I see my future and it's boring.
Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
-
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1506
- Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:02 pm
- Location: Eastern Ohio, Foothills of Appalachia
- Contact:
I see my future and it's boring.
Well at 51 I finally had my first major wood shop accident. It happened Thursday morning while I was getting everything ready to set up for this weekends fall festival that my blacksmith shop would be in. While working on the router table making the seat for a stool the stock grabbed and before I knew what happened it pulled me in. I lost the nail and had some damage to me left ring and index fingers. The middle took a whoopin and I have surgery Tuesday afternoon to get it shortened and closed. I'll spare you the pics.
So now I will sit and stare at firewood that needs cut and a host of jobs that I am going to be two months behind on. Nice work, dumb adze. No more riding this year I figure but I may get a jump on the jigsaw puzzles. I figure I'll start some threads and live here for some of it too. I mean it's day two and I'm already bored.
Gobbler
So now I will sit and stare at firewood that needs cut and a host of jobs that I am going to be two months behind on. Nice work, dumb adze. No more riding this year I figure but I may get a jump on the jigsaw puzzles. I figure I'll start some threads and live here for some of it too. I mean it's day two and I'm already bored.
Gobbler
Click Click Boom
-
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1406
- Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:33 pm
- Location: West central Montana
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
Gobbler hang in there, I lost the end of my middle finger in an oil field accident in 1978. Your lucky thou, if you had lost your little finger you wouldn't be able to eat peanuts any more......... they all run out the bottom when you grab a hand full.
Get well soon
Harry
Get well soon
Harry
Trump 2024
All responses have been cleared by the law firm of "Elmer and Fudd."
All responses have been cleared by the law firm of "Elmer and Fudd."
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
well..... stuff happens...you'll be back to normal in no time....
LETS GO SHOOT'N BOYS
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
That will certainly limit your self expression while driving. Hope you heal quickly.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
Life happens fast don't it? I'm glad it wasn't worse.
Sure reminds us of our mortality and sharpens our gratitude for life.
Sure reminds us of our mortality and sharpens our gratitude for life.
Kind regards,
Tycer
----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.saf.org - https://peakprosperity.com/ - http://www.guntalk.com
Tycer
----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.saf.org - https://peakprosperity.com/ - http://www.guntalk.com
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6747
- Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:30 am
- Location: Lower Central NYS
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
I hate table saws/routers!
If I can't do my required cutting with either a Milwaukee Jigsaw or sawzall it don't get cut.(course I am not no wood worker either?)
They do have them with the laser/guard setup (supposedly)that will stop before you lose a finger/hand etc.?(brother has em)
I just won't use any of them period.(I have blades for the jig that go to 15"(for cutting say a 6X6 etc.(it's variable with trigger and will cut as slow as doing it by hand if wanted.)
Thank God it wasn't worse.(my buddy lost 3 fingers on a table saw(same thing happened)couple years back)
So for me if I was to ever use one it would be with some type extension instead of hand or possibly the laser guard(if proven)?
Table saws just plain scare me? (don't like stuff I can't control)
Prayers up!
If I can't do my required cutting with either a Milwaukee Jigsaw or sawzall it don't get cut.(course I am not no wood worker either?)
They do have them with the laser/guard setup (supposedly)that will stop before you lose a finger/hand etc.?(brother has em)
I just won't use any of them period.(I have blades for the jig that go to 15"(for cutting say a 6X6 etc.(it's variable with trigger and will cut as slow as doing it by hand if wanted.)
Thank God it wasn't worse.(my buddy lost 3 fingers on a table saw(same thing happened)couple years back)
So for me if I was to ever use one it would be with some type extension instead of hand or possibly the laser guard(if proven)?
Table saws just plain scare me? (don't like stuff I can't control)
Prayers up!
- AJMD429
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 32293
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
- Location: Hoosierland
- Contact:
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
That's exactly what I was thinking...Hobie wrote:That will certainly limit your self expression while driving. Hope you heal quickly.
Yep. Each day is a blessing, doubly so if you're reasonably healthy and in decent shape, infinitely so if your loved ones are as well. Cherish them all.Tycer wrote:Life happens fast don't it? I'm glad it wasn't worse.
Sure reminds us of our mortality and sharpens our gratitude for life.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
- Borregos
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 4756
- Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:40 am
- Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
Oooh that is nasty, heal well friend.
Pete
Sometimes I wonder if it is worthwhile gnawing through the leather straps to get up in the morning..................
Sometimes I wonder if it is worthwhile gnawing through the leather straps to get up in the morning..................
- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6507
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
Every time I use anything that cuts I get nervous! I've had a couple minor mishaps, but nothing like what you described! Hope you heal up quikly!
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
Bummer buddy, get well soon.
Because I Can, and Have
-------------------------------------------------------------
USAF-72-76
God Bless America.
