What do you all think of these groups?

[Dave]

I have a Winchester 1906 at the house. It has a ring in the barrel under the front sight and a loose spot in the barrel farther down. Today I shot it. The first group was really big. I decided I wasn't executing well and shot the second group with a lot more love.

I couldn't decide it the second group was good enough to say the barrel is OK or not. No really wild shot, keyholing, etc. Still it is just barely minute of squirrel off a rest. It might shoot better if I tried harder.

I did a guy a favor and he said I could have the gun but if I have to get it relined that is money out of my pocket. He will give me some cash if I don't want the gun. What do you think? Is it shooting well enough to use it like it is? I say no. Think it will shoot better lined? You pays your money and takes your chances I guess.

The front bead is pretty big and I was shooting at those orange dots I could hardly see at 25 yards. I am considering taking another iron sighted 22 out for comparison. I have an iron sighted 10-22 of my daughters. My 39A has a Foolproof on it and I know it will shoot a lot better than that second group.

[fordwannabe]

I would take the gun I think it is shooting ok for the first load you tried in it. I think that 22s are the most finicky critter out there when it comes to ammo, I have had guns that would be lucky to hit dirt with one brand and shoot great groups just by changing ammo. When I get a new(usually just new to me) 22 I go to as many gun shops as I can and buy a box of every kind of 22 ammo I can lay my hands on usually 8-10 different kinds and over the course of a couple months shoot em up keeping the targets so I know which brand did what.

[Dave]

I would take the gun

I want guns more than money most of the time. This gun is all patina but original and not a bad gun. It's serial number is outside the range in databases so I guess it is one of the very last ones. It feeds, extracts, ejects just fine.

The first group was some pretty questionable ammo. The second was bulk Federal. I have some PMC Target ammo someone gave me that shoots very well out of our 10-22. Maybe I need to shoot the '06 more before deciding.

The hammer blocks the sights when it falls so that makes true follow through impossible. I had a Winchester 62 as a child and don't remember that but it had been rebuilt after a house fire and didn't have factory sights.

[AJMD429]

If possible, mount a scope on the gun if you want to really eliminate the 'poor sights' variable. Of course you wouldn't want to drill and tap it for just testing purposes, so if it isn't tapped, you can put one of those barrel-mount lasers on it (they fit pretty much anything), and shoot off a rest at a target, with a spotting scope set up close to the gun. With a low-recoil gun like that, you can easily shoot groups while looking through a spotting scope to be sure exactly where that laser dot is. You don't have to bother 'sighting-in' the gun, either, as long as you have a reference point and are 'on-paper' with your shots. Those orange 'dots' like you're using are perfect for making a red laser visible out to 50 yards even in daylight.

You can also use such a barrel-mounted laser to 'bore-sight' other sights you're installing - just sight in the gun using that barrel-mounted laser, then remove your old sights, and place the new ones, aligning them with the on-target laser dot. Works great for hard-to-boresight guns.

The first group was some pretty questionable ammo. The second was bulk Federal. I have some PMC Target ammo someone gave me that shoots very well out of our 10-22. Maybe I need to shoot the '06 more before deciding.

You could try Paco Kelly's Ac'u'rzr (I never know if I spell it right) - I got one and though I've not scientifically evaluated it, the fiddling with it I have done led me to believe it would make some of the 'bulk pack' stuff I have shoot MUCH better in my Single Six, and perhaps my bolt-action Marlin.

Here's a link to a short thread where I posted on the Ac'ur'izr - http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=16785

Lots more on the forum elsewhere I'm sure, and on RimfireCentral.com

[madman4570]

Gun is shooting good enough.
Take it.

Some info on them-----------
http://homesteadfirearms.com/appraisals ... models.htm

[Mac in Mo]

Unless you are hard up for cash, I would say take the gun. Groups don't look to bad for the barrel being what you describe.

Kevin

[earlmck]

If that shooting is at 25 yards -- I'd say that's not acceptable accuracy. If other ammunition, and/or better sighting arrangement doesn't get you considerably better, you are looking at a barrel line job to make it into an acceptable shooter.

If those are 100 yard groups? Well, that rifle will do you just fine!

[Alphawolf45]

Can you blame the trigger pull for part of that spread? ...How about a build up of lead in that rough barrel?
.
I want one of those Winchester pumps.. Relining .22s is pretty easy work. Why would anybody rather have money than guns?

[FWiedner]

If the guy is giving you the gun, take it.

If he owes you something, it's for you to decide if it's a fair deal.

If you're taking that gun after squills, you might be hungry for a day or two until your kentucky kicks in.

[Rusty]

I've seen a lot of .22's shoot quite well that had really funny things going on with the barrels. Some bent, some bulged.
I'd say you need to give the barrel a really good cleaning too before you decide if you want to re-line the barrel or not. Try all the cheap fixes first before you try something that costs more. Do the clean thing, then play with different brands of ammo. To clean I'd run a sloppy wet patch full Hoppes down the bore and let it sit overnight before using a clean patch. Put the rifle muzzle down standing in the corner overnight with a heavy layer of clean rags under the muzzle to catch the run off. Do that day after day till everything is clean. Some of the newer foaming cleaners might do better but I still have a quart of Hoppes left.
Try as many different brands of ammo as you can lay your hands on. I find Wolf Target to be about the best in all my rifles.

BTW, unless you need the money, I'd take the gun. Got any pictures of the rifle?

