Single Six for all-around use?

[azmark]

I want to replace a Single Six that I had to sell a few years back. I have a few acres in southern AZ and have the usual critters that come around - rattlesnake, coyote, skunk... Here's where the question gets sticky. I've been talking with a former Marine friend who has a lifetime of hunting experience plus combat experience in Iraq. He assures me that the .22 magnum is very effective and could even be used against 2-legged predators or mountain lions (they do come around every so often). I want honest feedback. I've done some research and found out that the WRM actually has very good penetration in ballistic gelatin, and can penetrate clothing well. It looks like my Marine buddy could be right. What I'm getting from other forums is that the .22 Magnum is not much better than a stick (slight embellishment). I do have other, bigger guns but I want to hear from you here. I trust your opinions.

[Pete44ru]

Us internet commandos aside, the WMR is "ok" - but in AZ I would MUCH rather tote a small-frame .357, either a fixed sight New Vaquero or an Adj sight 50th Anniversary gun, which would of course also allow use of .38 Special ammo as mid-range loads.

I'm still intrigued, however, by the .32H&R Single-Six - a right handy piece, in the right hands.

.

[shooter]

IMO, the .22 WRM is a dandy little cartridge for certain purposes. It would be fine for snakes up to Coyotes, and might serve ok on two legged predators, although I would be very hesitant to use it as my primary self defense gun. The one thing mentioned that I would be very uneasy with is using it for mountain lions. I know people that have done so, but always with the use of dogs.

As an all around gun for 99% of what you will encounter, I think it isn't a bad choice. For the 1% chance you may encounter something a little nastier, It wouln't be my first choice, but you could do a lot worse.

P.S.

I 2nd Pete's idea of the .32 H&R or .327 Federal in a Single Six. Same size, almost same weight, and much more potent. You can get closer to .357 power without increasing the size of the gun.

[Blaine]

I love my Single Six, but it's not what goes in the woods with me. The 1911 is for two and four legged goblins.... A .22mag rifle would be a different proposition, and then the Single Six would be handy on the belt.

[azmark]

My primary handun is a 6" GP 100. We have a .38, a .22 Henry, a 12 ga., a 30-30, and a Mosin-Nagant. I think the Single Six would be much easier to carry and handle than the big, heavy GP. I think I have the other 1% handled. In a pinch, what kind of damage would the .22 Mag do to a human being? My theory is that I can afford to practice with it a lot.

[azmark]

I do want a 1911. Always have wanted one, but the .45s I've shot weren't confidence-inspiring. I could hit a guy close-up but I would have to practice a lot to do much better at any distance. At $20 a box, that limits practice. The CINCPAD has declared she doesn't want anyone in the household using handloads, so I'm out of that business. Her fears may not be rational, but I gotta keep Momma happy. Another option is a S&W 637 Chief's Special. 38s cost a little less and the gun would be very handy. Still, the cost of practice with a .22 is pocket change in comparison. I could justify one of Paco's tools, too.

[AmBraCol]

Paco wrote an article a while back about the 22 WRM in a handgun. He is a big fan of the round. An advantage of the SS is that you can shoot it a lot with the LR and carry it with the Mags. This develops familiarity and will let you place your shots well, and that is where it's at. Here's a URL to an article by Paco. It's about a bottom feeder, but the info on the cartridge itself crosses over to both platforms.

http://www.gunblast.com/Paco_22AutoMag.htm

Personally I'd tend to want something larger on my belt, but at the same time will admit that I've spent some time with just a 22 LR or WRM single six and was well served by it for general use. It WILL do the job if you do yours, and that implies spending time and $$$ shooting it 'til you can place the bullets where it counts. Of course, that statement applies to ANY firearm one carries for "social" or sporting purposes.

Since you're limited to factory loads, there's a lot to be said for the 22 WRM. Second on the "cheap" (relatively speaking) end would be a 38/357. If you can find a small frame Ruger you'd have a gun that weighs close to what the SS does - but carries a more potent round.

[Hobie]

Think 5.7x28 a currently faddish PDW round. That's the .22 WRM. Things is, as pointed out, I don't think it is appropriate for your area. I'd feel better with an EBR.

[azmark]

What's an EBR?

[Rimfire McNutjob]

What's an EBR?

Evil Black Rifle ... a.k.a. AR-15.

I like the .22 WMR and shoot from both a Smith 648 and an AMT Automag II. Those WMR's are downright loud from a handgun though.

