Forward/barrel mounting of scope

[getitdone1]

Wondering if I'd like mounting a regular scope or Aimpoint on the barrel of my Browning BLR. Believe Browning calls this a "Scout Mount." This guns a takedown so with barrel mounting I would stay zeroed after putting it back together.

Which gives the quickest sight picture/target acquisition? Receiver mounted or barrel mounted sight?

Seems to me the Pitcanny (sp?) rail is longer than I'd need for mounting of an Aimpoint type sight. Seems like a small base on the barrel would do for mounting Aimpoint.

Don't want to mount a scope or Aimpoint on barrel and then regret it.

Don

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Wondering if I'd like mounting a regular scope or Aimpoint on the barrel of my Browning BLR. Believe Browning calls this a "Scout Mount." This guns a takedown so with barrel mounting I would stay zeroed after putting it back together.

Which gives the quickest sight picture/target acquisition? Receiver mounted or barrel mounted sight?

Seems to me the Pitcanny (sp?) rail is longer than I'd need for mounting of an Aimpoint type sight. Seems like a small base on the barrel would do for mounting Aimpoint.

Don't want to mount a scope or Aimpoint on barrel and then regret it.

Don

A red dot or low power scout will be fast acquiring but it will limit your range. High power scopes allow you to take the longer shot with confidence but cost you in acquisition particularly if it's mount out front.

This 1886 has a 1x4x pistol scope on it.

[jeepnik]

I mounted a holographic from C-More in the "Scout" position. Very, very fast on target. Good, with my eyes, out to 100yds or so. There's no magnification, but for the distances I shoot, can't see very far anyway, it works well.

[Pete44ru]

FWIW, if scoping with a "Scout" or Intermediate Eye Relief (IER) or Pistol (LER) scope - if you go over 2x, you will find target acquisition harder/slower.

.

[AJMD429]

Which gives the quickest sight picture/target acquisition? Receiver mounted or barrel mounted sight?

'Scout' positioned scopes take some getting used to, and become harder to use the more the magnification. Consider whether or not you really need magnification at all, as well. The 'holographic' sights like the Burris Fastfire-II are awesome in my opinion, and since you can shoot with both eyes open, it adds speed and dusk-usability as well. You maybe could 'cantilever' a mount farther rearward off the front one if you had to have more magnification, but the larger scope and awkward mount would defeat the compactness of having a take-down gun.

[MrMurphy]

The position shown on the Marlin above is fine for most dot scopes.

I tend to run them further back myself, mostly because I primarily shoot AR's and that's the general location best for them on those rifles.

Nothing preventing you running it further out, though some people notice the scope body more when you run it further out than more towards the receiver.

[guido4198]

I put a 2x in a Scout Mount on my Guide Gun and LOVE IT. It works REAL well for me on Deer and Hogs in the SE. I'm having those "aging eyes" issues and have added red dots to some other firearms to keep going at the accuracy levels I require. That said, I only went as far as a Lyman "peep" site on my Win M-71. I spoke with a gentleman who had designed and built a scout mount for his M-71. He reported that it works real well, but I just couldn't do that to mine. If I had one of the Browning copies, I'd go for it, but not my original Winchester. The peep site works well enough if I keep my ranges down. It's all about knowing your limitations, and respecting the animals enough not to take shots beyond your confidence and experience level. Fortunately, in the SE states, we get a lot of close shots.

[Tycer]

Have you tried the scope on the receiver? Did your zero change from disassembly to reassembly of the takedown?

[getitdone1]

Thanks for all the responses.

Tycer,

I think what you're "getting at" is if I mount on receiver, take it down and put back together, I shouldn't lose much if any accuracy. Or, it'll lock-up the same every time.

If I decide to mount on receiver I won't let the little--if any--change in zero bother me. My main concern is if I'll like the scout type of mount and appears--from responses I'm getting--I will. Too, I carry a rifle most of the time in one hand and the scout mount allows wrapping your hand around the receiver rather than have the receiver mounted scope prevent a full grip on receiver.

Don

[rimrock]

I'm ready to mount a Red Dot or receiver scope on my .444 after using a scout mounted 4x Simmons Pistol for about4 years.

rimrock

[guido4198]

Here's mine (45/70):



IMHO....for those who might still be trying to make up their mind, I'd like to add...once again...only my OPINION...fwiw:
4x is too much magnification for the "Scout Mount" concept.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Which gives the quickest sight picture/target acquisition? Receiver mounted or barrel mounted sight?

'Scout' positioned scopes take some getting used to, and become harder to use the more the magnification. Consider whether or not you really need magnification at all, as well. The 'holographic' sights like the Burris Fastfire-II are awesome in my opinion, and since you can shoot with both eyes open, it adds speed and dusk-usability as well. You maybe could 'cantilever' a mount farther rearward off the front one if you had to have more magnification, but the larger scope and awkward mount would defeat the compactness of having a take-down gun.

