ro power trip

[gray1]

I've read through more than one thread before about safety issues that are exibited as people sight in just before hunting season .Well have you ever felt that the ro was a bit more arogant than needed?Just yesterday my son and I agreed that we were going to leave the range and when they said the range is now hot we approaced the bench and my son took his rifle which was just verified as being unloaded and walked back to put it in the gun case that was on the ground and the ro said put that gun back on the table.He then explained that to put the gun in the case the case should be on the table and the muzzle allways pointed down range.I was explaining to my son that if he had done as the ro advised that the other rifle in the case would be pointing in the opposite direction.If your carrying a rifle with the action open they say point the muzzle up.That's easy to comply with but do they do the same at your range?In the past I used to bring my sons friend along then they told me I had to get a permission slip signed by his parents I got a slip signed and the next time I show up at the range with my sons friend then the ro says I still can't take him shooting because i'm not his parent.Whats your opinion?

[Marlin32]

I guess I don't need someone telling me what to do or how to shoot. Last time I would be at that range. But then again, I do not go to range, shoot out my back door.

[kimwcook]

Sometimes it's arrogance, sometimes it's ignorance.

[AJMD429]

Many times following the rules strictly can actually result in less safety. Unfortunately, at a public range, there wind up being lots of compromises along that line.

[Blaine]

Some just over-impressed with themselves...

[1894c]

Some just over-impressed with themselves... :roll:

+1 ... :(

[Rusty]

I don't think you can be too safe. If you have problems with the range officer ask him in a polite calm manner to explain how he wants the situation handled. You might explain why you did what you did as far as putting the rifle in the case.
The issue of the written permission needs to be taken up with someone over the RO's head. Find out what the range rules are.

[gamekeeper]

Some just over-impressed with themselves...

+ 2. I've met a few like that. I have more respect for the ROs that use common sense but still maintain safety, must be difficult though with some folks total disregard for safety.

[Chas.]

Don't be too turned off. I'm an RO at a range that has about 50 RO's and there are all types. The new ones are the most strict. Some of the older ones are less so. Even as an RO, I've been called for some things that I thought were ridiculous, but I knew that the next time, there would be different ROs. I remember one time I was raising my glasses to my forehead just long enough to use my binoculars to examine a target. One of the ROs on duty tapped me on the shoulder and told me I must leave my eye protection on at all times. Sheeessh.

[piller]

I shoot mostly at Alpine Gunrange in Ft. Worth, just touching the little town of Mansfield. Never had a bad experience with a range officer there. Some of the folks who have been there, well, let's just say that they occasionally need a crowbar upside the head. That is a rarity thank GOD!

[Griff]

Having never RO'd at a public range, I can't answer from that standpoint... however; having shot at plenty of public and police ranges over the years, some ranges are more strict... (the term abbreviated as "AR" comes to mind), than others. This isn't meant as a criticism... nor should you take your experience as personal. In fact, I'd understand their strict adherence to "procedure" over "uncommon good sense" given the timing you noted, "...as people sight in just before hunting season..." Far too often, this might be the first time many folks have handled their rifle... whether new or used, EVER! Or, maybe the first time since last season. Even if they've been hunting for 20+ years, they don't handle a rifle enough for good safety practices to become habitual... or even second nature.

Add to this, the particular RO may not know you from Adam... I know that the RO at the range I go to sometimes, (read on rare occasions), may recognize me in the store as I buy some black powder from him... but he always looks at my membership card as tho' it's foriegn... it's old, and I don't go to shoot very often. In fact, I think it's been 3 years since CRS and I shot there... the last time I went. I've been to ranges where they won't even let you take your gun cases onto the range. That's their policy/procedure, and since THEY are paying the insurance premium, I'll go along with it.

While YOU may know that your case contains a 2nd rifle that's facing the opposite direction of the one you're about to put in it... the RO may not be able to see that fact from his vantage point. (Facts not evident in your original post, so I'm having to assume here)...

In short... ALWAYS assume that the RO figures everyone at his range is a complete newbie, an idjit so to speak, and will act and react accordingly. That attitude has always allowed me to forgive (if not forget) their high 'n' mighty or condenscending actions or verbal abuse. In fact, when I go to a range and I don't hear folks getting verbal reprimands over the loud-speaker, it makes me wonder if the RO is paying attention, especially when I see infractions of their rules. I've felt far more threatened on public ranges that are supposedly "cold", than when on patrol in a squad car... (we won't talk about police "hot" ranges... ok?)

It's the same with cowboy action ROs... some are just better than others... notwithstanding their knowledge and application of the rules... but rather in their "people skills". Remember, this ain't a high paying job... the skill sets they possess are not always up to the tasks they must face.