[azmark]

I find it hard to holster a rifle

[azmark]

Maybe I should just give up on the revolver and go for a P95. For the difference in price, I can get 500 rounds of 9mm practice ammo.

[J Miller]

Have you priced .22 Mag ammo recently? It's cost is far to expensive for what I consider sufficient practice amounts.
It's horridly noisy, are you going to carry ear protection with your on your walks? You better. MOST of my hearing loss is from a Colt SA Peacemaker 22 Mag. I learned the hard way just how load a .22 Mag is from a revolver.

You already have a good all around revolver in the GP 100.

Perhaps you should take your pants back and tell her that you are going to to take up reloading so you can become proficient with your guns and she can just deal with it.
There is nothing wrong with properly assembled hand loads, and it doesn't take rocket science to assemble them.
Hand loading does not save much money, but it does allow you to shoot a lot more. And that contributes to proficiency.
I don't know you from Adam, but I do know from 25+ years of marriage that women can be stubborn and pig headed about things without any rationality involved. It's a control factor. Their way of controlling YOU. I'd strongly suggest you take control of your own life and your living situation as soon as you can.

Just My Humble Opinion

Joe

[azmark]

Joe, you're right. 22 mag is VERY noisy from a revolver. And, it's not cheap. I love my GP, but it's just too heavy and too long to be comfortable to carry while I'm doing chores outside. It will kill anything that comes onto my property, but again, it's a comfort issue. Also, I would have to wear hearing protection with just about anything. A .357 is really loud, too.

[Blaine]

Have you priced .22 Mag ammo recently? It's cost is far to expensive for what I consider sufficient practice amounts.
It's horridly noisy, are you going to carry ear protection with your on your walks? You better. MOST of my hearing loss is from a Colt SA Peacemaker 22 Mag. I learned the hard way just how load a .22 Mag is from a revolver.

You already have a good all around revolver in the GP 100.

Perhaps you should take your pants back and tell her that you are going to to take up reloading so you can become proficient with your guns and she can just deal with it.
There is nothing wrong with properly assembled hand loads, and it doesn't take rocket science to assemble them.
Hand loading does not save much money, but it does allow you to shoot a lot more. And that contributes to proficiency.
I don't know you from Adam, but I do know from 25+ years of marriage that women can be stubborn and pig headed about things without any rationality involved. It's a control factor. Their way of controlling YOU. I'd strongly suggest you take control of your own life and your living situation as soon as you can.

Just My Humble Opinion

Joe

Hey, Joe...better file the front sights off your guns.....won't hurt as much

[Idahoser]

If it was all you had, no harm in trying to use it for 'certain' purposes, but if you're designing your defense battery, don't design it to be faulty from the start. This cartridge is not 'proven' by any means to do what you are asking of it. .38 Spl or 9mm is the standard 'minimum', and there are good reasons that is so.

[Booger Bill]

Azmark, shooter said it all best. My 1st good handgun was a convertable single six back in 1960. I probley shot that gun more than all my handguns put together since. It was stolen and I have since replaced it with another like new but built in 1958 or 1959. I also own a short barreled single six in .32 mag and am showing both. The single sixs built after the 22 mag came out have the bigger .224 bores to accomidate both the LR and mag. Its said they arent quite as accurate as the early ones built for just LR.
While I cant say its the absolute best, the 32 mag is close to it for what you want!

[milton]

If you can find one I would get a .32 H&R mag Ruger single action with a 6.5 inch barrel as has been already covered.The gun is the same size as a .22 6.5 inch Single-Six but since the revolver is bored larger it is lighter.Mine will shoot 115 gr cast bullets over 1200 FPS and is very accurate.You can also shoot the shorter .32 S&W in the gun for a low powered round.

[AJMD429]

For something just a tad bigger than the .22 Mag Single Six, yet not quite the 'beef' of a .357, I'd consider a .32-20. Modern loads in a modern .32-20 are plenty potent, yet VERY inexpensive to reload with cast bullets. I've heard some say they can reload the .32-20 with cast for less than .22 Mag costs.

However, given the better brass (thicker case mouths) and easier reloading of a true straight-walled case, I'd ALSO consider a .327 Fed Mag - they're available in 7-shot & 8-shot versions from Ruger. It should cost the same or even less to reload, since the brass is sturdier. For the SA revolvers vs. the Single Six, you're talking the same lengths (so depending on your Single Six, you might actually shorten things a bit), and adding just a few ounces (if you went to the same or longer barrel vs. your Single Six).