I agree. This is a fast setup but still accurate to at least 100yds.

[jeepnik]

You know, I stuck the C-More on my GS before the Fastfire came along. I've been thinking about going to one on my Model 39 as a test bed. Besides, I can "kill" as many cans as I want without worrying about tags.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

You know, I stuck the C-More on my GS before the Fastfire came along. I've been thinking about going to one on my Model 39 as a test bed. Besides, I can "kill" as many cans as I want without worrying about tags.

I recommend the FastFire for the rossi's mainly because the stock drops too much for anything higher. Those pictured are mounted without a rail.

[getitdone1]

Steve Young,

Exactly how is that Burris FastFire mounted? Looks like in the original rear sight dovetail of the barrel.

The typical rail looks like overkill and ugly to me for small dot sights.

Can I get by without typical rail, somehow, mounting Aimpoint or Burris FastFire on my Browning BLR? No rear sight dovetail on this Browning.

I may start with Burris FastFire on BLR and if don't like this combo put it on my Glock handgun. Think I might really like it on the Glock. It's 4 MOA dot no problem with handgun but prefer 2 MOA on rifle, therefore final move on BLR may be an Aimpoint with 2 MOA dot.

If I didn't have flatter shooting bolt-actions for long shots I'd put a regular scope on .308 BLR. After this 1X power experiment it might end-up with regular scope mounted on receiver and the Aimpoint then put on my Mini-14--which may be where I should put it in the first place.

Don

[scarville]

I am a big fan of the forward mounted IER scope. I wrote this back in 2009 shortly after I bought a takedown BLR.

-------------------
Why I like the Scout Rifle Concept

When I bought my BLR takedown I originally intended to put a conventional over the receiver scope on it. Probably a 2-7X33 like on its older brother. However, three factor contributed to trying a scout set up.

First, I had carpal tunnel relief surgery on my wrists. The surgeon warned me that, while I will be able to return to work in a few days, it may be six months before I get full strength and use back. That pretty much meant that any hunting plans for that year were out. There was no time pressure to get the rifle ready for a hunt.

Second, I already had an XS scout mount on my Marlin 1894C which I paired with a Bushnell holosight. This turned out to be a good combination.

Thirdly, Browning offers a scout mount for the take down model. So I figured, "what the heck." I could always go back to a regular scope. Because I mount my scopes as low as the rifle allows I remove the factory rear sight on the BLR anyways so there would be no loss there.

At first, I put on one of the "spare" holosights. This worked as well as expected but the lack of magnification limited me to 150 yards which, while adequate for many purposes, is well below the capability of the 308 round. I decided to try an el cheapo pistol scope just to see if this scout thing was viable. I ordered an NcStar 2-7X32 LER scope with illuminated reticule for $55 from Opticsplanet.

The weekend after the scope arrived, I mounted it to the BLR using a set of Leupold QRW rings. The first time I shouldered the rifle to check to see if the eye relief was good I noticed something remarkable.

I am right handed with a left dominant eye -- a situation found in about one-third of all right handed persons. In 30 years of shooting, I've tried numerous peep sights, scopes, red dots, and holosights and with every one I had the same problem: When I bring the rifle to my shoulder, my brain wants to pick the left eye image and it takes 500 milliseconds or so to shift my perception and get a proper sight picture. Even with years of practice I still sometimes have to close or partially close my left eye to use any of the above sights right handed.

With the forward mounted scope my brain immediately picked out the magnified image as the correct one. I was so surprised at this that I got a rifle with a conventionally mounted scope to double check. Sure enough, with the the conventional mounting I had to concentrate to pick out the proper sight picture from the double image. With the forward mounted scope the right eye image immediately was the preferred one.

Out of curiosity, I put a Nikon 1X20 Buckmaster on the BLR. With an eye relief of 4.5 to 14 inches I could put it at about the same distance from my eye as the NcStar scope. Since the Nikon lacks any magnification, I could get an idea if it was the forward mount alone or the combination of forward mounting with magnification that was making the difference. I suspected the latter case because the holosights in the forward position on my Marlin 1894 didn't make any difference.

When I shouldered the rifle with the Nikon scope in place it was business as usual: Double image, concentrate, then see the crosshair on the target. So, for some reason, the combination of magnification and long eye relief enables my brain to shift gears fast enough that I don't know it's happening. I don't yet understand why this is so but I certainly welcome it.

Now I have to find the perfect scout scope.
--------------------

Since then I 've decided that, among the available option, the Leupold 2.5X28 is the closest fit to my needs on the BLR. I tried the 1.5-4X28 IER on it but the eye relief at 4X was just too short for comfort. Fortunately that scope works great on my Marlin 1894. I've also got a little better at picking out the right eye image so even the 1X Nikon works on my JR Carbine.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Steve Young,

Exactly how is that Burris FastFire mounted? Looks like in the original rear sight dovetail of the barrel. The typical rail looks like overkill and ugly to me for small dot sights.