As a friend reminded me when I was complaining about the highways in the state of ___________; "Griff, you need to remember that the "A" grade engineers went to work for NASA, the "C" and "D" engineers went to work for the highway department!"

[Booger Bill]

Thats why I mostly shoot by myself in the boonies. You see people that are given authority on many jobs and positions in life use it to promote their over inflated egos. Say anything and you are considered one of those that hate authority figuers.

[J Miller]

Thats why I mostly shoot by myself in the boonies. You see people that are given authority on many jobs and positions in life use it to promote their over inflated egos. Say anything and you are considered one of those that hate authority figuers.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What he said.

When I lived in AZ I'd go to the Black Canyon range North of Phx once in a while when I really needed a measured out range to test a new or repaired gun. Other than that I'd head out to the desert and set up by myself or with a friend or two.

Most of the ranges I've been to have been OK and I've had no problems with them. But gun ranges are just too noisy and the indoor ranges are too dark and have poor ventilation.

As for the RO's I've had virtually no trouble with them. Knock on wood.

Joe

[COSteve]

Last November I took the NRA's Range Safety Officer (RSO) course so that I could donate time as RSO at our club's private range. All RSOs are club members who've gone through the NRA's RSO course and donate their time to keep the range running. The RSO is in charge of the entire range and Range Officers (RO) are assigned to each specific range (i.e. 100yd, 200/300yd, shotgun, pistol house, etc.) where they report to the RSO to coordinate operations on the various ranges via walkie-talkie.

It was a real eye opener as the NRA's course is quite extensive and it repeatedly emphasizes reasonable control within the range's written safety and operational guidelines yet gives adequate flexibility to deal with anything out of the ordinary that can come up (and it does). Most of our RSOs are easy going and will work with the ROs to ensure that the members hardly know that they are there, however, when an RSO gets a bit overbearing, some of the more senior members will just walk up to him / her and quietly mention that the course gives them some latitude and they might want to consider being a bit less rigid.

Those who I mentioned this to took one look at my RSO title on my range badge and then they dialed it down a bit. We did have an individual who was working on his 'Napoleon Complex' quite a bit and after a few 'talks' with the Club's Board, was stripped of his RSO title because he just couldn't quit marching around barking orders and annoying everyone. Thankfully, of the 100 trained RSOs in our club, we've only had one bad apple so far (we trained 100 RSO's because each of us only needs to volunteer 8 hours per year and we do it gladly to help keep the range open and prospering).

[cas]

I think I know that range. I used to work there.
(Not really, but at a range where we made a big deal over where you cased an uncased your guns)


Where I worked, the RO announces before and after every cease fire, that the only place you should be casing or uncasing your rifle is on the bench, with it pointed down range. How hard it that to follow? It's not like you haven't heard me say it 8 times in the last hour and a half over the PA system (plus once directly to YOU in person when you were assigned your bench). But it happened constantly. People sweeping each other left and right. Some people don't think it's a big deal, but I'd hate to tell you how many times I saw people bring loaded guns to the range. They'd take them out of the case and just start shooting. I would give them quite an earful.


Sometimes RO's are on a power trip, I've seen it a number of times. But they get accused of it a lot more often than it's the case.

People would often say "I only made one little mistake." You have to realize that your one little mistake with the RO's 23 little mistake of the day, 275th of the week, 3,846th of the year. You get tired of people breaking the rules, no matter how small (especially when you're beating people over the head with them and they still ignore them). You get tired of people pointing guns at you, tired of people endangering others lives.

When I worked as an RO I didn't throw a lot of people out compared to some others, but I never thew someone out where afterwards other customers didn't come up to me and thank me for doing so.

[claybob86]

People would often say "I only made one little mistake." You have to realize that your one little mistake with the RO's 23 little mistake of the day, 275th of the week, 3,846th of the year. You get tired of people breaking the rules, no matter how small (especially when you're beating people over the head with them and they still ignore them). You get tired of people pointing guns at you, tired of people endangering others lives.

Good point!

[piller]

I was on a range where the range was cold, I was downrange putting stickers on the target when someone came up, uncased his pistol and started shooting. The RO threw him off the range on the second shot. I was doing my best to get back behind the line and bend a barrel over the idiots head, but the RO got to him first. He yelled at the RO that there was nobody there when he started shooting. The RO threatened to call the police and turn him in for driving on a fake license since he couldn't see. I have not have any trouble with the ROs at Alpine. I did get reprimanded for not checking when my son set a pistol down and it was not unloaded. I did make the mistake of not checking, my son was about 11 years old and he was totally my responsibility. I did make the mistake, but the RO caught it as he should have. Was I angry, NO I wasn't. He was doing his job. Bottom line, if you are in the area, I suggest going to Alpine range in the Fort Worth area.