Disclaimer, not responsible for anyone copying or building anything i make.
Always consult an expert first.
-------------------------------------------------------------
USAF-72-76
God Bless America.
Disclaimer, not responsible for anyone copying or building anything i make.
Always consult an expert first.
-
- Levergunner 1.0
- Posts: 60
- Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:12 am
- Location: New Hampshire
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
Gobbler.......I feel your pain......I had to have emergency surgery on my spine and have been half crippled since July 1....and I have three cords sitting there.....I am lucky to have a friend who has been doing the heavy stuff.....anything over 10 lbs! It stinks but @ 57 I cant take the chance of hurting myself worse and asked for help with the wood. I am determined to hunt this year and even if I cant do it all day I will get out....try 3 months of not being able to do a darn thing is depressing, and a friend said its how God keeps us humble.....improvise, adapt , and overcome....winter is almost here....kevin
- kimwcook
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 7978
- Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:01 pm
- Location: Soap Lake, WA., U.S.A.
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
Sorry to hear that, Gobbler. Mechanical tools can put a serious hurt on a person and in the blink of an eye it's done. I've been very lucky so far. I've had some close calls, but nothing serious. I've responded to some really serious accidents in my career as an LEO and I'm not just talking car accidents. Some walked away, some didn't. Be careful guys.
Old Law Dawg
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
sorry to hear this. I hope you heal well. Look forward to your posts here. I am really sorry for the injury.
Mike Johnson,
"Only those who will risk going too far, can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Eliot
"Only those who will risk going too far, can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Eliot
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
Sorry to hear. That is rough. Thinking good thoughts of fast healing for you Gobbler.
Reed.
Reed.
"A righteous man has regard for the life of his beast."
--Proverbs 12:10
--Proverbs 12:10
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
Sorry to hear of your injury. But, you'll heal, and if you're like most of us, you'll be back doing the same old stuff, just a bit more carefully. Hang in there, and keep us posted on the surgery. Prayers up.
Jeepnik AKA "Old Eyes"
"Go low, go slow and preferably in the dark" The old Sarge (he was maybe 24.
"Freedom is never more that a generation from extinction" Ronald Reagan
"Every man should have at least one good rifle and know how to use it" Dad
"Go low, go slow and preferably in the dark" The old Sarge (he was maybe 24.
"Freedom is never more that a generation from extinction" Ronald Reagan
"Every man should have at least one good rifle and know how to use it" Dad
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
GF...glad you're OK...sometimes we get a little too familiar with our tools. You'll be a better man in the future I expect. Just a minor setback...maybe use the time for reflection & rest. Never trust a power tool (I've had my run-ins too) or a horse....the label on the bottle or in the good intentions of a politician. Y'all can trust the boys here though.
Take the time to rest.
LB
Take the time to rest.
LB
- gamekeeper
- Spambot Zapper
- Posts: 17487
- Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:32 pm
- Location: Over the pond unfortunately.
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
+ 1Borregos wrote:Oooh that is nasty, heal well friend.
Whatever you do always give 100%........... unless you are donating blood.
- Ysabel Kid
- Moderator
- Posts: 27918
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:10 pm
- Location: South Carolina, USA
- Contact:
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
+ another. I was just about to head out to the garage to work on a project. Ouch!game keeper wrote:+ 1Borregos wrote:Oooh that is nasty, heal well friend.
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
Ouch.... Be carefull, dangit
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 4738
- Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:00 am
- Location: North Coast of America-Ohio
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
I feel Your pain,I have cut and hurt My hands many times over the years and the older we get the worse it is...two years ago at 55 in a moment of carelessness I broke a knuckle in the palm of My right hand.it swelled up like a golfball and I wrapped it with ducttape everyday. I had to work with it and it took 10 months to heal. lots of Whiskey every nite. . Best wishes on Your recovery.
- 2ndovc
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 9363
- Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:59 am
- Location: OH, South Shore of Lake Erie
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
Sorry to hear that Man!
My Uncle lost a good chunk of the fingers on his right hand while shaping a set a pistol
grips on a plainer.
I lost a nice chunk out of my left palm trying to use a radial arm saw to rip a
piece of oak when it tool off on me( danged stupid thing to do). I sat on the basement floor for at least five minutes
before I could even look at it. Hurt so bad I thought for sure it would be worse than it was.
Best of luck on your surgery!!
jason
My Uncle lost a good chunk of the fingers on his right hand while shaping a set a pistol
grips on a plainer.
I lost a nice chunk out of my left palm trying to use a radial arm saw to rip a
piece of oak when it tool off on me( danged stupid thing to do). I sat on the basement floor for at least five minutes
before I could even look at it. Hurt so bad I thought for sure it would be worse than it was.
