What gun really won the West ?

[ByronG]

Probably done before but interested to see what you think.

[Blaine]

Prolly a shotgun.

[rimrock]

the one the killed the badness that day on that farm.

rimrock

[adirondakjack]

West, East, North and South, and filled the most pots too. The ole scattergun has kept the peace, kept the fox from the hen house, and rabbit in the stew.

[olyinaz]

The .22 rimfire stands pretty tall as well I'd think.

Oly

[FWiedner]

The Colt SAA and the 1873 Springfield carbine.

[TedH]

I'd say the old SxS shotgun.

[madman4570]

Winchester 1873(Long Gun) and the Colt Peacemaker(side arm)

[gamekeeper]

Shotguns were comparatively cheap and plentiful, plus versatile.

[C. Cash]

I think Blaine nailed it, when you get right down to it. There's almost nothing that can't be done with a shotgun, which is what people knew going all the way back to before the Revolution. As the saying goes, a man with a shotgun, eats.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Shotguns without a doubt. They were cheap, user friendly and Belgians were sending guild guns here by the boat load.

[Sixgun]

The Sharps. As Mike Venturino says, "The Sharps made it safe for the owners of Winchesters"---------------------Sixgun

[C. Cash]

For a rifle, it has to be the Trapdoor Springfield, unless we're going back to when the West was Kentucky and Tennessee, in which case it has to be the Early/Late Lancaster area Pennsylvania rifle.

[Malamute]

I'd say primarily the Sharps, and a few other buffalo guns. "Winning the west" meant taming it. Killing off the buffalo made the Plains tribes less able to be independant, and easier to subdue. Once the main Plains tribes were somewhat subdied, more settlers and cattle could come in. Once both of those things happened, it wasn't very wild any more.

[Hobie]

Prolly a shotgun.

Shotguns/muskets and single-shots at that.

[AJMD429]

Shotguns were comparatively cheap and plentiful, plus versatile.

Yep!

[Bruce Scott]

I'd say primarily the Sharps, and a few other buffalo guns. "Winning the west" meant taming it. Killing off the buffalo made the Plains tribes less able to be independant, and easier to subdue. Once the main Plains tribes were somewhat subdied, more settlers and cattle could come in. Once both of those things happened, it wasn't very wild any more.

"These men (buffalo hunters) have done more in the last two years, and will do more in the next year, to settle the vexed Indian question, than the entire regular army has done in the last forty years. They are destroying the Indians' commissary. And it is a well known fact that an army losing its base of supplies is placed at a great disadvantage. Send them powder and lead, if you will; but for a lasting peace, let them kill, skin, and sell until the buffaloes are exterminated. Then your prairies can be covered with speckled cattle." General Sheridan, addressing the Texas Legislature in 1875.

[C. Cash]

I'd say primarily the Sharps, and a few other buffalo guns. "Winning the west" meant taming it. Killing off the buffalo made the Plains tribes less able to be independant, and easier to subdue. Once the main Plains tribes were somewhat subdied, more settlers and cattle could come in. Once both of those things happened, it wasn't very wild any more.

"These men (buffalo hunters) have done more in the last two years, and will do more in the next year, to settle the vexed Indian question, than the entire regular army has done in the last forty years. They are destroying the Indians' commissary. And it is a well known fact that an army losing its base of supplies is placed at a great disadvantage. Send them powder and lead, if you will; but for a lasting peace, let them kill, skin, and sell until the buffaloes are exterminated. Then your prairies can be covered with speckled cattle." General Sheridan, addressing the Texas Legislature in 1875.

Well you fellas have a good point with the Sharps, though a lot of those shaggy beasts were brought down by everything under the sun.

[Don McDowell]

Having family that was here , shotguns, and 22's pretty much ruled the guncollection.
Colt's and Winchesters 73's were to expensive for most folks to buy, and to single purpose. Cap and ball and conversions, S&W's , Iver Johnson's etc were more common IF there was a handgun even anywhere around.After the turn of the century the semi autos had a fair amount of popularity.
The Rolling Blocks and Trapdoors and later the hiwalls were more common than Sharps. Sharps rifles were big, heavy, expensive and the company was bankrupt and gone by 1880. In a county museum in eastern Montana they have a fair number of sharps rifles , and the one has a plaque about it's owner and how he traded it off for a Winchester 86 the day after the battle at Stoneville, because he wanted something that wasn't so heavy and easier to handle in a fight.
Trapdoors were issued by the Wyoming Territorial Legislature to the "militia" which was( and still is) any able bodied man over the age of 18, and that happened before the Custer debaucle on the Greasy Grass in 76.
Then came the Winchester 86's and the 94's made most all of the big bore guns obsolete, and then the Krag's came along , followed by the mausers and springfield bolt guns. ( keep in mind most of Wyoming didn't have electricity ,telephones, or paved roads until after WW2 and the last Indian battle was fought in 1904)

[Rusty]

I always felt it was the smoothbore in one form or another. Starting with muskets and then on to cartridge shotguns.

