about Horn long ago and Jay Monaghan before him. None of it is new.
I posted here for the run of the mill reader who has a casual interest. Clearly I am not an expert on Tom Horn. I have passed off NOTHING. I just culled out a general sketch for those who might have an interest.
Look pal, I was just passing along some general information for the people here. Most of it is quoted from contemporary sources. It is not new or epoch making.
I will not post another sketch here. PERIOD.
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Don McDowell
Re: Tom Horn
Son I have not even been on the verge of insulting you.Gibson wrote:Let's think this through.
I posted a LONG sketch on Tom Horn. The best you can do is to make a post berating its truth value.
The majority is, AGAIN, directly quoted.
You could have simply ignored it. But you choose to insult me and then talk of polite discourse. Yeah, okay.
Sad.
I have posted several sketches here and anyone who specializes in the individual subject matter certainly knows legions more. But they are solid accounts. If I write about Courtright, of course DeArment knows more; if I write about JWH, of course Metz knows more, etc.
No. I have no desire to use the search function for "Tom Horn", nor for Dallas Stoudenmire, nor Ben Kilpatrick, etc. I read Krakel and Monaghan years back. I haven' read Carlson's account/s, though it is no doubt very good from what I have read in reviews and discussions.
But fear not! I will not cause your eyes and brain to be insulted by my tripe further.
Adios.
I will at this time have to question your sincerity, twice now you have said you were leaving, twice now you keep coming back and hurling bullspit... So either your word is good or its not, at the moment it's not looking good....
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Don McDowell
Re: Tom Horn
One more thing before the door hits you in the azzz.. Dean Krakel hisself said that Carlson's work were the definetive word on Horn, and it's a shame you haven't read Carlsons work, it is fascinating.Gibson wrote:Let's think this through.
I I read Krakel and Monaghan years back. I haven' read Carlson's account/s, though it is no doubt very good from what I have read in reviews and discussions.
But fear not! I will not cause your eyes and brain to be insulted by my tripe further.
Adios.
Re: Tom Horn
Don McDowell wrote:Son I have not even been on the verge of insulting you.Gibson wrote:Let's think this through.
I posted a LONG sketch on Tom Horn. The best you can do is to make a post berating its truth value.
The majority is, AGAIN, directly quoted.
You could have simply ignored it. But you choose to insult me and then talk of polite discourse. Yeah, okay.
Sad.
I have posted several sketches here and anyone who specializes in the individual subject matter certainly knows legions more. But they are solid accounts. If I write about Courtright, of course DeArment knows more; if I write about JWH, of course Metz knows more, etc.
No. I have no desire to use the search function for "Tom Horn", nor for Dallas Stoudenmire, nor Ben Kilpatrick, etc. I read Krakel and Monaghan years back. I haven' read Carlson's account/s, though it is no doubt very good from what I have read in reviews and discussions.
But fear not! I will not cause your eyes and brain to be insulted by my tripe further.
Adios.
I will at this time have to question your sincerity, twice now you have said you were leaving, twice now you keep coming back and hurling bullspit... So either your word is good or its not, at the moment it's not looking good....
Yes, SON, you have, SON.
It's clear that reading comprehension is not your strong suit. But I typed that I would no longer post sketches not LEAVING. I understand you are limited in your abilities and all. . .
I, much earlier, questioned your intelligence. My question is no longer a question. You are indeed full of bullspit.
But leaving is a good idea.
It's a shame you do not do any reading on your own. Considering the depth of understanding exhibited by your posts. . .
Not much better, as I have waster 45 minutes arguing with a cretin.
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Don McDowell
Re: Tom Horn
Oh and by the way, there has never been any confirmation that Horn was even in Wyoming for the Johnson County war. There was some speculation afterward that he may have been the one to shoot Ranger Jones, and possibly Tinsdale, but that is sort of the same cloth as the so called "Red Sash" gang that shot the part time US Deputy marshal, that had just the day before he got killed taken the job as ranch manager and fired all the hands on the place.....
So while interesting, your practicum here is full of holes, and we've discussed your attitude already...