I'd be picking one of these four for such use:


SA 8-shot Blackhawk 6-1/2":

SA 8-shot Blackhawk 5-1/2"

SA 8-shot Blackhawk 4-5/8"

DA 7-shot GP-101 4-1/5":

Any of them would be right nice and suffice for the needs you describe.

As far as the 'reloading' issue, it doesn't sound like you'd need the high-volumes of practice you were anticipating needing if you wanted to be good enough with the .22 Mag to count on it for bigger critters or 2-legs. You could also use 'light' loads in either .32 H&R or .32 S&W if you chanced upon those at better prices.

You could also buy 'commercial handloads' that aren't near as cheap as when you do the labor, but that might be more politically feasable on the home front.

Unless my wife could convince me that reloads are more dangerous than factory ammo (which isn't too likely to be over-pressure, but sure can have the same 'squib'-then-plugged-barrel issues, etc.), I'd be inclined not to go along with that particular rule. If she didn't mind me spending the extra money on factory loads, however, I'd gladly comply, and just save all that nice once-fired brass for when she changed her mind later...

[L_Kilkenny]

IMO, When considering a .22 mag handgun the first question you have to ask yourself is, "Powerwise, would a .22LR rifle do the job I want?". If you're answer is no than you need something more, if it's yes than a .22M handgun may be the ticket. Then other issues such as noise will come into play.

As I've said before I think the best .22M handgun is actually a .38spl. Ammo is close in cost and you have substantially more umph.

Now you mentioned getting a new Single-Six to replace one you sold. Step and get yourself a .32H&R Single-Six and you have both format and power covered. My .32M Single-Six would be my last handgun to go if I had to start a sell off. Downside? You can't swap out the cylinder for cheap plinkin.

LK

[RDB]

I'd want something bigger, starting at .429 cal. But you are screwed if you can't hand load. In that case I'd go 9mm/38.

Problem with a .22 is that it might work for some things but it generally won't work quickly and it won't work at all for others I might want a handgun for. If you have a choice for handguns balance the power with the weight of the hand gun. Jframe in 38 is a bitch to shoot well for example. While a SAA in 44 special or 45 Colt is easy. 44 mag in a Nframe not so much. SAA is a lot easier to carry imo than N frame. 1911? Easy to carry, very accurate and one of the easiest handguns guns to get very good with.

[Booger Bill]

I also have a 1st generation colt saa in 32-20. While I havent got that deep into compareing both against each other, they seem to be close. My 4 3/4" colt feels heavy and cluby against my .32 single six. They dont recoil, are flat shooting and have a loud "crack". My single six has far better adjustable sights than the old U notch fixed sighted colt. If you are going that route I would be looking for that rare old "buckeye" ruger they made years ago. It was a old blue blackhawk in convertable clyinders in .32 H&R mag and .32-20. They had I think, a 6 1/2" or 7 1/2" barrel. I would be prone to cutting the barrel back to 4 5/8", putting stags or ivory and getting a alphonso or el paso rig in two toned floral stamping. Hows that for dreaming?

[Idiot]

azmark, I've been beating around the Arizona deserts for around twenty years. I even spend time in the high country when I'm fortunate enough to get a tag. I began beating through the chollas with nothing more than a 38 Special, but now carry at least a 357 Magnum, and prefer a 45 Colt where the chance of encountering humans is small, and a 10MM Auto when the chance of meeting humans is high. If I'm walking through the high country or high prickly pears in fall or spring I carry the 10MM or 45 Colt loaded with solid FP ammo (bear like the prickly pear tunas too).

In desert places within 50 miles of the large metro areas, I've encountered individuals shooting fully automatic weapons - all of which I steer clear of. Down south I've managed to stay away from the endless traffic of illegals, but carry the 10MM with extra magazines just in case we should meet and can't be friends. That hasn't happened, and I don't hunt down south as much as I used to.

The desert is hot, inhospitable, and full of individuals who can be dangerous and usually travel in packs (sometimes the fully automatic weapon sessions sound like an all out firefight). These facts must always be kept at the forefront. If something should go wrong in an ugly encounter, the 22 Magnum will not be up to the task. The 22 Magnum simply lacks the caliber diameter, bullet weight, and penetration capabilities you might need in these types of situations.