[stanforth]

I thought it was the Winchester 94.
The problem is that being a Brit I get my information from Hollywood films..

[firefuzz]

Shotguns were comparatively cheap and plentiful, plus versatile.

Plus the lady of the house could use one to good effect with little practice to run off both two and four legged varmits. In my mind a scared lady homesteader with a shotgun in her hands would certainly demand my respect, she'd probably use it before her husband would.

Rob

[RIHMFIRE]

Shotguns...without a doubt....
the winchesters colts smiths and sharps "opened up" the west....
but the shotgun is what protected most people in the west!

[madman4570]

I think of it as shotguns maintaining the West.(once it was won)
But the actual domination of occupation I would have thought it came from:

Oliver Winchester, the largest stockholder of the New Haven Arms Co. of Connecticut. He was assigned US patent No. 5501, which protected improvements to the Henry rifle. The new technology included a spring-closed loading port on the right-hand side of the frame, directly at the rear of the magazine tube, and resulted in the first reliable lever-action repeating rifle, produced as the first Winchester, Model 1866.
Famous for its rugged construction, the original Winchester rifle allowed the rifleman to fire a number of shots before having to reload: hence the term, "repeating rifle."

[Booger Bill]

I have to disagree that shotguns won the west. Yes I know probley every settler had one and largely ate with it and used them to keep critters out of the garden. No argument. "Winning the west" denotes to me that the indians had to first be pushed back or tamed by agreeing to live on reservations along with shooting off desperados untill law was established. It started with the mountain men. I havent read much about them carrying shotguns, but all accounts read about hawkin rifles and muskets, usualy 45 or 50 caliber. Then came the 49ers. Comeing across the plains they did carry everything from small derringers to dragoons, muskets, rifles and shotguns. In that era it seems there was more danger from fellow white men and mexicans like juaquein marrietta. Oddley if you read history a lot the indians DIDNT much molest the white 49ers comeing across the plains in those days. In 1857 right here where I live in utah the mormans had the largest wagon train massicure called "The mountain meadows massicure" on 09-11-1857. The first "9-11". Mostly rifles were used on that along with revolvers and knifes. The mormans incited local indians to attack and when they couldnt carry it off by themselves the morman militia joined in as they knew they were already observed and couldnt let people in the wagon train escape as they knew the U.S. army was already marching on them from the east to stamp out poligamy and get rid of or brigham young as govenor or the mormans president.
After that period was the civil war and the west was relatively queit for that era. Then comes now, "the indian wars". This I belive was the biggie in the west that we are talking about. At least to me this was the main era of "tameing the west". Now we all know the main weapons that was used was the springfield and the colt saa`s. Now came the buffalo hunters. This really was pushed by general sherman recommending the buffalo slaughter to starve out and tame the indians to seek reservations to eat when they no longer could feed themselves on the plains. We know that the sharps was the most popular buffalo rifle, followed by a few cheaper rifles like the remington rolling block and the whitneyville armory. (I used to own one of them). Comes now, what many of us romantised as being the wild west due to hollywood and comic books along with some real history it all was based on. The law was thin as their was no radios, vehicles or a army of backup fellow lawmen available. Thats when old winchester 66s, the new winchester 73s, colt saa`s, s&w 44s and remington new model armys ruled! The 92s showed up right at the end of the tameing of the west in my view. Yup, all the settlers ate with and used shotguns, but I think it was mostly rifles of whatever brand one could find that gets my vote and it envolved to where you could mention many and call yourself right.

[bdhold]

barbed wire...

[aragornelessar86]

Actually, the gun that beat the Native Americans was the Springfield Trapdoor.

The gun that protected and fed the settlers was the shotgun.

The guns that maintained the peace and perhaps "tamed" the west were the Colt 1873 SAA and the Henry/Winchester '66/'73.