So while interesting, your practicum here is full of holes, and we've discussed your attitude already...
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harry
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1406
- Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:33 pm
- Location: West central Montana
Re: Tom Horn
Only 10 days, well he must not be hanging to heavy in the shorts.Gibson wrote:Don McDowell wrote:Son I have not even been on the verge of insulting you.Gibson wrote:Let's think this through.
I posted a LONG sketch on Tom Horn. The best you can do is to make a post berating its truth value.
The majority is, AGAIN, directly quoted.
You could have simply ignored it. But you choose to insult me and then talk of polite discourse. Yeah, okay.
Sad.
I have posted several sketches here and anyone who specializes in the individual subject matter certainly knows legions more. But they are solid accounts. If I write about Courtright, of course DeArment knows more; if I write about JWH, of course Metz knows more, etc.
No. I have no desire to use the search function for "Tom Horn", nor for Dallas Stoudenmire, nor Ben Kilpatrick, etc. I read Krakel and Monaghan years back. I haven' read Carlson's account/s, though it is no doubt very good from what I have read in reviews and discussions.
But fear not! I will not cause your eyes and brain to be insulted by my tripe further.
Adios.
I will at this time have to question your sincerity, twice now you have said you were leaving, twice now you keep coming back and hurling bullspit... So either your word is good or its not, at the moment it's not looking good....
Yes, SON, you have, SON.
It's clear that reading comprehension is not your strong suit. But I typed that I would no longer post sketches not LEAVING. I understand you are limited in your abilities and all. . .
I, much earlier, questioned your intelligence. My question is no longer a question. You are indeed full of bullspit.
But leaving is a good idea.
It's a shame you do not do any reading on your own. Considering the depth of understanding exhibited by your posts. . .
Not much better, as I have waster 45 minutes arguing with a cretin.
Trump 2024
All responses have been cleared by the law firm of "Elmer and Fudd."
All responses have been cleared by the law firm of "Elmer and Fudd."
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Streetstar
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 3911
- Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:58 am
- Location: from what used to be Moore OK
Re: Tom Horn
Wow --- Gibson, thanks for the info ----
I'm not necessarilly a Tom Horn "fan" -- i only saw the McQueen movie and haven't researched it much --- but its all good stuff ----- i dont know whats true or whats not -- but they say 80% of what was written about Wyatt Earp was false as well -- so IDK
--- I'm definitely not going to say anything to the contrary of either you or Don though as you both evidently know more about this neat fella than i do, ---
again, thanks,a nd post up some levergun pics as well !
I'm not necessarilly a Tom Horn "fan" -- i only saw the McQueen movie and haven't researched it much --- but its all good stuff ----- i dont know whats true or whats not -- but they say 80% of what was written about Wyatt Earp was false as well -- so IDK
--- I'm definitely not going to say anything to the contrary of either you or Don though as you both evidently know more about this neat fella than i do, ---
again, thanks,a nd post up some levergun pics as well !
----- Doug
Re: Tom Horn
I often skim through here, but when I get a little time will enjoy thinking through your info. Thanks and welcome!
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
Re: Tom Horn
Some folks are so sensitive.
Government office attracts the power-mad, yet it's people who just want to be left alone to live life on their own terms who are considered dangerous.
History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
History teaches that it's a small window in which people can fight back before it is too dangerous to fight back.
Re: Tom Horn
We know you aren't going to go all touchy feely on us any time soon Fred. 
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
Re: Tom Horn
Don - This same guy was doing this stuff on the Ruger Forum, and while some enjoyed his posts about the old west, his other stuff showed me that he liked to pick fights online. "Roid rage" maybe, I don't know.
He lost me when he went off on you. I think that he started some bru-ha at Ruger Forum and figured he'd found himself a new home.
I sure as heck don't have any right to tell someone where they can go and not go on the web, but when he started with the "jerk" comment, and compounded it with his prolonged exit, he lost me right there.
Over the years I've read pretty thoroughly about the old west. I still am just a beginner with it all, and I figure that I've read between three and four hundred books about the period. Probably a low estimate. You get my nod Don, when it comes to these things which took place, literally, in your back yard. Too bad the guy was so juiced up or he might have gotten some good out of some constructive back-and-forth.
