Gun Show Observations

[jdad]

We just finished our annual 2 day "collector" show. No Black rifles or modern polymer handguns, no new gun dealers, toys, food, etc. Just real firearms and related stuff. I had very successful 2 days of selling.......and I didn't buy a thing.

My table was directly in line, with the front entrance. I was able to see everyone coming in and the majority of visitors were 40+ to near dead. There were very few under 40 types other than kids that were escorted by grandpa or dad. This got me to thinking about the future of what we consider "vintage" firearms and the hobby of collecting/shooting them. The majority of younger folks I know really don't seem to care for the "fence post, with a sewer pipe attached." They've grown up with video games that show semi-auto black rifles and plastic handguns. This is what they want to "play" with. The market, of purchasers, is shrinking for what we have the nostalgic demand for.

The economy is really affecting purchasing. Dealers that had priced their wares fairly, for the current market, were selling. One dealer behind me did not make a single sale, but the one adjacent sold 8-9 Winchesters. I only saw one high end sale. One dealer sold a beautiful case colored 2nd Model 1890, for $4000. It was one of the finest unmessed with examples I have ever seen. One guy walking the floor had a special order 1894, with a half octagon barrel (30-30) and half mag (with Cody letter), but it was in almost full white condition. He wanted $1400, but the general consensus was that it was an $850 (retail) rifle. He stayed, for several hours, and left with it. There were a lot of people buying Korean War and early gun parts and accessories. Lots of bayonets and scabbards being sold. Sights and scopes were almost selling well.

Just my observations.

[Ysabel Kid]

Wow, a gun show with no junk. I don't think I've ever had the pleasure!

I agree - young folks just don't appreciate guns with character. They like those "soul-less" plastic jobs (nod to JReed for his description). Fortunately, like me, Y2K likes ALL firearms. He appreciates the beauty of a classic and the function of the modern gun. But he's a rare exception today...

[Old No7]

"I agree - young folks just don't appreciate guns with character..."

And that's why those us of here love Gun Shows like that -- we have plenty of characters!!!

Old No7

[DixieBoy]

What's that line from Pulp Fiction ?

Just because you are a character doesn't mean that you have character.

Only kidding around boys; my mind went right to Mr. Wolf's quote when I saw Old No 7's post. - DixieBoy

[olyinaz]

As long as we keep generating 40 year olds I think we'll have a solid gun collector market. I don't think youngins have really ever been into old guns (notable exceptions excluded) any more than young folks have really ever been into antique collecting.

Regards,
Oly

[Sixgun]

Here's my take coming from a guncrank who has been hitting the shows for 40 years. Here in Pa., there is a show just about every weekend if you want to travel 100 miles, most under 50

There are several kinds of shows:
1.) quality collector shows such as the Pa. Ag. Hall, Sunnybrook, Timonium, Md.---You seldom see young people at these shows and if you do, they are tagging along with another guy who has the wallet. Who else but middle aged to near dead people have the bucks to buy this stuff or has the good stuff to trade/sell?

2.) The "firehall shows" where there are 100 tables. Locals or diehard guncranks who have nothing better to do (me? ) are at these shows. Most of the stuff is "across the table" but mostly includes Mossberg pump shotguns, Stevens .22 bolt guns, a few 700 Rem. or possibly the occasional 1894. I see many guys with their wives and kids at these shows. 95% of the people are just "good 'ole boys" looking for something to fill the pot with.

3.) Large attendance drawing shows with 1200 tables which are heavily advertised such as the Pa. Valley Forge Show which has everything from well, about everything, with the focus on black guns, decent hunting guns, class 3 stuff, reloading gear etc. There a mix of everyone at these shows that I don't care to attend as the aisles are crowded and you have to set your alarm on your vehicle out in the parking lot. I usually hit these shows when I need reloading stuff or there ain't nothing else to do.