As far as animals go, I'm more concerned about dogs than anything else. I've run into a number of them in the desert - especially big vicious dogs left behind or lost by the packs of hombres IDed above. Lions are also becoming more plentiful and encounters are becoming more frequent. If an encounter with one of these animals goes wrong, the 22 Magnum is not up to the task either. Dogs are hard to kill (I know, I've many of them), and lions are not always cooperative unless hit perfectly right with the small cartridge you desire. I've got a friend who hunts lions a lot. He also guides lion hunters. He used the 22 Magnum for years with fair success. I continued to urge him to use at least a 357 Magnum in case something went wrong, but he refused. The last campfire we shared, he told me a story of what happened the week previous on a lion hunt he guided - his voice trembled while he told the story. He now uses a 357 Magnum on lions.

If everything goes well and you are in control of every aspect of an encounter, the 22 Magnum is adequate. But if the above criteria is not met, and it sometime isn't, you will need something bigger. May I suggest a 4.5" Ruger Blackhawk chambered in 45 Colt for the Arizona brush when humans are not likely a threat. And a Ruger P90 in 45 Colt where humans might be a threat (Hornady makes a great FP solid for this chambering). And if you want to cover both ends with one gun, find a 4" Ruger Security-Six in 357 Magnum, stoked with 158 grain soft points, and back it up with two speed loaders. The above suggested guns are based on reliability, cost, and weight (the GP-100 is a good weapon but after an hour or two of lugging it around in high 90 degree heat [hunting season] it becomes an unwanted anchor).

I like Arizona, and love the desert. I shoot what ever's in season and never pass a chance at obtaining a good rattlesnake dinner. I can attest there's nothing like having a coati run through camp or watch a she gila monster guard its nest, or sneak into a bunch of javalina and get close enough to touch them. And I do my best to not allow the illegal invasion to run me out of my favorite stomping grounds. But to do this, I must be properly armed, and I suggest you do the same. Have fun.

[gak]

+1 .32 H&R Mag Single Six. Have had 'em since their (Ruger) introduction in 1984. Great little guns and cartridges. Real sweethearts actually. In any form (shelf or reload) definitely enough pop to let you know it's no .22 anything. Another plus is that it--unless Ruger beats some of us to it--provides the platform for a .327 conversion in the future as budget permits (requiring a new cylinder made and resultant gap adjustment, but not frame/window mods), and you can still shoot the H&Rs (and the other .32s except the .32-20 of course. No snake shot "yet" (after 26 years) for the H&R, but maybe the existence of the .327 will finally change that. Some folks roll their own, but I do wish CCI would step up as well.

The new large-frame BH 8 shot .327 someone else also pointed out is another route to consider.

These days, my packin' pistol in big cat country is a Montado .357 (until the just-intro'd .44 Special New Vaquero shorty comes in, which it just did = quandry now ). Otherwise, the .32 SS goes tromping with me everywhere, and a companion Smith Airweight snubbie H&R acts as non-wilderness carry/travel companion.

[azmark]

AMJD429: I brought up the issue with her that I will have to spend some money on factory ammo. She responded with "why would I have a problem with that?". If I had my 'druthers, I would have a .45 Colt. I do have my limits on what I actually want to spend, though. 45 ACP is a little pricey, but maybe in the big picture it's not too bad. I can get a Phillipine-made 1911 for about $400. I've looked at the P90 also along with the P345 which may be just as good, but easier to lug around.

[gak]

azmark, I've been beating around the Arizona deserts for around twenty years. I even spend time in the high country when I'm fortunate enough to get a tag. I began beating through the chollas with nothing more than a 38 Special, but now carry at least a 357 Magnum, and prefer a 45 Colt where the chance of encountering humans is small, and a 10MM Auto when the chance of meeting humans is high. If I'm walking through the high country or high prickly pears in fall or spring I carry the 10MM or 45 Colt loaded with solid FP ammo (bear like the prickly pear tunas too).

In desert places within 50 miles of the large metro areas, I've encountered individuals shooting fully automatic weapons - all of which I steer clear of. Down south I've managed to stay away from the endless traffic of illegals, but carry the 10MM with extra magazines just in case we should meet and can't be friends. That hasn't happened, and I don't hunt down south as much as I used to.

