Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
I came across a decent looking Sharps but being a NOVICE regarding Sharps rifles...I thought I'd seek some thoughts from anyone here who enjoys these cool old rifles.
Here are a the pics I took. The gun can be had for a tad under 4k.
It's bore is as clean as a new rifle and the rifling is deep and looks great. The lever mechanism is smooth and feels real nice.
Would this be a Model 74?
What about the fore-end stock...does this look correct.
I see a couple screws missing. One on top (perhaps a screw for hole for a tang sight?)
Below near the trigger...don't have a clue on this one.
The rear sight is not real tight...actually it's a bit worn...it does not stand at rigid attention and moves easily fore & aft.
45 Calibre...would it likely be a 45/70? A 45/70 snap-cap fit in the chamber. I realize it might be another caliber...checking before I purchase may be problematic.
Any and all comments are greatly appreciated....I'm thinking on this gun and could use some input.
I am not an expert on metalic cartridge Sharps rifles. I do own a percussion sharps and heve 'read the books'.
One point 'shouts at me' It looks like there is a rear sling swivel but no front swivel???
There are a couple of knowledgeable folks on this forum but I would suggest that you take this to the Sharps forum. http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/ Those knowledgeable folks are over there, too.
Sincerely,
Hobie
"We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best that we find in our travels is an honest friend." Robert Louis Stevenson
I agree with Hobie. I'd go to here http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/ and see what they have to say. It's a 74 and the missing small screw on the tang is for a tang sight. As far as caliber goes I think you're going to have to cast it to find out for sure, but my guess it's 45-70 (2.1). Looks in fairly decent shape.
IIWM, I'd want something to shoot and shoot frequently, and I'd spend a lot less $$$ on a modern replica from Pedersoli that has the benefit of CNC machining and modern metallurgy, in either 45-70 or 45-90.
No wait -- that's exactly what I did about four years ago, a Pedersoli 1874 Sharps Business Rifle in 45-70.
NOTE: Always half-cock the hammer on an 1874 Sharps before opening the action.
Noah
Might as well face it, you're addicted to guns . . .
Most of the ones I've seen had the chamber length marked on the barrel in inches and fractions. 45-70 would be 45 calibre 2 1/10th. Some guns had the chambers lengthened after leaving the factory, so looking in the chamber can sometimes give clues as to current chambering. You may also be able to slide a new (unsharpened) pencil or something similar into the chamber and feel where the front edge of the chamber is, hold your fingernail at that rear end of the barrel, and measure it that way. If you've seen enough of them, you can tell just by looking. 45-70 is 2 1/10th inch, 45-90 is 2 and 3/10th inch long I believe. 45-100 is 2 and 4/10ths inch long. I think the longer one is rarer and later. If it isnt factory, the value may not be much different. I think a few guns were ordered unchambered, and the dealer or gunsmith chambered them to order. Don't know how common that was, any 45 2 1/10th chambered gun (45-70) could be easily rechambered for longer cartridges. Not all that were rechambered were marked for length after rechambering.
The guy I knew that collected and traded Sharps would generally shoot 45-70's in longer chambers, but he didnt shoot them much. He'd usually figure out a way to shoot at least a few rounds thru each one tho. Good fun.
The missing screw on the top tang is for a tang sight. Not sure what the lower tang screw hole is from.
Many of the old guns had loose parts. They were used hard for the most part. I wouldnt sweat the sight being a little loose. You may be able to snug it up without hurting it.
I believe that gun is a '74, it doesnt show evidence of being a percussion gun converted to cartridge. Many buffalo guns were Civil War percuassion carbines converted to cartridge. The factory did many of them, especially before the '74 model came out. I believe the gun is what Sharps called a "Business Rifle", medium length and weight round barel, single trigger (set triggers were available but optional), just a basic working gun, not too heavy, not too light.
The swivel on the butt stock is interesting. They were mainly used on military rfiels as far as I know, but the rifles generally had a patch box on the stock. I wouldn't automatically assume it's not original to the gun tho. Hard to say what happened 130-40 years ago, and in the intervening years.