I think that maybe the "blanket posting" was a hint that something funny is going on "under the hood" if you know what I mean. - DixieBoy
He lost me when he went off on you. I think that he started some bru-ha at Ruger Forum and figured he'd found himself a new home.
I sure as heck don't have any right to tell someone where they can go and not go on the web, but when he started with the "jerk" comment, and compounded it with his prolonged exit, he lost me right there.
Over the years I've read pretty thoroughly about the old west. I still am just a beginner with it all, and I figure that I've read between three and four hundred books about the period. Probably a low estimate. You get my nod Don, when it comes to these things which took place, literally, in your back yard. Too bad the guy was so juiced up or he might have gotten some good out of some constructive back-and-forth.
I think that maybe the "blanket posting" was a hint that something funny is going on "under the hood" if you know what I mean. - DixieBoy
When the People Fear Their Government There is Tyranny; When the Government Fears the People There is Liberty.
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Don McDowell
Re: Tom Horn
Thanks Dixieboy. I sure never intended for the shxt storm that he launched to ever happen.
I do think you might be right about the excessively long posts.
I also imagine he holds hisself out as a "cowboy" but I got news for him he won't make a boil on a real cowboy like Harry's backside.
And I seldom if ever hold much creedence for someone that is self appointed authority , but not sure enough of hisself to list his location.
I do think you might be right about the excessively long posts.
I also imagine he holds hisself out as a "cowboy" but I got news for him he won't make a boil on a real cowboy like Harry's backside.
And I seldom if ever hold much creedence for someone that is self appointed authority , but not sure enough of hisself to list his location.
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CarlsenHighway
- Levergunner
- Posts: 31
- Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:40 pm
Re: Tom Horn
Well, I quite enjoyed that, and read it as the writer presenting interesting stuff as he found it.
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gamekeeper
- Spambot Zapper
- Posts: 17458
- Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:32 pm
- Location: Over the pond unfortunately.
Re: Tom Horn
+ 1...DixieBoy wrote:
I sure as heck don't have any right to tell someone where they can go and not go on the web, but when he started with the "jerk" comment, and compounded it with his prolonged exit, he lost me right there.
- DixieBoy
Whatever you do always give 100%........... unless you are donating blood.
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bdhold
Re: Tom Horn
seems like he was probably guilty and was certainly a much crustier guy than McQueen, though McQueen's role is great.
Thanks for all the research.
Thanks for all the research.
Re: Tom Horn
Don you came out strong, and for someone who doesn't get you(our new member here), he probably sees your post as a smack in the face. I probably would have too, though I would not now. As to his going off, it could be he's having a rough day, or month or year and needs a little patience. Maybe we all need that from time to time.
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8
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bdhold
Re: Tom Horn
this is a cool thread because of the historic content.
If one has different information to post on the subject it would be nice to read, as well - or link to it.
I'm a moderator on a different board, and the tack I take on conflict (which is inevitable) is when it leaves the topic and becomes "me and you conflict", it's time to take it off the board - it's taking up everybody else's bandwidth. Friendly banter always its place.
If you throw rocks at my soapbox, I won't be there, I've stepped down and I'm eating popcorn now.
If one has different information to post on the subject it would be nice to read, as well - or link to it.
I'm a moderator on a different board, and the tack I take on conflict (which is inevitable) is when it leaves the topic and becomes "me and you conflict", it's time to take it off the board - it's taking up everybody else's bandwidth. Friendly banter always its place.
If you throw rocks at my soapbox, I won't be there, I've stepped down and I'm eating popcorn now.
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Don McDowell
Re: Tom Horn
While McQueens movie is the best effort hollyweird has ever put out on Horn , it's well off the mark.bulldog1935 wrote:seems like he was probably guilty and was certainly a much crustier guy than McQueen, though McQueen's role is great.
Thanks for all the research.
If you're interested in Horn, Carlsons last book Blood on the Moon is the final word.