4. Our gun culture future is great! My buddies gunshop, Targetmaster, is packed everyday with most people being young. Black longguns and semi-auto pistols are flying out the door at an ever increasing rate. There's a few older folks who frequent his place for the collector stuff, but that category is no where near what the young people like. Good---more for me. -------------Sixgun

[Streetstar]

A hunting buddy of mine has a couple of teenagers who use MArlin 336's . I don't know their feelings about black rifles, but they weren't complaining about their 30-30's. They were raised as deer hunters though and not necesarilly rifle shooters. They just use whatever their dad gave them and could care less whether it is a 30-30 or a 243.

But these kids will be 40 themselves in 25 years or so, --- they will go through a phase of using .300 Loudenboomers no doubt too, like a lot of people do, but my thoughts are kids like these will keep everything going when they get nostalgic for the "old stuff" later or just think about how simple and fun hunting was when they were kids.
Then there is my 8 year old nephew -- my 35 year old brother's only rifle is a Model 94 30-30. His has a "carrying handle" mounted, but he doesn't see a need for anything else. He doesn't shoot enough to feel comfortable with a shot past 150 yards and he likes the Winchester -- he will pass this no-nonsense approach down to his boy i hope. If not, i will lead by example as well.

I hope the lever gun genre is in good hands ----- part of the issue is most 30- 40 year olds (at least the ones i encounter) dont understand why i would willingly hunt with a wood stocked 45-70 with a rainbow trajectory when i have a perfectly good synthetic stocked Weatherby with a Leupold scope sitting in the safe beside it

[Mike D.]

I feel much the same as Sixgun about gun shows. I have little use for black guns myself, but that is the direction where most younger folks are heading. Like jdad said, we "mature gentlemen" are about the only souls looking for the "real stuff", vintage American made guns and related items. The reluctance of "gun fishermen" to price their wares fairly is the only reason why sales are slow. Smart dealers realize that in today's economic climate trying to make a killing on guns is not gonna work. Buying a Winchester for $400 and wanting to get $4000 for it doesn't make sense, unless it is a great rarity. Price them where they belong and you will find folks like me opening their wallets.

[6pt-sika]

I used to love to go to gun shows !

And generally I could find bits and pieces at every show I went be it in Virginia , Maryland or Pennsylvania !

Now since I spend 4-6 days a week in my friends shop handling internet sales for both him and myself the desire for me to attend a gun show is limited at best !

I've started attending the "Baltimore Show" in Tommonium and I like to hit "The Forks of Delaware Collectors Association Show" in Easton PA every other year or so and maybe just maybe "The VA Gun Collectores Show" in Mannasas VA . But other then those three I rarely if ever go to a show any more . I have been attending a fair amount of gun auctions but 90% of the time I go to the preview and leave absentee bids .

I just don't care to sit or stand around and listen to the BS or deal with some of the types at the lesser shows anylonger .

[Pete44ru]

I've been going to gun shows since the 1960's, always as an attendee, never holding a table.

IMO, Besides the entertainment & education factors, it's a lot like gold prospecting - a lotta dirt, and every once in a while, a nugget.

I don't care much about price tags being too high - I just pass on down the road, as it were.
There's a LOT of fish in the sea.

Besides, WHERE else can you choose from 15 kinds of jerky ? . . .

.

[jnyork]

I've been going to gun shows since the 1960's, always as an attendee, never holding a table.

IMO, Besides the entertainment & education factors, it's a lot like gold prospecting - a lotta dirt, and every once in a while, a nugget.

I don't care much about price tags being too high - I just pass on down the road, as it were.
There's a LOT of fish in the sea.

Besides, WHERE else can you choose from 15 kinds of jerky ? . . .

.

