OT: Insurance firearm value questions

[J Miller]

We just changed insurance companies. The renters policy has a flat standard dollar amount for firearms. It's a pretty sure bet that mine will exceed that amount. I can buy additional coverage.

So here is the questions:

None of my guns are new, all are used, none of them are collector grade, most of them are altered a bit but not to the level of a gunsmith custom.

Besides posting pics and having 500 different responses of how much they are worth, how can I get a reasonable replacement value for the insurance?

Joe

[Hobie]

Have them professionally appraised. Or... take your chances.

[J Miller]

If I had anything really super valuable I would. I don't and appraisers cost money. Seems like there has to be an easier less expensive way.

Joe

[Hobie]

The insurance companies I've dealt with want an appraisal in writing from an "expert", i.e a professional in the field. Not everyone requires a fee. The appraisal needs a complete description, photos might be a good thing, and a signature. Letterhead of some type still impresses, or so it seems. I'm sure it varies a lot from place to place, agency to agency, for lots of reasons.

[rimrock]

for ease of discussion, let's say your policy has a $2,500 limit for guns. You could rely on the stated limit to apply to all guns so that the insurer would pay you up to $2,500 for a total loss of the guns. Or, you could put the guns on a list (schedule them) to declare a value not to exceed $2,500 unless you buy a larger limit.

Under an actual cost value policy, your insurance company will pay replacement cost less depreciation ( what a willing buyer would pay a willing seller, neither compelled to act). So, a Marlin 30/30 that today is advertised at 459.00 would not be worth $459 in five years if it depreciated at a reasonable rate. However, if that model became collectible, then there's room for disagreement on the depreciation.

Your policy could also reimburse you on a replacement cost basis ( what it would cost to buy a reasonably close, but not necessarily exact, replacement. Still room for a lot of disagreement. Best thing to do is for you and insurer to agree when the policy is purchased what will be the value of those guns in the future. You can get informal appraisals by reviewing guns for sale on the Internet as a start. There's a lot of room for reasonable disagreement between you and the insurer over these terms, but replacement cost does offer the broadest coverage, usually.

The key for you as a consumer is to remove emotional considerations for the future when you might become irrational during a claim. Know what your guns are worth to you today so you can begin to have a plan for their future value.

rimrock

[Chas.]

Under an actual cost value policy, your insurance company will pay replacement cost less depreciation...

I'm confused. New cost less depreciation makes sense; replacement cost makes sense; but replacement cost less depreciation makes no sense.

[Ysabel Kid]

Joe, this is why I went with a big safe years ago. The cost of the safe was what it would have cost me to cover the firearms for 1-2 years. Many of my guns have such a high sentimental value to me that they could never be replaced, even if I got one of the same make, model and vintage.

I recommend discussing with your insurance agent what they would accept as a valuation means. If they accept it, a little research on the internet, like listing what 2-3 very comparable guns recently sold for on GunBroker.com, may be the way to go. It wouldn't cost you anything other than time.

Just a thought, but I would first find out what would be acceptable. IIRC, the NRA offers some good gun insurance, so you may want to check them out as well. As rimrock noted, make sure you and your insurer are in complete agreement, in writing, on the valuation of each item and the replacement valuation.

[J Miller]

Well, right now I'll have to see what the insurance co says. There is no funds for a safe, and I know of no appraisers in this area.

Joe

[Old Ironsights]

Your best bet for quick appraisal would be to take the lot up to Moline to RIA and have somebody look at them. I took a few over there a few years ago and had no issues and no cost except the drive.

Not only that, if you go, bring a drool bucket... because while your guns might not be worth much, the stuff you will see there will make your head spin. Totally worth the drive for no other reason.

[AJMD429]

We once had a plan that had a maximum payout of $1,000 for theft, but $5,000 for other causes of loss, so you might inquire about that - it could affect your storage options. For instance if you're basically just screwed if they're stolen, but fire-damage would be covered, secure 'hiding' would prevent the former, and insurance cover the latter. On the other hand, if the fire-damage coverage would also be so limited, then you need a fire-proof, vs. just theft-proof storage method.

At a minimum, I think I'd photograph each one, including a close-up of the serial number, and keep that off-site. I'd encrypt it or keep it in a safe deposit box, lest the list itself get stolen, and used as a 'shopping list' by some thief. Then start calling around and getting options and prices.

Good luck.

[SteveR]

Joe,

My insurance agent recommened the NRA's insurance coverage as being pretty good and at no additional cost other than membership. Might be worth looking at as a way to add additional coverage with out buying a rider to your renters policy. Not sure if any laws prevent you from claiming a loss on 2 different insurance policies.

http://www.nraendorsedinsurance.com/

Steve

[SFRanger7GP]

I went with the NRA insurance. They have a great record and they cover whatever firearms I am traveling with as well. If I didn't have a safe I would make that my priority next purchase. If funds are an issue with no light on the horizon, I would look at modifying and old freezer or refrigerator as my gun safe/hide. I have seen some pretty good ones.