The desert is hot, inhospitable, and full of individuals who can be dangerous and usually travel in packs (sometimes the fully automatic weapon sessions sound like an all out firefight). These facts must always be kept at the forefront. If something should go wrong in an ugly encounter, the 22 Magnum will not be up to the task. The 22 Magnum simply lacks the caliber diameter, bullet weight, and penetration capabilities you might need in these types of situations.

As far as animals go, I'm more concerned about dogs than anything else. I've run into a number of them in the desert - especially big vicious dogs left behind or lost by the packs of hombres IDed above. Lions are also becoming more plentiful and encounters are becoming more frequent. If an encounter with one of these animals goes wrong, the 22 Magnum is not up to the task either. Dogs are hard to kill (I know, I've many of them), and lions are not always cooperative unless hit perfectly right with the small cartridge you desire. I've got a friend who hunts lions a lot. He also guides lion hunters. He used the 22 Magnum for years with fair success. I continued to urge him to use at least a 357 Magnum in case something went wrong, but he refused. The last campfire we shared, he told me a story of what happened the week previous on a lion hunt he guided - his voice trembled while he told the story. He now uses a 357 Magnum on lions.

If everything goes well and you are in control of every aspect of an encounter, the 22 Magnum is adequate. But if the above criteria is not met, and it sometime isn't, you will need something bigger. May I suggest a 4.5" Ruger Blackhawk chambered in 45 Colt for the Arizona brush when humans are not likely a threat. And a Ruger P90 in 45 Colt where humans might be a threat (Hornady makes a great FP solid for this chambering). And if you want to cover both ends with one gun, find a 4" Ruger Security-Six in 357 Magnum, stoked with 158 grain soft points, and back it up with two speed loaders. The above suggested guns are based on reliability, cost, and weight (the GP-100 is a good weapon but after an hour or two of lugging it around in high 90 degree heat [hunting season] it becomes an unwanted anchor).

I like Arizona, and love the desert. I shoot what ever's in season and never pass a chance at obtaining a good rattlesnake dinner. I can attest there's nothing like having a coati run through camp or watch a she gila monster guard its nest, or sneak into a bunch of javalina and get close enough to touch them. And I do my best to not allow the illegal invasion to run me out of my favorite stomping grounds. But to do this, I must be properly armed, and I suggest you do the same. Have fun.

Fellow Arizona desert-dweller +1 to everything you said except the "rattlesnake dinner" part ...though I'm more than happy to provide such dinner for a critter that might come across it later! My SD when out tromping but expecting more than 'yotes 'n such in such socially difficult environs as you describe are either a 3" Smith 65LS (Lady Smith) stoked with one CCI snake shot followed with said 158s and speedloader, or a .40 S&W. Yes, for most circumstances, more than a .22 Mag, though I'll be the first to admit "much better than nothing."

[Booger Bill]

Here is my old .32 win colt. It is a old poor refinished colt, however it shoots just great. I have faux ivory on it. The gun is very heavy compared to my other colts in .44 special and .45 colt. Just that alone would make me carry my .32 mag single six. Big differance! Guys, I think you are selling that .32 mag short! I own guns in almost every caliber, 45 colt, 45 acp, 44 mag, 44 specials (My favorite), 357s and 38s, and the mentioned .32 mag and .32 win. I wouldnt deer hunt with the .32 or get in a gunfight on purpose with it, however I belive it will do just about everything the .38 special will. You will also get less recoil but more noise out of it, and just maybe, better accuracy. The gun in a single six, would be as light if not lighter than most comparable length barrels in .38 or 357. I carried on my jobs for over 35 years and weight does matter! I dont think the .32 mag a bad choice at all for the man as long as he dont try hunting deer with it. For what he wants, I think it a very good choice!

[Idiot]

Yes, for most circumstances, more than a .22 Mag, though I'll be the first to admit "much better than nothing."

Yep, a 22 Magnum is much better than nothing. It is even better than a stick, especially "a sharp stick in the eye."

[AJMD429]

If I had my 'druthers, I would have a .45 Colt. I do have my limits on what I actually want to spend, though. 45 ACP is a little pricey, but maybe in the big picture it's not too bad. I can get a Phillipine-made 1911 for about $400. I've looked at the P90 also along with the P345 which may be just as good, but easier to lug around.