+1

[bunyan]

Here's my input. I'm 34 years old, which is probably still pretty young to a lot of you guys. But I'm still plenty older than some some shooters out there! I like older firearms. Most modern guns don't have the quality that older ones do. I don't like the ugly warnings stamped on the barrels of newer guns. Of course it could hurt someone...its a firearm! Yes, I do have a slight hankering for the "tacticool" looks of some black guns, but given the choice between a barrett .50 BMG and a shiloh sharps, I would take the shiloh. I'm not a navy seal and don't need to pretend I am one at the range. I do agree that the younger generation of shooters is brought up with video games (and magazines, etc) that push them towards military style guns, but the older guys are also the ones that can afford the nicer, vintage, collectible stuff. Maybe as shooters mellow over time (and aquire more disposable income) and get the rambo syndrome out of their systems they'll develop more interest in leverguns and other finer firearms but if not, then at least the market will make it easier for ME to afford some of the stuff I'd like to put in the gunsafe! I don't mind larger gunshows with a mishmash of guns for sale. The variety is a lot of fun. But I like quality. I went to a local show this past winter. It was small, and other than one table with some real pretty rifles was full of black guns, jerky, girlscout cookies, toys, and some other junky rifles. I was not impressed! Now, I'm probably not your average mid 30's shooter/hunter. I still prefer plaid to camo, sitting on the ground instead of hunting out of a tree, and old guns with wood stocks (mostly) to synthetic stocked microsuperultramag hit 'em on the next ridge rifles. But that's just me!

[fordwannabe]

My two cents, the younger folks for the most part are being raised on Bruce willis, the Rock, and other black rifle toting action "Heros", where most of us thought of Roy, Gene, The lone ranger and THE DUKE as our guys, and the people we wanted to "grow up to be". Now yes JW did on occasion have a 1911(yep I have some of those), a garand(uhhuh got 2 of those), but when I think of JW or any of those other guys, single actions and leverguns are what comes to mind. I am sure there will be some of the younger generation who love and care for the things(or my son is gonna get a visit from a ticked off ghost , after I'm gone) but for the vast majority, I don't think they will appreciate them like we do. These things are memntos of our youth, not so much for the younger crowd. AND I HOPE I AM WRONG.

[Lastmohecken]

I go to the big Tulsa Gun shows and also the local shows. As far as the younger people go, they are probably just like I was when I was young. I couldn't afford the higher dollar old Winchesters, etc, and I am sure that most of them can't either, but they can probably swing $700 to 1000 maybe for a black gun, or less money for a plastic stocked bolt action or something.

I always had a taste for fine double shotguns, and other classic firearms, and now that I am older and more settled in life, I can occasionally afford a resonably nice old gun, but when I was young, I had to pass on those guns, but I would still ask to see and handle them, when I could.

But I recond there is something to it, about the black rifles, and pistols being first on their list. Another reason is in a lot of the gunshops nowdays, plastic stocked everthing is the norm, unlike 30yrs ago, and the younger generation doesn't even get to see or handle, much less shoot a classic piece of blued steel and walnut, anymore.

[Sixgun]

Here's my input. I'm 34 years old, which is probably still pretty young to a lot of you guys. But I'm still plenty older than some some shooters out there! I like older firearms. Most modern guns don't have the quality that older ones do. I don't like the ugly warnings stamped on the barrels of newer guns. Of course it could hurt someone...its a firearm! Yes, I do have a slight hankering for the "tacticool" looks of some black guns, but given the choice between a barrett .50 BMG and a shiloh sharps, I would take the shiloh. I'm not a navy seal and don't need to pretend I am one at the range. I do agree that the younger generation of shooters is brought up with video games (and magazines, etc) that push them towards military style guns, but the older guys are also the ones that can afford the nicer, vintage, collectible stuff. Maybe as shooters mellow over time (and aquire more disposable income) and get the rambo syndrome out of their systems they'll develop more interest in leverguns and other finer firearms but if not, then at least the market will make it easier for ME to afford some of the stuff I'd like to put in the gunsafe! I don't mind larger gunshows with a mishmash of guns for sale. The variety is a lot of fun. But I like quality. I went to a local show this past winter. It was small, and other than one table with some real pretty rifles was full of black guns, jerky, girlscout cookies, toys, and some other junky rifles. I was not impressed! Now, I'm probably not your average mid 30's shooter/hunter. I still prefer plaid to camo, sitting on the ground instead of hunting out of a tree, and old guns with wood stocks (mostly) to synthetic stocked microsuperultramag hit 'em on the next ridge rifles. But that's just me!