[Old Time Hunter]

My insurance company uses The Blue Book of Gun Values, average condition unless you can prove it otherwise. I take pictures of each and an electronic file catagorizing each, including purchase price, date, and current value (100% is NIB). So far I have been lucky as to not have needed it, but you never know. Saw last year that my policy had a $2500 ceiling on it, confronted my agent...he said oops, new company policy, they all went out with ceiling on firearms. I kicked and screamed and told him to bring his wife (she actually owns the agency) so I could dicker on the coverage. They finally relented and took the ceiling off, but raised my homeowners premium by only $50...took alot of dickering.

[rodeo kid]

Joe, my insurance co had a $5,000 max limit. So I got declared value insurance over that. They required a prof. apppraisal. I found a large gunstore in Oklahoma City that will appraise a collection for a flat $75.00, and since I have 39 firearms I thought that was more than fair, raised my my homeowners insurance by $46 a year. Even with two safes I thought that was fair and worthwhile. God Bless.

[Chas.]

We do not require appraisals ...At the time of loss, you provide adjuster with list of items damaged (pictures are helpful if you have them) and the adjuster will determine the replacement value of the items at the time of the loss.

Now that makes sense. Any appraisal done today, won't be worth spit 5 or 10 years from now due to economic fluctuations and appreciation/depreciation of firearms. Collectibles have a way of changing value independent of the economy.

[Booger Bill]

I had a bad experiance with my insurance company years ago. My dad was in a nurseing care hospital on his last. I was liveing in california and he was in wisconsin. My safe was filled and I could get no more guns in it. I went home and got all our family guns.
They wouldnt fit in my safe. A day or two after I got back to california my truck was stolen out of my driveway. I had left a custom revolver hidden in it. That must have tipped them I was heavy into guns. They must have watched me and another day or two later right after I left the house it was burglered! Eventualy I did get back two guns the police took off a couple of people that they couldnt get to roll over. It`s been 7 years and the truck never showed up. (No doubt in mexico). I let my home insurance lady talk me out of even fileing a claim!! She said my insurance would have paid the ceiling of whatever the figuere was ($1,500?), but they would either drop me alltogether, or raise the insurance so high I couldnt afford it, and at that, make me install a monitored security system! She made it sound like it would be by far in my better intrest to not file! I am ashamed to say I followed her advice! She was a friends wife, and we worked together. She made it sound like my insurance company would probley drop me and no other company would want me without chargeing a fortune!
Here is a list. I did get back the hi standard HDM and the J.C. Higgins shotgun. I had bought that shotgun as a boy. It came back sawed off with a doc holiday sling! I was also royaly screwed by the court system and sheriffs dept in lancaster california (Los angles county). In short, they had the people involved on lesser charges, and in my opinion, let them slip through there hands and they got off with next to nothing in court. I got up and protested in court and was given the bums rush and thrown out of court! Thats the short version! Here is a list.

[Markbo]

Not to sound like a complete smart aleck, but have you brought these questions up to your insurance agent? That's why they're there... to look out for YOU. If you don't trust your agent to discuss this stuff, find one you do trust.

[86er]

Sportsmans Insurance Agency will insure for replacement value if currently made or book value if discontinued based on your attestment of condition. 6or example $15K insured cost $145 year. Very reasonable.

[J Miller]

Not to sound like a complete smart aleck, but have you brought these questions up to your insurance agent? That's why they're there... to look out for YOU. If you don't trust your agent to discuss this stuff, find one you do trust.

Yes, I've asked him most of these and I'm waiting for him to get to me on it. But while waiting I thought I'd ask what a good way to get firearms values would be. As usual the thread has grossly deviated from it's original course.

Joe

[2571]

I have no personal knowledge but have been told by several folks that NRA insurance is worthess and that they rarely pay off and then only on about 5% of value.

I assume you get what you pay for.

Perhaps we can get some input from someone who has actualy submitted a NRA claim.

[SteveR]

Perhaps we can get some input from someone who has actualy submitted a NRA claim.

I am interested too in how the claims are handled by the NRA, I hope someone could chime in with firsthand knowledge, I really don't want to suffer a loss just to find out!! My agent is pretty good though, I doubt they would recommend bad coverage.

Steve

[2571]

It's perhaps telling that no one replies to our request for anecdotal information about NRA insurance claims. I guess I will continue to asssume their insurance coverage is valueless.