Don't know what the current value is on them. It may be a decent deal, but I don't know. The Shiloh forum will probably give you some more information.
Noah was posting as I was typing. Not a bad idea, tho if you can afford it, there's nothing quite like shooting an original Sharps rifle. I think if I was looking for a shooter and didnt want to shoot an original too much, (and could afford one), I'd go with a C Sharps or Shiloh Sharps. Same idea as Winchester 1886's. I'd rather have an original than a modern copy, but if I had a modern copy, I'd like the best one available. YMMV.
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt-
Isnt it amazing how many people post without reading the thread?
Looks to be a business rifle. If the only barrel marking is 45 cal, it's a 45 2.1, which while similar to the 45-70 government is not quite the same animal. The Sharps guns were mostly designed to shoot a paper patch round, with a 420gr bullet of Patched diameter of .451. They did offer a "naked" bullet of the same diameter with grease grooves.The chambers are quite a bit tighter than what we have today and may or may not allow a modern 45-70 round to chamber.
The only way to know for sure what's what with that chamber is to do a chamber cast.
4K isn't out of line for a rifle in that good of condition. Have seen some higher and some cheaper. In the end the value is what ever you determine it to be to you.
Either C Sharps or Shiloh can rehabiltate the old girl if it needs something done to it.
Great information gentlemen. Many thanks. I will read (and re-read) this information later and put a post on the other forum later today. Again...many thanks for the detailed and lengthy responses to my questions. Bob
My initial reaction is that it has a military butt stock on it --witness the lever lock. And as one poster mentioned, there is no front swivel. Could very well be a military conversion.
See picture #15 -- showing the caliber stamp. Was something else covered over or obliterated to the left of it??
For that ‘kinda’ money, I would want a Sharps factory letter to document it. As well a an extended inspection period for someone knowledgeable about the original Sharps to carefully go over it.
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are just about done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
Grand Poo Bah WA F.E.S.
In real life may you be the bad butt that you claim to be on social media.
They did offer a "special military" rifle for target practice with a 30 inch round barrel.
Part of the problem identifying Sharps rifles is they had alot of options and would gladly build the rifle with any and all of the options you wished, including sling swivels for .50 and another .50 to install them.
The folks at C Sharps can help get a factory letter for the rifle if it comes to wanting/needing one.
I am not a expert in anything to do with sharps rifles but I do have a almost unbeliveable story about one for you. About 35 years ago I was a lockheed guard. We had a strike going on. One of the lockheed wheels in PR decided to pass the time and sat with me one night in my patrol car to observe the strikers. We got talking guns. He told me he had a old sharps rifle that had been in the family for generations. He was thinking of selling it and buying a handgun. I came awake! Shortly I traded him a new s&w model 27 8 3/8" barrel for it. It was I belive a 1862 carbine with the goverment conversion to 50-70. The bore looked like a mirror and the general rifle looked every bit as good condition as the one on this thread!
Sometime latter "Bob" got ahold of me and said his family hadnt forgave him for trading the gun off! I said okay bob, I will trade you back. He said I cant, I sold the smith! I said okay, give me the price of the smith. He almost stepped on top of my head running for the credit union atm! Nice guy, aint I? I knew what that gun was worth at the time too!
Noah Zark wrote:IIWM, I'd want something to shoot and shoot frequently, and I'd spend a lot less $$$ on a modern replica from Pedersoli that has the benefit of CNC machining and modern metallurgy, in either 45-70 or 45-90.
No wait -- that's exactly what I did about four years ago, a Pedersoli 1874 Sharps Business Rifle in 45-70.
NOTE: Always half-cock the hammer on an 1874 Sharps before opening the action.
Noah
That is certainly true of the originals with the solid firing pin.
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If you can read this in English, thank a Vet! COMNAVFORV, Vietnam 68-70
NRA Life, SASS Life, Banjo picking done cheap!