Can I get by without typical rail, somehow, mounting Aimpoint or Burris FastFire on my Browning BLR? No rear sight dovetail on this Browning.

I may start with Burris FastFire on BLR and if don't like this combo put it on my Glock handgun. Think I might really like it on the Glock. It's 4 MOA dot no problem with handgun but prefer 2 MOA on rifle, therefore final move on BLR may be an Aimpoint with 2 MOA dot.

If I didn't have flatter shooting bolt-actions for long shots I'd put a regular scope on .308 BLR. After this 1X power experiment it might end-up with regular scope mounted on receiver and the Aimpoint then put on my Mini-14--which may be where I should put it in the first place.

Don

I use the stock dovetail but cut another one just in front of it then made two separate mounts to fit the the FastFire base.

[pricedo]

Have you tried the scope on the receiver? Did your zero change from disassembly to reassembly of the takedown?

NO........not on my rifle.
Sometimes people remind me of the flock of Muscovy ducks in our barnyard.
Ducks can be a comical bird in regards to their propensity to blindly "follow the leader".
Every so often a duck will start walking in a random direction for whatever reason and the others will follow it.......no rhyme or reason......just unquestioningly follow it.
Somebody posts that you need to barrel mount scopes on BLR Takedown rifles & it's instant Gospel according to Bullfeathers.
I have a BLR (Miroku gold trigger) Model 81 Lightweight in .308 Win with the Leupold 2-7x33mm "Rifleman" scope mounted on the receiver & have had no trouble with loss of zero after several take-downs & re-assemblies.
I'm talking about MY rifle........it may be different for other BLRs.
Only 1 way to find out for sure.......try it.
I hate barrel mounted scopes.

[FWiedner]

On my short range rifles (zero 100yds or less) I've gotten into co-witnessing sights. I put both iron and red or green-dot sights on them and zero them at the same range.

For those rifles that I zero at 100yds +, I do the same thing but I mount a scope and irons, and zero at the same range.

I still want my firearm to be useful even if the accessories get trashed. Worse comes to worst, I just dismount the primary optic and go with the back-up iron.

The red/green-dot holographic sight is the best thing to happen in short range optics since the bulls-eye target. Receiver mount, barrel mount, scout mount doesn't matter as long as you can see the dot. Just depends on the sight-picture you personally prefer.

Oh, yeah... here's some magic words...

Extra batteries.

[Old Savage]

Looks ridiculous to me and I see no advantage to it.

[Dave]

I am a big fan of the scout scope on a lever. I have killed many deer with my Marlin. After using it a lot here is what I think.

The scout set up shines at ranges from 0-150 yards on deer. In the woods, in broken areas with some woods and some open spots it is great. At longer ranges the low power scope doesn't pull your target in. The low magnification really just seems "sharpen" the target even at close range.

Of course you don't have to have a lot of magnification to hit. The bullet will land on the crosshair. You just don't have the ability to pick a super fine aiming point at longer range.

If you think your use of your gun will be usually at 0-100 yards with 150 being your long shot you will probably like the scout set up. It makes for and easy carrying gun and since the weight of the scope is farther forward than usual it gives the gun better hang.

The way I estimate range is if can see the deer is a big one I want to shoot it has to fill up the area between the thick part of the duplex reticle top to bottom based on an 18" deer. If it does not that deer is beyond 150 yards.

I have killed deer out to a sho' nuff 200 yards on a perfect broadside shot but don't like to shoot far. Usually my problem is the deer is so close I can't raise my gun.

[Mescalero]

Dave,
Nice, I like that.

[Dave]

Dave,
Nice, I like that.

Thanks! I feel very fortunate to have that gun. If I told you how well it shoots you would think I was fibbing I bought it at a pawn shop for $179 and it has turned out to be the perfect gun for me.

[Mescalero]

mounted properly on the barrel like that,scope and rifle are on the path to true enlightenment

[Paladin]

Dave,
Nice, I like that.

I agree and have the done the same to make up for my vision on a couple of mine.

[pricedo]

I have 3 Rossi Puma 92s (.357 Mag, .44 Mag, .454 Casull) + 1 Chiappa 92 in .44 Mag + 2 Marlins (.30-30, .35 Rem) that have NO scopes on them at all.
Iron sights is the "natural state" of a levergun unless of course your vision constraints necessitate using a scope.
My 2 BLR Takedowns (.308 Win, .300 Win Mag) + 1 Rossi Rio Grande (.30-30) + 1 Ruger 96/44 (.44 Mag) have receiver mounted scopes & shoot fine.
I employ Warne QD mounts so the scopes can be quickly removed in favor of the iron sights which I sight in for 50 or 100 yards depending on the rifle.
Like I said they shoot fine..........if they didn't I'd probably look at barrel mounted scopes.........my mind is not closed to the idea but if something is working I usually don't mess with it.