Good points. If I really feared 2-leg issues, I'd probably still go with a revolver in .22 or .32, but would have a double-stack .45 like a ParaOrdnance or RockIsland tucked away. (If a predatory 2-leg thinks you just have an old 'cowboy' gun, and/or you've been relieved of that gun, it could cause them to make an unwise strategic decision you could find advantageous.) Lots of heat and sweat and so on, though, so if I were in an area where it was only 4-legs to worry about, I'd just have the one gun.

I have an old AMT stainless 1911 (single stack) that I've dropped on gravel, in mud, and it's gotten rained on and sweated on, and had surface rust (on the matted stainless finish) buffed off dozens of times, but it still shoots reliably and accurately. Plus it's flat and not much to snag on anything. An extra magazine in a zip-lock baggie in your pocket doesn't take much room.

If I'm actually planning to 'plink' a bit while out and about, though, I'm FAR likelier to want to use a revolver, preferably a SA one. Maybe it's because the brass doesn't require tracking down, or just because I appreciate the aesthetics of the SA revolver more than ol' slab-sides 1911's.

AMJD429: I brought up the issue with her that I will have to spend some money on factory ammo. She responded with "why would I have a problem with that?".

She sounds like a KEEPER...

[azmark]

Ah, Geez. I oughta just get a 4 5/8 in. Blackhawk in .357 and be done with it. It should be easier to tote, especially with the right holster. I've never heard a bad word about them, and they're supposed to be pretty accurate. A SAA clone would be nice, but I think they're actually heavier that the BH and not likely as accurate.

[Idiot]

Ah, Geez. I oughta just get a 4 5/8 in. Blackhawk in .357 and be done with it. It should be easier to tote, especially with the right holster. I've never heard a bad word about them, and they're supposed to be pretty accurate. A SAA clone would be nice, but I think they're actually heavier that the BH and not likely as accurate.

The 4 5/8 inch NM Blackhawk in 357 Magnum is made on the same exact frame as the same gun in 45 Colt. The difference is the size of the holes. As a result of the 45 Colts bigger holes and subsequent removal of more steel is weight. The 45 Colt in the NM Blackhawk is significantly lighter than the same gun in 357 Magnum. The reason I recommended the NM Blackhawk is because it has an aluminum alloy grip frame, which is far lighter than the other Rugers with steel grip frames. I can attest to the fact that the 357 Magnum in either the NM Blackhawk, or one of it's steel framed brothers - NM Vaquero, Vaquero, Bisley Vaquero - is heavy. They come with small holes in the cylinder in barrel, which are left thick, strong, and heavy. But with that being said, I've roamed a lot of desert with a "4 5/8 in. Blackhawk in .357."

Ruger Security-Six and Service-Six and Police-Sixes in 357 Magnum are still available and usually for less or around 300 bones. They are light, durable, reliable, accurate, and incredibly underrated. In my humble opinion, they are one of the best double-action revolvers ever made, at any price.

Oh, and I should mention, I am tend to be paranoid and usually over think many things. Do what is best for you and have fun out there while its still out there.

[J Miller]

Mark,

Sorry for being so snappy earlier.

I guess I do not understand why hand loads are being banned in your place. Perhaps it's none of my business too.

I started to post again here but it got very long. So I've decided to start another thread.
That way I wont swing this one too much more off topic.

Joe

[SFRanger7GP]

There has been some great advice on this thread. Here are some things to think about. If you are not going to reload, I would stay away from any cartridge you can't find in most stores that sell ammo. Which leads to the next point, pick something you can afford to shoot and will shoot. Any reliable, accurate handgun of any caliber in the hands of a competent shooter will work for self defense for any critter. I see too many people packing "Les Wilson's Tactical Black Ops Hi-Capacity Night Fighter" recommended by "XYZ gunmag" that go fire 50 rounds of "black and blue talon stp super-shock" ammo annually thinking they are ready to solve all problems encountered. If I was going to stay small caliber and super affordable, I would look hard at a 22LR/22mag Ruger single six (I have one). You can practice a whole lot and get very good with it. However, as stated earlier, a Ruger Blackhawk Convertible in .357/.38/9mm has a lot more wollop and you can find .38's and 9mm for around the same price as 22 mag. Disclaimer: If my mental risk assessment told me I had a high risk of an encounter with problematic 2 legged varmits, I would carry a lever rifle, M-4 or a shotgun.

[azmark]

Joe,

Don't worry about it. If I was that concerned I would have snapped back. I can't remember if I posted about the incident that made her take this stance, but it's interesting no matter what.