Best of luck on your surgery!!
jason
jasonB " Another Dirty Yankee"
" Tomorrow the sun will rise. Who knows what the tide could bring?"
" Tomorrow the sun will rise. Who knows what the tide could bring?"
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
Ouch!
I use power tools like that a lot. Remind me to be more careful.
I use power tools like that a lot. Remind me to be more careful.
-
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1506
- Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:02 pm
- Location: Eastern Ohio, Foothills of Appalachia
- Contact:
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
Well tomorrow afternoon is the surgery and frankly I can't wait. Been walking around with this big wrap on my left hand making it useless. The pain has been manageable with meds, thank heavens. I know what it looks like and it doesn't hurt anything like I think it should. I've been pondering asking for any big bone pieces to make bling with. Maybe a button or hat pin.
Thanks to everyone for caring.
Gobbler
Thanks to everyone for caring.
Gobbler
Click Click Boom
-
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1433
- Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:42 am
- Location: mechanicsville, md.
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
sorry to hear. hope everything goes well. My brother in law lost the tips on three of his fingers while using a table saw. You know what they say. boys and their toys!
Rossi 92 .357 lever , and a cz pcr 9mm
Henry .22 lever, Remington speedmaster 552 .22 lr
Marlin Glenfield .22 boltaction
gforce 12ga semi
Taylor's Tactical 1911 A1 FS in .45acp
winchester 1873 44.40
Marlin 336W .30.30
beeman sportsman rs2 dual caliber pellet rifle
henry .22 magnum pumpaction/octagon barrel
stag 5.56 m4 with reddot
Henry .22 lever, Remington speedmaster 552 .22 lr
Marlin Glenfield .22 boltaction
gforce 12ga semi
Taylor's Tactical 1911 A1 FS in .45acp
winchester 1873 44.40
Marlin 336W .30.30
beeman sportsman rs2 dual caliber pellet rifle
henry .22 magnum pumpaction/octagon barrel
stag 5.56 m4 with reddot
- Old Savage
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 16744
- Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:43 pm
- Location: Southern California
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
Wish you the best in your recovery.
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
I hope you fully recover. Best of luck.
Owen
Owen
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
I had more trouble with the stuff I "Wanted" to do but couldn't than the stuff that needed to be done, I guess I used it as an excuse. Hope the surgery goes well and U heal proper. This too shall pass.
Perry
Perry
Perry in Bangor----++++===Calif
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
Too bad you had a painful reminder that power saws are not very friendly. Hope you heal quickly.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
Yea, those power tools can gitcha quick. Hope it heals quick. I've had a table saw for years, and still, I'm scared of it. That's probably a good thing. Same with my chainsaws.
-
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1506
- Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:02 pm
- Location: Eastern Ohio, Foothills of Appalachia
- Contact:
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
I'm done now. I had surgery at 2, home before 4:30. Not bad. Can't wait for dinner. Doc says to keep it wrapped and to be gentle for the next 8 days until the next visit. I'm glad he wasn't concerned.makes me more comfortable. I would like to get a copy of the x rays for a conversation piece. they said i couldn't have the bone parts. Too bad.
Gobbler
Gobbler
Click Click Boom
- J Miller
- Member Emeritus
- Posts: 14885
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
- Location: Not in IL no more ... :)
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
Gobbler,
OK, two pages later and I want PICS ..............
Been sick as dog the last three days so either post 'em or email 'em to me.
Glad the surgery went well. Don't know why the docs won't let you have the bone fragment, after all they are yours.
Joe
OK, two pages later and I want PICS ..............
Been sick as dog the last three days so either post 'em or email 'em to me.
Glad the surgery went well. Don't know why the docs won't let you have the bone fragment, after all they are yours.
Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts .***
-
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1506
- Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:02 pm
- Location: Eastern Ohio, Foothills of Appalachia
- Contact:
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
Ok. We'll wait for two days until we change the dressing to take a photo or two. No promises. I didn't get to see it today. They had me out before they unwrapped it so i'm guessing as to what to see. I'm betting there's soooooooome kind of scar.
Gobbler
Gobbler
Click Click Boom
- Griff
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 20877
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:56 pm
- Location: OH MY GAWD they installed a STOP light!!!
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
Glad to hear the surgery went well... at least from the Doc's standpoint... but then, mine always tells me that my aches and pains don't hurt a bit! Do what the doc sez. And I'm not sure I need pictures...
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
and i thought you were gonna tell us about drillin' holes.
heal fast.
heal fast.
careful what you wish for, you might just get it.
"BECAUSE I CAN"
"BECAUSE I CAN"
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
Best of luck with the rehab. There's a fine line between pushing an injury and recovering quicker, and going over board and setting your self back. Slow and steady and make a little bit of progress each day. You'll be nearly as good as new in no time.
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
Very sorry to hear! God bless.
