Loctite BlackMax to hold front sight???

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:13 pm

My next project is to replace the crooked front sight on my Win 94AE Trapper .45. Tim Skinner made me a beautiful duplicate for the factory one and I've got to either solder it on, or glue it on.

In several threads people have mentioned Loctite Black Max. It's supposed to be a super duper glue for things like this. Has any body used it to put sights on, and if they have, how well has it held?

If the Black Max will work for a permanent installation I won't have to use heat and so I'll be able to save most of the bluing.

Joe

Pisgah · Post by **Pisgah** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:51 pm

I used Black Max to put a ramp front sight on a cut-down Mossberg 500 five years ago. It has held up beautifully. Ditto for the ramp I put on a Marlin 336 I was rehabbing three years ago. The original screw holes had been stripped out, and before I tried to re-tap to a larger screw my eyes fell on the Black Max and I thought, "Why not?" A tiny drop in each screwhole, a little bit on the bottom of the ramp, and I am certain it will take a torch to ever get it off.

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:18 pm

Black Max is a permanent adhesive. My wife works for a laser manufacturer and they use it for optic mounts.

firefuzz · Post by **firefuzz** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:46 am

I've used it on two different rifles for attaching ramps and neither has come loose yet. One's almost 5 years old now. Just clean the metal good before hand and remember you don't have much time for alignment or clean up of excesss. That stuff sets up pretty fast.

Rob

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:38 am

Two questions;

A: Is it really black?

B: For a front sight, say 1/2" square how much would you use?

I only ask this because I've not found any instruction for this stuff. Even tried the Loctite site and that site is almost impossible to navigate.

Joe

COSteve · Post by **COSteve** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:14 pm

LOCTITE® 426 PRISM Black Max Gel Instant Adhesive is part of their industrial adhesives and not a consumer product so you'll need to look a bit harder for it than just Home Depot.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:21 pm

Joe

will this front sight

be prone to getting

knocked off easier than

say a scope sight

Nath

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:29 pm

Nath wrote:Joe will this front sight be prone to getting knocked off easier than say a scope sight

Nath

Knocked off? I doubt it, this one's been there over 20 years now. The very first one was broken off though. The factory sights are cast from some form of steel.

Don't know about knocking off scopes never used one.

Joe

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:59 pm

Do any modern gun makers in this day and age of cheap manufacture use glue on front sights?

I don't know but it don't sit well with me!

Best wishes all the same Joe

Nath.

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:00 pm

Do any modern gun makers in this day and age of cheap manufacture use glue on front sights?

I don't know but it don't sit well with me!

Best wishes all the same Joe

Nath.

DOUBLE HIT SOME HOW, SORRY!

N.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:17 pm

Nath,

If you catch your double post before someone posts after you, you can delete it. Look for a little "X" at the bottom right side of the post.

As for glue on the sights I don't know. I was just thinking if the Black Max would do the job it would be cleaner and easier than soldering the sight on. And it wouldn't ruin the bluing.
I haven't made my mind up yet.

Joe

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:32 pm

COSteve wrote:LOCTITE® 426 PRISM Black Max Gel Instant Adhesive is part of their industrial adhesives and not a consumer product so you'll need to look a bit harder for it than just Home Depot.

Steve,
Thanks, that explains my not finding it on the web. I guess I'll check with Midway or Brownell's if I don't find it locally.

Joe

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:50 pm

Here you go Joe. The 380 is also Black Max.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/LOCTIT ... Pid=search

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:28 pm

Jdad,

Thanks for the link. I'll bookmark it. I wonder what the difference is between the 380 and the 426?

Joe

jhrosier · Post by **jhrosier** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:59 pm

Nath wrote:Do any modern gun makers in this day and age of cheap manufacture use glue on front sights?....

Charter Arms used to glue the front sight on some of their revolvers.
It worked well, mostly. I had two or three of their revolvers and never had a problem with the sights falling off, but I did hear of one that did.
I have worked with some adhesives that bond better than you could imagine so I don't dismiss the idea out of hand.

Jack

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:06 pm

J Miller wrote:Jdad,

Thanks for the link. I'll bookmark it. I wonder what the difference is between the 380 and the 426?

Joe

If I remember correctly the 380 is the original liquid compound and the 426 is a gel version. Both are anerobic, so as soon as the 2 parts come together you have about a minute of play time.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:10 pm

I've used Black Max to keep the loose ejector housing screw in place on my Colt SAA. The screw/Black Max eventually came loose and it appears that I did not clean the inside of the hole well enough. I cleaned it real well the second time, including an acetone scrub and, so far, it is holding.