She got a brand-new Rossi 851 (she liked the way it looked). Her first time shooting it, she declared that no handloads were to be shot in HER gun. She didn't want to void the warranty. She shot a cylinder of Rem. Golden Sabers, then let our 16 year-old have a turn. He loaded up with ammo I had loaded for practice; he thought it was factory ammo because the bullets were JSPs. He shot a cylinder and complained that he couldn't hit anything. He gave it back to Mom who loaded another cylinder of GSs. She took two shots, and the second gave her some powder in the face. She asked me to look at the gun. The cylinder was jammed and wouldn't open. I looked at the end of the barrel, and there was one of my JSPs poking out of the end. She took it to the gunsmith, who found that the last eight bullets were all still in there, the final one jammed between the forcing cone and the beginning of the barrel. She said right then that she didn't want anyone in the family to shoot reloads any more. The bullets were removed and the gun tested out fine. She sent it to Rossi to have them inspect it, and they found no problems.

NOTE: Don't knock Rossi just because the guns are cheap. This revolver should, by all rights, have been severely damaged yet it is unharmed. It's now her "lucky gun" because it saved her from serious injury.

[RDB]

If I only had $400...I wouldn't spend it on a inexpensive and not all that reliable, and not tha accurate 1911. And I shoot a 1911 almost every day at work.

I'd buy a Cimerron Model P 4 3/4" in 44 Special or 45 Colt. Dang nice gun for a clone.

[J Miller]

Mark,

OK, I get the picture. However, that was just a learning curve. No harm done ... thankfully.
I sure wouldn't get rid of the reloading equipment though.

Joe

[AJMD429]

One advantage of the .45 or even .44 (or .50!) vs. the smaller bores, is although they will cost more per shot (more lead in the bullets), they will allow serious energy to be delivered with low velocity, and subsonic velocity is less harsh on the ears on the occasion you can't grab some hearing protectors prior to shooting.

[azmark]

Still have the reloading equipment. I should check on prices for that Cimmaron, just for giggles.

[J Miller]

Mark,

Here's an idea.

Get yourself something in a caliber totally different from what your wife shoots. Then after she's seen how much you're spending on ammo, tell her you can load for yours, and there's zero chance any of the hand loads will get into hers.

Might work .... maybe.

Joe

[Dave]

After reading this thread I would say the 22 magnum is not the way to go. They are viciously loud and not cheap. A Ruger Blackhawk in 357 with a 4 5/8" barrel would be a good choice. So would a Smith Model 19 or 66. Carrying guns with barrels much longer than 4" can get tiresome. Another idea is the Glock 19. The ammo is cheap and the gun holds plenty. They have no class but they make a lot of sense. The blue steel BH's are lighter than their stainless counterparts since they have an alloy frame instead of all steel. I have seen newer ones that are all steel so you may have to check into what is available. Finding used BH's is usually pretty easy. Of course you can never find the exact one you want used.

[gak]

I'd look at either a 4-5/8" New Vaquero or better yet 3.75" Montado (also technically a NV model and says so on the frame)--in .357. The Montado already comes with the nice low and wide Super Blackhawk hammer (though a diffeent cross hatch). Other NVs can have the SBH hammer swapped in by a smith; it's a (relative) "drop in" swap. Although all steel, the NVs are slightly smaller/handier of frame size and have the sweet new(ish) cylinder indexing system which lines up the loading/ejecting port without over-rotating (I don't know if the newer large frame NM Blackhawks have this feature yet or not). I like the smoother lines of the "cowboy" style fixed sight guns for clean holstering (and un-), and for on-the-trail SD you're talking "minute-of-man" sighting needs mostly anyway.

Another route is a 50th Anniversary flattop, combining the smaller "New Vaquero" frame and newer indexing system with adjustable sights. These too are all steel, however. I like that in my SA's though it does "add" some weight vs the traditional NM Blackhawks. The 50th Flattop (and its recently ('09) intro'd Flattop companion the .44 Special FT...now joined by a .44 Sp New Vaquero btw) are the old original/Old Model or OM design without the NM's protective "ears" by the rear sights that concern some, not others.

Of DA's, the K-frame .357 ideas are good ones--shooting 158 gr SPs or HPs. The rare-ish 3" 65 and 66 models are the cat's meow, IMO, and worth the extra search--and often, jingle. My choice is the increasingly precious 65LS (Lady Smith) with its unique low-glare satin stainless finish combined with full shrouded ejector--again fixed sight for carry/SD. Equally desirable is the stainless 66 3", again not growing on trees.