Horn didn't romantically leave home at 14, he left to keep from getting the living hell beat out of him on nearly a daily basis. Then you have a kid with those sort of problems find hisself in the middle of the Apache wars, thru the ptsd on top of the problems he already had and you got someone that's an absolute mess.
Also when you get into Horns real life and get some more of the real facts about him, he could quite possibly have been diagnosed asbergers.
Horn's involvement in the Johnson county war is extemely doubtful. His time with the Pinkertons , he spent about as much time on the wrong side of the law as he did on the good side. He was implicated in a robbery in Winnemuca, there's some evidence he may have been just as involved in the rustling in Browns Hole and vicinity as Rash and Dart, and may have even been in "business" with them both.
Most of the accounts of Horn , he either liked you or he didn't, and it's not real clear that anybody really liked him.
I think Coble stuck with him more as a matter of honor than a sense of friendship, as the stunt the Stock Growers pulled on him when the word of the Nickle boy's murder got out is almost disgusting. They were afraid of the monster they had created and the surest best method to rid themselves of that, and their involvement in many murders, was to let him hang.
His own big mouth and ulter ego was his own worst enemy in court, and the idiot completely undercut a thoroughly credible eyewitness that put him well away from the scene of the Nickle boys killing.
Sadly he was hung for a murder he did not commit, but in the end he was hung for many that he did do, and some could ill afford to have his drunken tongue blurt out at most in a most inopportune setting.
One other troubling fact I have not resolved in my mind is his involvement in bringing Geronimo in. There is no account by anyone else there that backs up the claims made in his own book, matter of fact it is very hard to find anything that actually places him at the scene. Whether this is a matter of egos clashing and muckity mucks not wanting to let some peon packer have any credit, or whether it's some braggards claim....
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bdhold
Re: Tom Horn
thanks, friend.
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Don McDowell
Re: Tom Horn
Glad to help.
But by all means anybody that has even the slightest interest in Horn needs to read both of Carlsons books. Both were well researched but the last one Blood on the Moon, Chip was granted access to private stuff that had previously never been allowed out much. Plus the time and effort he put into searching the public records all the way from Missouri to Arizona and here is almost mindboggling.
But by all means anybody that has even the slightest interest in Horn needs to read both of Carlsons books. Both were well researched but the last one Blood on the Moon, Chip was granted access to private stuff that had previously never been allowed out much. Plus the time and effort he put into searching the public records all the way from Missouri to Arizona and here is almost mindboggling.
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Charles
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 2004
- Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 2:29 pm
- Location: Deep South Texas
Re: Tom Horn
I sure don't want to stir the pot and don't know a darn thing about Horn after the Apache campaigns, except that he was hung and wrote the story of his life waiting for the trap to open.
I do know something about the Apache campaigns and own most standard works on that event in history. To be certain Horn was there, but in a much more minor role that he portrayed in his book. Some of his claims are even labled "ridiculous" by historians of that event. He wrote himself into events in ways and circumstances that don't square with other accounts.
So, any serious study of the life of Tom Horn should not consider his account as a reliable primary source, but use other contemporary materials from which to draw information and conclusions about the man.
What I come away with, is that Tom Horn was a stone cold killer for hire. A drunkard, braggard and liar. The times he lived in makes him an interesting character to study, but there was nothing eviable, noble or respectable about the man. He was just another low life that infested the western part of the country at that time and got hung for his efforts. I don't think it matters much if Joe Lefors tricked him or not or even whether he shot the kid of not. He earned his noose many times over and the world was a better place when he dropped through the trap.
There are so many fine, noble men and women that built up the western part of this county that are interesting and deserving of study.
I do know something about the Apache campaigns and own most standard works on that event in history. To be certain Horn was there, but in a much more minor role that he portrayed in his book. Some of his claims are even labled "ridiculous" by historians of that event. He wrote himself into events in ways and circumstances that don't square with other accounts.
So, any serious study of the life of Tom Horn should not consider his account as a reliable primary source, but use other contemporary materials from which to draw information and conclusions about the man.