[mikld]

Would your question refer to the settleing of the west or the bad guys vs the good guys gunfighter era? Although I think the line between good guys and bad guys was kinda blurry...

[rangerider7]

Six-shooter like the Colt Walker etc and the repeating rifle like the Henry/Winchester.

[Don McDowell]

This stuff about Indians and settlers is quite abit over blown, as is the badguy thing.
Conflict between Indians and settlers were few. Then as now most of the badguys were confined to the inner city, and then as now mostly involved druggies, thiefs and other such riff raff. Ruffians get out to the smaller towns etc, they generally went down in a hail of gun fire and were unceremoniously buried...People just didn't put up with the type of nonsense Hollyweird would have us believe.
Hollyweird has scewed what really happened emmensely.
Remember now that the Union Pacific was completed in 1869,That meant fairly good sized cities about every 100 miles,with fully garrisoned military posts, and towns every 10 miles along the tracks from Omaha to Sacremento. The big year of the Indian battles with the military was in 76, but there were active farms and ranches in Wyoming, Nebraska, the Dakotas and Montana prior to that episode. And some of those ranches in Montana and northern Wyoming are not all that far from the Little Bighorn. The city of Deadwood,Hill City,Keystone and other Black Hills settelments were worried about Indian attack and Wild Bill's killer was tried in Pierre a few months after the Little Bighorn ..... When the Souix kicked Fettermans butt in 1866 it was because they were po'ld about the traffic along the Bozeman trail to the Gold mines in Montana,Virginia City was a big deal then instead of the Ghost town it is today.... Guess what the Colt model P hadn't even been invented, and Winchesters leverguns hadn't a whole lot of distribution yet.
The buffalo trade was pretty well done in 76-77 altho there was some demand for the hides until 82,but even then a goodly share of the "hunters" were providing meat to the towns. or so the southern hunt was over by 75. Sharps closed their doors from 76-77 and was gone by 80.
Look up places like Modera ND and see what sort of "wild west" there was left by 1883.
Take a look at the production numbers and dates for Colt and Winchester, then decide whether it was winning the west or just advertising hype?

[Wolfy]

By the time the Sharps rifle company went under, the buffalo were already nearly a memory and the west had already lost most of it's "wild and wooly" flavor. Cattle were grazing where the buffalo and native populations had once roamed freely, the steamboats were shipping goods up the rivers and the railroads were soon to put them out of business.

The Sharps was the premier buffalo rifle according to Charles Hanson at the Museum of the Fur Trade. I asked him about the Remington rolling block and he said that the Sharps outnumbered them 10/1. Lucretia Borgia, Cody's buffalo rifle, was an old .50-70 Springfield. It's in the museum in Cody, WY.....pretty much looks like it was used for a jack handle.

I think the destruction of the great herds "won the west" because it destroyed the natives' larder and reduced them to having to depend on the government for a food supply.

[C. Cash]

In the few pictures I've seen of Buffalo hunters of that era, I usually see a variety of weapons: Henry's, Sharps, Remington...etc. Even read of guys using a Brown Bess to hunt them. I'd be interested in the actual number of Sharps out there during the heydey of the hide hunters. No doubt they played a big part, but I wonder if it isn't just in our heads that most of the Buff hunters had a Sharps and that they alone won the day, much like it is often thought that everyone had an 1873 Win. during the early west(also seems to be disproven by photos of Posse's and such, and accounts). Photos and accounts have tended to show a variety of weapons present among those hunters so again I wonder about the actual number of Sharps that were present. I think Don is correct on this in that there weren't as many as we'd think, comparatively speaking.

[Griff]

You guys can argue, ok, discuss it all you want, but... by what standard are you claimin' the "west" is won? I still see loads of trouble from states like CA, CO, NV & OR! But, seriously;

If by "won", you mean "settled"; guns didn't accomplish the feat! Words did, supported by ideals and brought to life by people! Guns may have shortened the process, but we "won" the west by sheer numbers. Those that wrote of the west's vast unecumbered spaces and those that wrote laws allowing for "free" land fired the imaginations of overcrowded easterners.

And really, the Sharps? By far outnumbered by Trapdoors & Rolling Blocks in the killing grounds!

[Lawyer Daggit]

My vote would be the shotgun. Every farm had one.

With the right load you could use it on practically anything.

[RDB]

The WEST was Kansas south through Indian Territory and Texas. We need to be talking the mid west......after that it was the railroads.