Leverluver wrote:Because, with the hammer down, the firing pin WILL stay extended so when you lower the breech block, it will shear off the nose of the pin, and score the rim recess.
Some shooters would re cock the rifle & pull the trigger so the hammer would drive the firing pin into the fired primer far enough to make double sure nothing was hung up in the block, as some types of primers of the day were very soft and would flow back into the works...Some think having a spare firing pin is still a good idea what with the corners that are turned to get a centerfire cartridge fired from a side hammer rifle... Modern replicas have spring retractractable firing pins and a true half cock...
"IT IS MY OPINION, AND I AM CORRECT SO DON'T ARGUE, THE 99 SAVAGE IS THE FINEST RIFLE EVER MADE IN AMERICA."
WIL TERRY
Booger Bill wrote:I am not a expert in anything to do with sharps rifles but I do have a almost unbeliveable story about one for you. About 35 years ago I was a lockheed guard. We had a strike going on. One of the lockheed wheels in PR decided to pass the time and sat with me one night in my patrol car to observe the strikers. We got talking guns. He told me he had a old sharps rifle that had been in the family for generations. He was thinking of selling it and buying a handgun. I came awake! Shortly I traded him a new s&w model 27 8 3/8" barrel for it. It was I belive a 1862 carbine with the goverment conversion to 50-70. The bore looked like a mirror and the general rifle looked every bit as good condition as the one on this thread!
Sometime latter "Bob" got ahold of me and said his family hadnt forgave him for trading the gun off! I said okay bob, I will trade you back. He said I cant, I sold the smith! I said okay, give me the price of the smith. He almost stepped on top of my head running for the credit union atm! Nice guy, aint I? I knew what that gun was worth at the time too!
I cannot honestly say I would have been that nice
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !
Guys...MANY thanks!
I've decided I am ignorant enough on Sharps rifles to let this gun go. Instead I will start reading about the guns and perhaps purchase a Shiloh Sharps to shoot. If I am patient (or lucky), perhaps I can pick one up worth the money where I can shoot it and if for some reason I decide I can live without it...I can sell it and get my money back. We will see.
Again...you all were very helpful and I truly appreciate all your suggestions and comments.
Bob there's some pretty good ones on the various auction sites right now, some are over priced a good bit, and some not to bad. You can also call Shiloh and see what they have on the rack, or order thru Bill Goodman and cut the wait down a 1/3.
C Sharps maintains a fairly good inventory of rifles ready to roll out the door also.
6 pt sitka, What go`s around comes around. Whats the statute of limitations? Let me bare my soul on something. I belive the other principals are dead now anyway. I have always been a soft touch. When "Bob" told me his family was mad at him and wouldnt forgive him I could relate and got "soft". A little background here. Bob was a big wheel, head of PR and CR. Thats one of the biggest companys in the world. Not long after that another now deceased guard got in trouble selling a gun on company property. Frankly, I was probley the most "repital" gun nut there. In other words I was probley the biggest well known gun nut on the department. Probley my reputation was the reason gun`s was even brought up by bob asking my advice. The guard that got fired, (He eventualy got his job back, and I just might have had a part in that, (read between the lines), was a royal pain in the butt on the job. He was also a gun nut/collector and a good one. However, as a guard he liked to harass people with his authority. He made a few enimeys. He was set up by a employee and brought in a gun to sell that the employee was interested in. He was reported, investigated and fired. Knowing him I am quite sure he must have ratted me too trying to get out of it. Other gun collectors on the department were called in and questioned, I knew one who even agreed to takeing a lie detector test! Oddly, I was totaly left alone and not called in to be sweated, yet I belive I was the best known and most likely type to be the first to be grilled!
This all was many, many years ago. I belive to this day I hold the longest senority as a guard for lockheed and that is a big place! They let me keep my #1 badge when I retired. I had very little trouble on that job my entire career. But then again, I wasnt ambitious to be a captain or chief, and my take on my job was to keep my boss`s out of trouble. Worked for me! I done 35 years at it, never was laid off.
There fixed it for ya. 