[Tycer]

I'd really clean the barrel well, very very well. Then I'd try a few different ammo in it. Try a different sight picture where you can see your dot and repeat a consistent hold to take the shooter out of the picture.

[Pete44ru]

IMHO, that's not acceptable 25yd accuracy for a target grade or modern bolt-action rifle - but I'd say it's pretty decent from a 100 year-old rifle that's most likely consumed more than it's fair share of corrosive-primed ammo.

I'd take it in a New York Minute, clean the snot out of it, and buy a selection of small amounts of at least 10 different brands/types of ammo to test in it.

Shoot each type of ammo at a separate target (label the targets afterward), for later comparison, then stock up on it's fave.

Please don't forget - DO NOT benchrest it like a bolt gun ! It will respond with larger groups than it's capable of shooting in the field on game (which doesn't stand around waiting for a group to be shot at it, BTW).
Shoot it off a bench, with NO part of the gun or stock touching anything but some part of your body (supported hand, shoulder, etc), for best results.

After finding it's fave, I'd be most concerned that the rifle will shoot it's first shot's POI to the POA, than I would with grouping.

.

[Dave]

Here is a pic of the little gem. I really like these guns but most seem like they have had the snot shot out of them by a series of little boys over the years. This one is used but not abused on the outside. I wouldn't say it was "crisp" but it is unmolested. I like patina guns so that is a plus for me.



I think I am inclined to tell him I'll take it. I haven't really cleaned it. Just ran a patch down the barrel. I doubt the gun has been fired in 40 years or more until yesterday. Who knows last time it was actually cleaned? Probably long before that.

Pete's comment about not resting the gun on anything is a good one. I was resting the pump handle on a rest when I shot it. My levers shoot badly if you bag them. If you slip your hand between the fore end and the front bag like you were shooting normally they do a lot better. I am going to keep that in mind next time.

The windage adjustment is at the front sight on this gun. To get it centered up wouldn't take much. I might can center it up by picking a different place on my shoulder to hold it. A little more to the right on my shoulder maybe. I put a drop of Kroil under the front sight last knight but I'm not in a hurry to move it.

I think I am going to clean the bore well and try it again with some different ammo and use Zen like shooting technique and see what happens. I know my 39A really likes CCI mini mags and will shoot them onto a dime at 25 yards so maybe this gun will have a golden load.

Even like it is at 25 yards if you put the squirrels head on top of the bead and held left a little you could hit him head, neck, or shoulder if he was sitting up since the gun is shooting a vertical group instead of a horizontal group so that is a plus.

I can always get it relined at some point I guess if I just can't stand it.

[Blaine]

Take the gun...clean it up, especially the bbl. A big front sight like that, you have to use a 6 O'Clock hold so the bead is directly under, and touching the target; that could be part of your spread if you are guessing where the red dot is

[Hobie]

I have a 1906 and while it will shoot better than that that gun is hard to get in that condition. It would go for $250-350 around here. It would be worth the cost to have the barrel lined, if needed.

My gun has killed squirrels and groundhogs and... for 3 generations at least.

[O.S.O.K.]

I'd take it. Did you try different types of ammo? That group is too big for squirrel hunting yes. But it may respond to another brand/type of ammo. If you have it relined/chambered, it surely would shoot much smaller groups.

[Dave]

It would be worth the cost to have the barrel lined, if needed.

Since I am getting it essentially for free I could get it relined and not be upside down on it. I am not sure how much I would really use the gun but I could hunt it a couple times a year late season when the leaves are all down and the squirrels are on the ground a lot. The leaves stay up a long time here. I have gotten spoiled with the 20 gauge.

My ability to use buckhorn sights in shady woods isn't quite what is was when I was a lad. I am going to keep my fingers crossed on the thorough cleaning/different ammo route for now.

[AJMD429]

Shoot each type of ammo at a separate target (label the targets afterward), for later comparison, then stock up on it's fave.

Actually, I have messed up a couple times by labeling them 'after' - so I find it best to label them before shooting them.



Well, THAT gun has CHARACTER - as long as you have another that shoots 'well', it would be a cool one to have, even if it isn't accurate...!

[FWiedner]

That's a fine looking rifle.

Don't give up on it. Clean out the century of crud and shoot it again.

I'd love to see a squirrel over those old sights!

[Hobie]

It would be worth the cost to have the barrel lined, if needed.

Since I am getting it essentially for free I could get it relined and not be upside down on it. I am not sure how much I would really use the gun but I could hunt it a couple times a year late season when the leaves are all down and the squirrels are on the ground a lot. The leaves stay up a long time here. I have gotten spoiled with the 20 gauge.

My ability to use buckhorn sights in shady woods isn't quite what is was when I was a lad. I am going to keep my fingers crossed on the thorough cleaning/different ammo route for now.

A Marbles tang peep should screw right on...

[toby]

It's a 1906, not like you can pick one up at Walmart. Unless you really need the cash, keep the gun. Clean it up and enjoy. If you have to reline it, it's not that expensive. A 1906 & Winchester model 61 is on my wish list.

[Dave]

It would be worth the cost to have the barrel lined, if needed.

My ability to use buckhorn sights in shady woods isn't quite what is was when I was a lad. I am going to keep my fingers crossed on the thorough cleaning/different ammo route for now.

A Marbles tang peep should screw right on...

Like the snake in the Garden I tell ya!

[fordwannabe]

Come on Dave you come HERE and expect us to tell you to take the cash???? This is enabler central right here buddy!