As far as what color it is, it is clear at first. As it hardens, it turns black.

firefuzz · Post by **firefuzz** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:28 am

J Miller wrote:Jdad,

Thanks for the link. I'll bookmark it. I wonder what the difference is between the 380 and the 426?

Joe

You might also look at auto parts stores, that's where I got mine.

Rob

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:10 am

I've checked ACE hardware so far and didn't see it. But then I wasn't sure what I was looking for.
I'll be hitting more places in the next day or so.

Joe

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:47 pm

Joe,
We have been through this before.
Loctite is a formulated hydro-carbon that cures in the ABSENSE of air.
You must isure that the GAP you are trying to cure is appropiate for the application.
If you can get it " light tight " before gluing, it should work just fine.
When you find the black max, let me know, I need to do a rib on High Standard Flite King, 20 guage.
I would use it without hesitation, and you know my backround.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:05 pm

mescalero2 wrote:Joe,
We have been through this before.
Loctite is a formulated hydro-carbon that cures in the ABSENSE of air.
You must isure that the GAP you are trying to cure is appropiate for the application.
If you can get it " light tight " before gluing, it should work just fine.
When you find the black max, let me know, I need to do a rib on High Standard Flite King, 20 guage.
I would use it without hesitation, and you know my backround.

mescalero,
Here is a pic of the front sight Tim Skinner made for me. As you can see it is rounded to match the barrel.

Skinner front sight_94AETrapper.JPG

When placed on the barrel, it is close to a perfect match, if not perfect.
I suppose I could solder it, but if the Loctite will work, I'd rather not destroy the bluing.

So which would you suggest, the 380 or the 426?

Joe

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:14 pm

jhrosier wrote:
Nath wrote:Do any modern gun makers in this day and age of cheap manufacture use glue on front sights?....
Charter Arms used to glue the front sight on some of their revolvers.
It worked well, mostly. I had two or three of their revolvers and never had a problem with the sights falling off, but I did hear of one that did.
I have worked with some adhesives that bond better than you could imagine so I don't dismiss the idea out of hand.

Jack

You guy's are fantastic, you humble me with your experience. Thanks for the education

Nath.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:25 pm

The Black Max
Be sure you are properly position.

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:28 pm

If the fit is perfect, no gap, "rear view mirror adhesive" will probably work as well. The stuff is also anerobic, and RIGHT NOW sticky, but ya have to hold pressure on it for a little while. I'd say anything that will hold half-pound mirror on a WS is strong enough.

Then again, ya can always use the redneck welding kit (JB-Weld). I just used JB to install a sight blade in a slotted hand made base last night. It ain't goin nowhere.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:00 pm

adirondakjack wrote:If the fit is perfect, no gap, "rear view mirror adhesive" will probably work as well. The stuff is also anerobic, and RIGHT NOW sticky, but ya have to hold pressure on it for a little while. I'd say anything that will hold half-pound mirror on a WS is strong enough.

Then again, ya can always use the redneck welding kit (JB-Weld). I just used JB to install a sight blade in a slotted hand made base last night. It ain't goin nowhere.

Jack,

A thousand summers ago when I was around 22 or so I shortened a barrel on a .22 rifle. Then I tried to figure out how to put the front sight back on. Well, I ended up epoxying it on. It was still there and shooting straight when I sold it to my neighbor. Since then I haven't epoxied anything onto a gun barrel.

"IF" I can find any of that fancy LOCTite Black Max stuff I'll buy it and maybe I'll use it on this project. But I'm still leaning, or tilting like the Tower of Pizza, towards silver soldering it on.

Joe

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:07 pm

If you are going to do the silver solder thing,
well, do you know how to get to Carnige Hall?
Practice baby, practice.

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Wed Nov 03, 2010 9:52 am

J Miller wrote:
adirondakjack wrote:If the fit is perfect, no gap, "rear view mirror adhesive" will probably work as well. The stuff is also anerobic, and RIGHT NOW sticky, but ya have to hold pressure on it for a little while. I'd say anything that will hold half-pound mirror on a WS is strong enough.

Then again, ya can always use the redneck welding kit (JB-Weld). I just used JB to install a sight blade in a slotted hand made base last night. It ain't goin nowhere.
Jack,

A thousand summers ago when I was around 22 or so I shortened a barrel on a .22 rifle. Then I tried to figure out how to put the front sight back on. Well, I ended up epoxying it on. It was still there and shooting straight when I sold it to my neighbor. Since then I haven't epoxied anything onto a gun barrel.

"IF" I can find any of that fancy LOCTite Black Max stuff I'll buy it and maybe I'll use it on this project. But I'm still leaning, or tilting like the Tower of Pizza, towards silver soldering it on.