Military Springfield conversions, Sharps, Remingtons and cap and ball pistols. Basically Civil war weapons. Henry and the '66 after that. '73 (rifle or pistol) was a late comer.

[Bruce Scott]

Hollywood may have been on the right track back in 1955:

[Old Ironsights]

The gun that won the west was...

The gun in the hands of the civilian population. Something that has occurred nowhere else in history.

[mouthpiece]

Undoubtedly the 1911.

West wasn't really tamed until after WW1.

[tman]

Shotgun. I bet you spent ALOT more time trying to feed your family as opposed to defending it.

[Ysabel Kid]

Another nod to the scatter gun.

[KCSO]

If you mean what gun put the most settlers in the west you would have to consider the Sharps rifle at the top of the list. Until the buffalo were gone the settlers didn't come in. The SETTLERS carried and brough the shotguns. Yes the shotgun is versetile and a favorite of many, but it was the big bore Sharps and remington rifles that opened the territiries for settlement. Alas the pore levergun except in very limited numbers didn't make buffalo guns. The handgun WON mostly barroom brawls and isn't even a contender.

And IF you insist on a smoothbore WINNING??? the west the flint trade musket used from 1690 to 1930 would have to be the top gun. (NPI)

[Don McDowell]

If you mean what gun put the most settlers in the west you would have to consider the Sharps rifle at the top of the list. Until the buffalo were gone the settlers didn't come in. The SETTLERS carried and brough the shotguns. Yes the shotgun is versetile and a favorite of many, but it was the big bore Sharps and remington rifles that opened the territiries for settlement. Alas the pore levergun except in very limited numbers didn't make buffalo guns. The handgun WON mostly barroom brawls and isn't even a contender.

And IF you insist on a smoothbore WINNING??? the west the flint trade musket used from 1690 to 1930 would have to be the top gun. (NPI)

Put a time line to the buffalo hunt and it quick becomes apparent the 15000 or so 1874 sharps rifles manufactured didn't have that much of an impact.
Fetterman got wiped out in 68 at Ft. Kearney, which was built to protect the Bozeman trail, which was the main road to the Montana settlements. The buffalo hunt was going on yet in 82, and Miles City was a long established trading center.
The Union Pacific was completed in 69 and folks were settling along that route before it was even complete.
Biggest share of the "west" was settled 10 years before the Adobe walls fight.
Those buffalo hunters needed towns and cities to resupply and sell the hides. Those towns and settlements were in place well before the shoot started.

[Old Time Hunter]

Hollywood may have been on the right track back in 1955:

I'll agree with Bruce here...as far as a rifle goes and especially when you consider that once in the hands of the "public" they had no qualms of shooting buckshot out of it. Very versatile, my gramps had no problem shooting squirrels and rabbits with either his homemade shot shells made out of .45-70 cases or just stuff'n .410 store bought cartridges in it. I'll bet, most settlers from the mid '40's to after the Civil War, probably carried muzzle stuffers that they would shoot whatever was convenient out it, that being scatter gun stuff or minnie balls...maybe even rocks.

[765x53]

Before metallic cartridges, the percussion Sharps had little competition and gave a man a huge advantage over muzzle loaders. The later Sharps had no particular advantage over other single shots.
Smooth bores won the entire continent from military muskets to trade-guns to inexpensive Belgian shotguns, both muzzle loaders and cartridge, and later even cheaper Zulus made from millions of surplus European Sniders.

[GregT]

First, the Sharps is a "lever gun". The "lever" operated the gun. Now, if you mean "lever action, magazine tube fed", then we have a class of rifle that would fit the '66. the '73, the '76, etc.
In my opinion, the shotgun, either percussion or cartridge, is the "Gun that Won the West"!
GregT

[AJMD429]

Just think if they had somehow had 'modern' guns (and of course functioning ammo for them) that by today's standards are not particularly spectacular 'battle' implements...

Ruger 10/22's...? Marlin 1894's in .32-20...? Savage .308 bolt-actions...?

...or even just modern handguns...

Contender pistols in .223...? 1911 pistols...? Ruger Blackhawks in .44 Mag...?

...or ( ) semiautos...

Ruger Mini-14's...? Garands...? Barrett .50's...?

[Bogie35]

A side-by-side double-barreled shotgun.
And, although I love leverguns, side-by-side doubles are still the finest guns ever made...IMHO.

Bogie