What I come away with, is that Tom Horn was a stone cold killer for hire. A drunkard, braggard and liar. The times he lived in makes him an interesting character to study, but there was nothing eviable, noble or respectable about the man. He was just another low life that infested the western part of the country at that time and got hung for his efforts. I don't think it matters much if Joe Lefors tricked him or not or even whether he shot the kid of not. He earned his noose many times over and the world was a better place when he dropped through the trap.
There are so many fine, noble men and women that built up the western part of this county that are interesting and deserving of study.
Re: Tom Horn
I do not know how to be more clear on this... we do NOT refer to other posters a jerks nor do we make other such comments. It would be sufficient for you to have explained your point of view.Gibson wrote:Freshly discovered? Pass it off? You are a jerk. Understand?Don McDowell wrote:Chip Carlson also before writing Blood on the Moon wrote Killing Men is my specialty.
The amount of research that Chip put into those two books on Horn, leaves little to be discovered.
But you have fun with what you're doing, just best not to try and pass your information off as freshly discovered, when in all likelyhood it's been out there for several years now.
Listen up. I pass off nothing as freshly discovered. PERIOD. Is that clear?
I found the appeal online. It's not NEW. It just surprised me that I found it uploaded to the interweb.
Dean Krakel wrote about Horn long ago and Jay Monaghan before him. None of it is new.
I posted here for the run of the mill reader who has a casual interest. Clearly I am not an expert on Tom Horn. I have passed off NOTHING. I just culled out a general sketch for those who might have an interest.
Look pal, I was just passing along some general information for the people here. Most of it is quoted from contemporary sources. It is not new or epoch making.
I will not post another sketch here. PERIOD.
Again, if there are two people expressing an opinion it is inevitable that they disagree on some point. There is no need to insult and such behavior is not acceptable here.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Re: Tom Horn
Thanks Hobie, too bad we have to ruin an interesting story with name calling. Regardless of the source, the story is interesting and should be appreciated as such. Like most things on the internet there is some fact and some enlightened fiction. Read it and take it for what it is worth. Arguing as to who is right or wrong is not worth the time.
If I wanted to add to the argument I could tell the stories that have been passed down by one of the families that hired Horn. I knew and worked with two family members for many years, but who would believe me? I'm sure the authors quoted are correct. . . . 
If I wanted to add to the argument I could tell the stories that have been passed down by one of the families that hired Horn. I knew and worked with two family members for many years, but who would believe me? I'm sure the authors quoted are correct. . . .
All it takes for tyranny to succeed is for good men to do nothing.
Previous member of Mr. Kelly's forum.
Previous member of Mr. Kelly's forum.
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Don McDowell
Re: Tom Horn
Meteetse, let's hear the stories. As you know lots of us from the southeast corner of Wyoming grew up hearing alot of Horn. Fasinating character, Charles description of the man hisself is about as good, clear and true as it gets.
Funny how now after 100 years lots of stuff is coming to the surface about that time period here. The fascination and digging into what really happened during that period of range war has shed alot of light on some things. Like Billy Irvine's own book detailing how the Stock Growers executive committee comprised of 2 members from each county , got together once a month and produced a list of folks that needed to be eliminated for the "good of the country" He even went on to name who they were , prior to the Johnson county invasion. Horn wasn't on the list but a famous lawman was.
Also I found it absolutely astonishing that prior to the WSGA turning on Horn , they turned on Tisdale, because he was there when Nate Champion stomped the confession out of Shonsey about who the hit men were and who they were after. That left him an unempeachable eye witness to murder and the conspiracy, and attempted murder. Alot of "prominent" people stood a good chance of spending alot of time in those 6x8 ft cages when they weren't making brooms in Laramie. They shot him his team, and his dog, and left his childrens christmas presents blood stained in the wagon...No mention of Horn up to that point tho.
Funny how now after 100 years lots of stuff is coming to the surface about that time period here. The fascination and digging into what really happened during that period of range war has shed alot of light on some things. Like Billy Irvine's own book detailing how the Stock Growers executive committee comprised of 2 members from each county , got together once a month and produced a list of folks that needed to be eliminated for the "good of the country" He even went on to name who they were , prior to the Johnson county invasion. Horn wasn't on the list but a famous lawman was.
