OT - feeding problems in 1911 (and other semiauto pistols)

[AJMD429]

Anyone know why a full magazine of cartridges sometimes will have the bullet-ends tipped downwards, even in a barely tepered round like .45 ACP...?

I get this in (double-stack) 9mm guns, too, but my son's new .45 ACP is having feeding problems from it. The top round will be up flush against the magazine feed-lips, ready to slide into the chamber when stripped off by the slide, but the second round will be nose-down a bit, so the rear of the cartridges touch each other, but the front edge of the brass is maybe 1/8" from the front of the top round, allowing the friction between rounds to cause the top one to tip nose-down and stub into the ramp.

This happens with all sorts of magazines - Colt brand, off-brands of both 'fancy' and generic type, and regardless of ammo type.

The ball ammo is more forgiving, and with a very smooth and properly angled ramp, it will cycle reliably, but it just doesn't seem like a barely-tapered round should have that problem.

Essentially, the rounds strip-off the magazine with the top-rear impacted by the slide, and the round become tipped nose-down vs. parallel to the magazine lips, so they have the tendency to ram the bullet tip into the very lowest portion of the frame you could begin to call the 'ramp'. Only the best bullet and smoothest ramp therefore allow feeding, when it seems if the darned magazines were constructed to push the cartridges upwards without letting the bullet-nose ends drop like that, the guns would feed more reliably.

A magazine for tapered cartridges like the .223 solves this by being curved, like the Mini-14 ones, but the barely-tapered .45 ACP and 9mm shouldn't drop their 'noses' like that, but with most magazines I've really looked at, they do.

Anyone shed some light on this?

[J Miller]

The last time I had that happen with a 1911 design the slide stop protruded too far into the mag well and was catching on the rounds. I took a bit of metal off and all was well.

The clue is it's not a magazine nor ammo problem so it must be a gun problem.

Joe

[kimwcook]

I find it's weak magazine spring pressure that causes the round to push down. I've had all major brand magazines do it.

[Sixgun]

I find it's weak magazine spring pressure that causes the round to push down. I've had all major brand magazines do it.

Yes, that combined with too strong of a recoil spring. The slide wants to come back to battery too fast and if the mag spring is not pushing up real strong, the slide will push the round downward.

I bet it don't happen when you cycle it by hand. ---------------Sixgun

[Old Ironsights]

Also, with "modern" (read, over engineered, over tight) 1911's JMB's design of "bump-feed" doesn't work properly when coupled with any of the above + non-ball ammo.

Grab a properly loose Remington Rand without a feed ramp and I bet those mags work just fine...

[Malamute]

I've had pretty good results from Colts pistols and factory magazines. Not perfect, but pretty good.


I discovered that I never had feed issues with the Smith 29 no matter what loads I used.

[kimwcook]

I discovered that I never had feed issues with the Smith 29 no matter what loads I used.

That's good.

[olyinaz]

Several things come to mind but often it is a mix-match of recoil spring to magazine spring strength. Go to Wolff springs and look into a new standard recoil spring or extra strength magazine springs for the situation you describe. I've had several auto pistols that were jam masters return to perfect functionality with a new set of springs (recoil, magazine, extractor if the pistol has one, and firing pin if it has one etc.) I usually do them all at once so that I'm sort of starting from ground zero as far as the springs go. If the problem still exists I know that I need dig deeper.

Cheers,
Oly

[Kansas Ed]

Several things come to mind but often it is a mix-match of recoil spring to magazine spring strength. Go to Wolff springs and look into a new standard recoil spring or extra strength magazine springs for the situation you describe. I've had several auto pistols that were jam masters return to perfect functionality with a new set of springs (recoil, magazine, extractor if the pistol has one, and firing pin if it has one etc.) I usually do them all at once so that I'm sort of starting from ground zero as far as the springs go. If the problem still exists I know that I need dig deeper.

Cheers,
Oly

+1 on all that. The only thing I would add is that Wolff Springs website is actually http://www.gunsprings.com/

One other thought: I bought a Springfield P-9 .40SW ISPC Comp gun several years back. This was a factory race gun made in the 80's by Springfield and based on the CZ75. It was a total jam master. I replaced all the springs to no avail. Both factory mags were jammers. Finally I bit the bullet and just replaced the mags themselves...wallah...no more jams. I think the metal was worn on the mag catch slots which was allowing the mags to drop down slightly.


Ed

[Lastmohecken]

There's lots of different styles of magazine followers, and sometimes purchasing a good quality mag with a different style follower will make all of the difference. I have found that cheap magazines are often the problem.

The slide stop as was mentioned by another poster can sometimes be an issue. But more often then that, it's the extractor on a 1911. It needs to be adjusted correctly and you need to make sure that it doesn't have a real sharp edge or burr that can keep the brass from sliding up the breach face as it's stripped from the mag. A bad extractor can cause a feeding issue, not just an extraction problem. This also happened to me on a Browning Hi-Power in 40cal.

I was also noticing that the soft brass rims of the fired cases had some bad looking scraps of brass missing where the extractor probably shaved them as they were being fed from the mag.

I was having the same problem with a round taking a nose dive, on almost every mag full. I purchased some new mags, but I suspected the extractor had a burr. So, after I fired a new box of steel cased ammo through the new mags (I was trying different brands of ammo, too), then the nose dives stopped with all mags, and all of the different brands of ammo.

I believe the steel cased ammo, which is supposed to be hard on extractors anyway, wore and cleaned up the extractor, and played the biggest part in fixing the problem. This gun as been 100% reliable ever since.

Another thing to consider is proper spring rates, and the shorter the gun, espacally 1911's then the more critical it is that all springs are balanced, to create the proper timming of the mag and the slide, because it happens faster, where a 5 inch gun, or commander will have a little more room for variations in spring pressure. That is why many people will not trust the little 3 inch guns, and they do seem to have more troubles, or at least I hear of more problems with them, and springs have to be replaced more often, although I do have a little 3 inch Kimber that has not missed a lick, yet, but it has not been shot a lot, and that is where I have been told the little 3 inch guns will eventually need springs sooner then the bigger guns.

[Cruise]

AJ,

Swing on over to The Sight . . . a wealth of 1911 stuff there.
http://forums.1911forum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7

Find the brand of pistol your son has and noodle around in the posts. I am sure there are others with the same issue.
Mag springs would be my first suspicion but there are a lot of idiosyncrasies in a 1911 that can cause FTF (failure to feed). HP ammo being one of them. They like ball best, at least mine do without extra work done to the gun.