Bunyan,
You are an exception. You know quality. Out of 50 gun guys, there is one youngun who knows "where its at". I have been like that since I was about 16, so like you, we both had a head start. --------------------------Sixgun

[6pt-sika]

Now let me start by saying I like fine old WInchester Model 12's and 42's as well as some of the Browning A-5's and the Remington 11 , 11-48 and to a lesser degree the 1100 .

But I grew up in a house where you got a double barrel period . And I do not mean some cut rate spanish job from the 60's or 70's . My old man woulda beat my *** if I bought any side by side other then a nice English gun , a Parker , a L.C. Smith or a Fox . And if it wasn't a SxS it better be a Browning Superposed O/U (there was no way he or I could have paid for a nice British O/U then or now) .

I also grew up in a house that thought Ruger #1's were cool back when they first came out ! Pre 64 Winchesters where also in vogue in our house with Remington being a paltry second ! For lever guns I grew up thinking Marlin's were junk (I have since learned the error of that assumption) . But what I am saying is this stuff was ingrained in me 45 years ago and has run RAMPANT eversince !

Now if the next 50 years go half as well as the first 50 gunwise I have it licked !

[rimrock]

Those of us 50+ were most likely raised to comply with our parents--if you didn't you got hit -- H A R D! So, you also fell into line using whatever type of gun your dad or uncle or grandpa had. Speaking for my kids, I'd say my wife and I gave them more choices in life and less hard punishment, so they feel they can make a choice without being judged by us.

I bought a lever rifle and a single action sidearm to get back into shooting--my choice. When my kids expressed an interest in shooting, I bought my son a bolt Remington and my daughter a inline Black Powder-- their choices. And, we have some mighty good family time makin' smoke!

I do seek to be around families who enjoy shooting together. There's too much know it all attitude at most gun shows so I don't choose to attend them.

rimrock

[Hobie]

We deal 50-50 with young and old. Older folks generally but not always are the ones with money. I've seen some rather young fellas with some rather fine taste and older fellas without any taste at all.

[marlinman93]

Missed the two day show that jdad attended here, but there's probably not a finer collector's show anywhere in the country that's as highly regulated. The folks at OAC have done a great job of filtering out not only what goes on the tables, but who rents a table, in an effort to keep everything as collectable as possible.
I've always enjoyed collectable firearms, but when I was in my 20's I also owned some black rifles, and pistols that weren't collectable. As I matured I sold off most of the non collectable stuff to buy more leverguns and singleshot rifles. I think a lot of guys go through a similar phase where they narrow down their interest in guns to something more interesting.
Most young folks today are shocked at the prices on collectable firearms, which often steers them away from getting started. When they see a shooter rifle going for $500 or less and a old worn out collectable going for 4 times that or more, the choice isn't hard to make for them.
Used to be a lot of guys I knew said a good gun costs a week's wages, but collectable guns have gotten way beyond that for most working folks, and even harder for those raising a family and trying to buy a home. It's not an average guy's game like it was when I started out. We used to buy a lot of neat old singleshot and leverguns for a few hundred dollars, when our salary for the week was only $600. Now those same guns I sell for $2,000-$3,000 and they go fast to older guys.
The internet has made everyone an expert on gun values, and prior to that nobody much knew if some idiot paid twice what a gun was worth. Now when we see some gun go for way too much money it seems to encourage others to try and get the same for their similar gun. If I'm the recipient of that auction that went way too high I'm excited, but as a gun collector every time I see it I know the prices will increase because of that one fluke auction where two guys battled it out and paid too much.