Also I found it absolutely astonishing that prior to the WSGA turning on Horn , they turned on Tisdale, because he was there when Nate Champion stomped the confession out of Shonsey about who the hit men were and who they were after. That left him an unempeachable eye witness to murder and the conspiracy, and attempted murder. Alot of "prominent" people stood a good chance of spending alot of time in those 6x8 ft cages when they weren't making brooms in Laramie. They shot him his team, and his dog, and left his childrens christmas presents blood stained in the wagon...No mention of Horn up to that point tho.
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MikeNV
- Levergunner 1.0
- Posts: 75
- Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 12:03 pm
- Location: Northern Nevada & North Central Montana
Re: Tom Horn
I have been following Tom Horn since the early 1990's. Last year I retired from LE work and was looking forward to a symposium on Tom Horn with several experts present in Buffalo, WY however this was cancelled due to lack of planned attendance...I was bummed.
So I went to Cheyenne and visited a couple of the sites... but it was rainy and nasty weather so some of the small day expeditons that I had planned didn't occur... so I headed up to Montana to visit the Little Big Horn Battlesite. I'll have to make another set of plans to visit the old stomping grounds of Horn.
Here's one of the older links I've found here at leverguns.com
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/staley/tom_horn.htm
If there are any further symposiums on Tom Horn that are planned I would surely attend.
So I went to Cheyenne and visited a couple of the sites... but it was rainy and nasty weather so some of the small day expeditons that I had planned didn't occur... so I headed up to Montana to visit the Little Big Horn Battlesite. I'll have to make another set of plans to visit the old stomping grounds of Horn.
Here's one of the older links I've found here at leverguns.com
http://www.leverguns.com/articles/staley/tom_horn.htm
If there are any further symposiums on Tom Horn that are planned I would surely attend.
Re: Tom Horn
For what it's worth, one of the gentlemen I worked with was Tom Tisdale, great grandson of the Tisdale involved with Horn. I also had some interesting discussion with family members who own and still occupy the Y-6 Ranch north of Cheyenne and whose late relatives were part of the Stock Growers Assn. during the Tom Horn era. But that is another story.Don McDowell wrote:Meteetse, let's hear the stories. As you know lots of us from the southeast corner of Wyoming grew up hearing alot of Horn. Fasinating character, Charles description of the man hisself is about as good, clear and true as it gets.
Funny how now after 100 years lots of stuff is coming to the surface about that time period here. The fascination and digging into what really happened during that period of range war has shed alot of light on some things. Like Billy Irvine's own book detailing how the Stock Growers executive committee comprised of 2 members from each county , got together once a month and produced a list of folks that needed to be eliminated for the "good of the country" He even went on to name who they were , prior to the Johnson county invasion. Horn wasn't on the list but a famous lawman was.
Also I found it absolutely astonishing that prior to the WSGA turning on Horn , they turned on Tisdale, because he was there when Nate Champion stomped the confession out of Shonsey about who the hit men were and who they were after. That left him an unempeachable eye witness to murder and the conspiracy, and attempted murder. Alot of "prominent" people stood a good chance of spending alot of time in those 6x8 ft cages when they weren't making brooms in Laramie. They shot him his team, and his dog, and left his childrens christmas presents blood stained in the wagon...No mention of Horn up to that point tho.
All it takes for tyranny to succeed is for good men to do nothing.
Previous member of Mr. Kelly's forum.
Previous member of Mr. Kelly's forum.
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JohndeFresno
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 4559
- Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 1:52 pm
Re: Tom Horn
Yup.DixieBoy wrote:Don... He lost me when he went off on you....
But I'm downloading this thread for my archives 'cause it has some interesting stuff. My thanks to Mr. "Gibson" for that.
Thank you for reminding us where we are at, Hobie.
Last edited by JohndeFresno on Thu Apr 14, 2016 6:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Griff
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 20864
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:56 pm
- Location: OH MY GAWD they installed a STOP light!!!
Re: Tom Horn
cshold, I gotta say... you have a knack for dredgin' up some monster old threads.
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!