Oly
Oly
Cheers,
Oly
I hope and pray someday the world will learn
That fires we don't put out will bigger burn
Johnny Wright
Oly
I hope and pray someday the world will learn
That fires we don't put out will bigger burn
Johnny Wright
-
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1506
- Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:02 pm
- Location: Eastern Ohio, Foothills of Appalachia
- Contact:
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
Dang!
You got stubby fingers!
I hope you heal well.
If you're open to homeopathics, get some Arnica Montana200Ck if you can find them or 30C if the 300s aren't available. It'll help the tissue heal quickly.
You got stubby fingers!
I hope you heal well.
If you're open to homeopathics, get some Arnica Montana200Ck if you can find them or 30C if the 300s aren't available. It'll help the tissue heal quickly.
Last edited by Tycer on Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Kind regards,
Tycer
----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.saf.org - https://peakprosperity.com/ - http://www.guntalk.com
Tycer
----------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.saf.org - https://peakprosperity.com/ - http://www.guntalk.com
- Borregos
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 4756
- Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:40 am
- Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
I was going to say forget the pictures, but I see I am too late. Heal well.
Pete
Sometimes I wonder if it is worthwhile gnawing through the leather straps to get up in the morning..................
Sometimes I wonder if it is worthwhile gnawing through the leather straps to get up in the morning..................
-
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1506
- Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:02 pm
- Location: Eastern Ohio, Foothills of Appalachia
- Contact:
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
Actually I'm very happy with how well and fast it is healing. With the fingernails gone on the ring and index fingers, I'm betting the middle will be up and healed first with only having to heal skin an whatever else was violated inside. Fingernails take a long time to heal and the flesh under them is a little sensitive. Mind you I haven't bent any fingers yet but the pain from moving them at the palm joint is almost nonexistent. I'm feeling pretty positive so far.
Gobbler
Gobbler
Click Click Boom
- Griff
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 20877
- Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:56 pm
- Location: OH MY GAWD they installed a STOP light!!!
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
Look at it this way, you won't have to bend your fingers so far now to count to five... that 6-10 on the other hand's still gonna require more exercise!Gobblerforge wrote:Actually I'm very happy with how well and fast it is healing. With the fingernails gone on the ring and index fingers, I'm betting the middle will be up and healed first with only having to heal skin an whatever else was violated inside. Fingernails take a long time to heal and the flesh under them is a little sensitive. Mind you I haven't bent any fingers yet but the pain from moving them at the palm joint is almost nonexistent. I'm feeling pretty positive so far.
Gobbler
Seriously, glad to hear that you're doin' better. Keep up the hygene regimen... you don't need no setback!
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93
There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!
- 2ndovc
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 9363
- Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:59 am
- Location: OH, South Shore of Lake Erie
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
That had to hurt!
Hope you're not left handed!
jb
Hope you're not left handed!
jb
jasonB " Another Dirty Yankee"
" Tomorrow the sun will rise. Who knows what the tide could bring?"
" Tomorrow the sun will rise. Who knows what the tide could bring?"
- kimwcook
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 7978
- Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:01 pm
- Location: Soap Lake, WA., U.S.A.
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
Looks like you came out pretty good given what it could of been. Heal well brother.
Old Law Dawg
-
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1506
- Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:02 pm
- Location: Eastern Ohio, Foothills of Appalachia
- Contact:
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
I figure I can only count to about 9.6 at this point.Griff wrote:[]
Look at it this way, you won't have to bend your fingers so far now to count to five... that 6-10 on the other hand's still gonna require more exercise!
!
Gobbler
Click Click Boom
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
Good luck GF. A good friend, also a blacksmith, ground up a good bit of a thumb on a big 3 phase grinder. Another lost 3 fingertips on a 6in planer. Yet another stuck a 1/2 in mortising chisel through his hand. Working guys get hurt - lucky that they are toughguys. You have a excellant attitude.
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
Are you referring to the international sign of discontent?Hobie wrote:That will certainly limit your self expression while driving. Hope you heal quickly.
-
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1506
- Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:02 pm
- Location: Eastern Ohio, Foothills of Appalachia
- Contact:
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
My wife was able to put these on the computer for me. Thought you would enjoy them. Everything is healing well and next week I get the last two stitches out. I'm done with bandages now and just wear a leather glove. It pads enough to allow me to barely use the hand. I can't hold weight but the hand is still usable.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Click Click Boom
-
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1362
- Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2007 5:11 pm
- Location: SoCal
Re: I see my future and it's boring.
gobbler,
you said Everything right there: "the hand is still usable." Some downtime is what it is, but the hand is still usable.
ain't nothing boring about that, whether past, present, or future.
Cheers,
Carl
you said Everything right there: "the hand is still usable." Some downtime is what it is, but the hand is still usable.
ain't nothing boring about that, whether past, present, or future.
Cheers,
Carl