[2571]

"I was raising my glasses to my forehead just long enough to use my binoculars to examine a target. One of the ROs on duty tapped me on the shoulder and told me I must leave my eye protection on at all times."

Why don't you bring appropriate binocs to the range? There are binoculars for folk wearing glasses, be they with corrective or safety lenses. What's the sense of having safety rules if they are ignored?

Just like there are different range officers, there are hard-head, know-it-all shooters who think it's OK have their own rules.

[Alan Wood]

Well in my experience the only range officers I have had a problem with are the ones who were to lax to the point of I no longer use that range but instead drive 1/2 hour further to what is a nicer range to begin with! Really I feel reasonably safe at the range I use but there is a much closer one I no longer use due to saftey concerns.

[claybob86]

"I was raising my glasses to my forehead just long enough to use my binoculars to examine a target. One of the ROs on duty tapped me on the shoulder and told me I must leave my eye protection on at all times."

Why don't you bring appropriate binocs to the range? There are binoculars for folk wearing glasses, be they with corrective or safety lenses. What's the sense of having safety rules if they are ignored?

Just like there are different range officers, there are hard-head, know-it-all shooters who think it's OK have their own rules.

I am not at all lax in the safety department, but the binoculars incident sounds more like zero tolerance brain-dead stupidity (or just power-drunkenness) than a meaningful application of oversight by the ro.

[bdhold]

I gotta go with the guy who owns the range makes the rules. He's in a dangerous-enough business and really can't afford to trust people. One idiot yayhoo in his whole life is all it takes to ruin him.
It's always your choice whether you give him your business (unless of course you violate a safety rule and get banned).
The range I frequent, it's because of their safety. Everybody gets barked at. It's an attitude of making sure the visitors remember the safety lecture. (and even there, a man murdered his wife at the range)
They see a lot of people, and can't afford to respect them for their skills, which they have to consider an unknown quantity.

I'm not going to take my daughter to a range with lax safety.

[redhawk]

Don't have range officers where I shoot. Everyone is expected to obey range rules and be safe. Individual shooters call for range hot or cold. In a sense, we range each other and as far as I know we have never had an incident.

[bdhold]

me and my daughter are the only we at any range we visit - everybody else is them, and they're armed.

[FWiedner]

Why don't you bring appropriate binocs to the range? There are binoculars for folk wearing glasses, be they with corrective or safety lenses.

No there aren't.

There may be many models where the user can achieve a very narrow and usually useless field of view when wearing corrective or safety lenses, but that does not equate to being "for folks with glasses". Not even close.

[pdentrem]

If you wear glasses and have to put safety glasses on top of them then there are NO binos that will work.
If you do not require corrective glasses then yes a better set of binos would be an asset.

but prima donnas are PITA

[Streetstar]

I use a pretty secluded wildlife management range for this reason alone. Very very few people there during the week, and if they are, they are usually "shooters" who you dont have to worry about

That said, i think we all keep a Roscoe strapped on when we walk downrange due to the lack of RO's, rule enforcement, etc,

but a lot of times, i prefer to be free to go out and throw some clay birds on the 50 yard berm to shoot, or toss a can or 2 out there to roll to the end of the lane, than to deal with an overly regimented setup

Anything over 150 yards, i am just punching paper and i go to a registered pain-in-the-A NRA style range to do so. Not too many probs and i just play with my Kindle between shooting strings if i have to wait a while to mess with my target ---- its hard to drink beer at this range while you shoot though

[Idiot]

I trust and respect the ROs at the ranges I shoot at far more than the other shooters. Without the strict, by the book ROs at the ranges I shoot at, who are not afraid of confronting someone or scolding someone through the range speakers, there would be accidents all the time. The ranges near my home are full all the time (except deep summer) and on weekends they resemble a carinval. A bunch of the people there have NEVER handled a gun and have NEVER been to a range. There are off duty cops, hunters, machine gunners, kids, dads, shooters, gang bangers, you name it, at the range. And I for one appreciate the Range Officers who are tough and by the book - even when I've been on the receiving end of one of their directives.

On top of trying to keep the range safe, the Range Officers are also trying to keep the ranges open. And with insurance companies raising rates and a whole slew of anti-gunners trying to close them down, I understand even some of their "over the top" rules and enforcement of them. So my advice is, if you're going to shoot at a public range, get used to the Range Officers, they just may keep you from obtaining a couple extra holes and are trying to keep a place to shoot available for all of us.