Joe

I was leaning toward silver soldering the blade on mine too. I have th stuff to do it. But I remembered silver soldering exhaust parts for RC airplanes, and I remember how silver liked to build up a big filet sometimes, then how it sometimes runs, and how that ends up looking like heck. I decided I didn't wanna learn to be a jeweler, I wanted to install a sight.

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:17 am

Joe,
Here is the scoop on loctite Black Max 380:
Elastomer modified instant adhesive
gap fill= .006
tensile shear strength= 3,750
temperature range-65 degrees F to 225 degrees F
cure speed, fixture; 90 seconds; full 24 hours
I think it will do what you want it to.
mescalero

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:35 am

mescalero2 wrote:Joe,
Here is the scoop on loctite Black Max 380:
Elastomer modified instant adhesive
gap fill= .006
tensile shear strength= 3,750
temperature range-65 degrees F to 225 degrees F
cure speed, fixture; 90 seconds; full 24 hours
I think it will do what you want it to.
mescalero

mescalero,
Thanks for the information. I've got to find some, hopefully locally, before I get started removing the original sight.

Joe

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:55 pm

My search for Loctite 380 or 426 Black Max locally has been unsuccessful.

I've found the 380 version at Brownells, Midway and Grainger.
No luck on the 426 version yet.

Anybody got any other sources?

Joe

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:59 pm

Joe,
What is unacceptable about the 380?

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:05 pm

mescalero2 wrote:Joe,
What is unacceptable about the 380?

Not a thing. I was just hoping to find some cos I like the gel a bit better.

Joe

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Thu Nov 04, 2010 5:52 pm

Joe, I got my Black Max at the local auto supply store. They had to order it, but it came within a few days.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:02 pm

Kirk,

Been to the top two auto parts stores in this area and ACE Hardware. They all stock Permatex products and none showed the least interest in ordering anything.

Besides, I can order it myself just as easy.

Joe

airedaleman · Post by **airedaleman** » Thu Nov 04, 2010 9:36 pm

J Miller wrote: Besides, I can order it myself just as easy.

Joe

Then do so and get on with it!

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Nov 04, 2010 10:56 pm

airedaleman wrote:
J Miller wrote: Besides, I can order it myself just as easy.

Joe
Then do so and get on with it!

airedaleman ..... K M A

You don't like my thread, don't post on it.

Joe

airedaleman · Post by **airedaleman** » Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:21 am

J Miller wrote:
airedaleman wrote:
J Miller wrote: Besides, I can order it myself just as easy.

Joe
Then do so and get on with it!
airedaleman ..... K M A

You don't like my thread, don't post on it.

Joe

I'm sorry. I was overcome with angst!

claybob86 · Post by **claybob86** » Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:08 pm

I was checking into this and stumbled across this thread on another forum:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=401584

regarding 380 vs. 620 retaining compound.

Any opinions here?

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Nov 12, 2010 8:17 pm

Hmmm, well that was interesting, but I don't really know any more about it so I'm not going to offer an opinion.

Joe

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:58 pm

If the thing gets heated above 320 temperature, you are going to have parent metal problems,
Joe, you know me; trust me : go with the 320!

claybob86 · Post by **claybob86** » Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:29 pm

Mescalero wrote:If the thing gets heated above 320 temperature, you are going to have parent metal problems,
Joe, you know me; trust me : go with the 320!

Did you mean the Black Max 380?

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:02 am

Joe is trying to put a front sight on a rifle,
barrel steel and high heat,do not co-exist harmoniously.

firefuzz · Post by **firefuzz** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:16 am

Mescalero wrote:If the thing gets heated above 320 temperature, you are going to have parent metal problems,
Joe, you know me; trust me : go with the 320!

Why is this a problem with the 380, you don't have to heat it to cure it. Also, I don't know of a silver solder that melts at less than 400* and they've been using much higher temps to solder on guns for years with no problems. Bluing salts are heated to over 300* on some alloys. I'd really like to know more about this heat issue.

Rob

Mescalero · Post by **Mescalero** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:23 am

Soldering is a heating process, the trouble with the un-initiated doing this is the belief that if a little bit is good, more is better.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:47 am

Right now I have silver solder that melts at 400º ± and some that melts at 1100º ± . I've used silver solder before so I can do that. What I was researching when I asked about the Loctite Black Max was if it was feasible to use it instead of the silver solder so I didn't ruin the bluing on the barrel.

Considering I haven't yet found any of the Black Max locally and I'm in no mood to order it and pay twice the price with shipping I may yet use the 400º silver solder. That was Dr. Skinners suggestion any way.

Joe