My new-production choice would be a 3" 686 7 shot. The smaller K's are nicer carry pieces but I can't argue the goodness of the extra strength and capacity of the L frames.

[BigSky56]

Mark the 22 mag is more than capable of doing what you want I have used one for stock depredation for years it works on cats and canines. pick your spot when you shoot if you hit it it wont matter if it is with a 22 or a 50 if you miss same story. A 22 to the head is just as effective as a 454. If you are ambushed by a bunch of bad guys it wont matter if your carrying a M16 you got problems. You would be surprised what a 22 mag is capable off. I'd get a 22 revolver and enjoy life. danny

[Lastmohecken]

I don't know, I got all kinds of handguns, and if I though there was a real good chance of becomming part of the food chain, other then the top of the chain, then I want a revolver with a caliber starting somewhere above .400 in a 4 inch or longer barrel. I have a Ruger 4 5/8 inch 44mag I like, as well as a couple of 4 inch model 29 smiths, not to mention several semi-autos in .45acp and 40 cal.

But even a .22 rim fire, can be quite deadly if shot well, but it's definately a thinking mans caliber in a revolver. You better be cool and make your shots count. If I was to get a ruger single six in .22mag, specifically to shoot .22mag, then I think I would also get the longer barrel, 6.5 inch, although mine is a 5.5 inch, but I then I usually stay with .22 long rifle in it, most of the time.

Another .22 I Like is my .22 top end, mounted on a Colt 1911, it gives you 10 shots, and it very easy to shoot fast, but that's expensive, and they can be finikey if not well tuned, however when done well, they are fantastic.

However, bottom line is, in a Ruger single six, the .22mag will make a good account for itself, if shot well, if not shot well, even a bigger gun, can surprise you with failures to get the job done, as quick as you might like. One thing I don't much care for is the smaller calibers in the blackhawk frame, or even a Colt Peacemaker, because they make up into a heavy gun, and I don't like heavy packing guns, so if I am going to carry a big gun, I want big holes in the barrel and cylinder, to reduce weight if nothing else, of course ammo is heavier, but you might not need as much of it.

[azmark]

Danny,

This is what I have heard from both my former Marine friend and my boss, who has a lifetime of hunting experience behind him. They've both told me that the .22 mag is a surprisingly effective cartridge. In my area the number one danger is rattlesnakes. They're always around. In four years we've seen one black bear which ran away when spotted. We've seen two mountain lions, same story. They disappear as soon as they know you're there. I've only seen one bobcat. Coyotes are common, but very shy. I'm very near one of the worst crossing areas for illegals but I've only seen one that was not already in custody. Border Patrol has a big presence in Palominas, so those folks are highly motivated to get out of there as quickly as possible and find a safe hiding place. Other than rattlers, I see more jackelopes than anything else. They grow huge where I live, bigger than some people's dogs. I've never heard of one with fangs, though, so I'm pretty sure we're safe The most destructive animals we have are skunks, which do nasty things to our chickens.

There you go. Now you have our wildlife profile.

[madman4570]

Since you state "all around use" Nope!(not enough gun)
Myself,it would be a Ruger GP100 SS 3" (.357 Mag)

With all the stuff going around your state,it would be on my person all the time and would be loaded with
http://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l= ... tail&p=103

[Coldfingers]

azmark...

quite the dilema ya gots goin on there.

Many years ago I dragged an ol single six and a Win9422Mag up here to AK with me. They served me well as trapline rifles and for putting birds in the pot. Foxes, coyotes, and lynx fell redilly to the little magnum.

Life was pretty good although the Magnum ammo was spendy even back then.

One cold and snowy day, as I trudged a deep trail into a friends cabin, I had the nightmare encounter with a very grumpy moose. I was fortunate to have the Winchester loaded to the max as it took every one of those little magnums to put that stinker down I doubt I could have pulled it off if I had been armed with the single six, simply due to accuracy issues (for me) and the limited rounds vs the capacity the rifle afforded me that day.

That little rifle is now being used by my son on coyotes in Montana and I have stepped up a few notches and use a .357 combo (Marlin and rugers) for such purposes.

I will say though that some of those .327's are downright appealing (but I will probably continue to make do with .38's for pot sized critters and pests of all sorts and sizes)

Good luck,

Scotty

[Hungarian]

I definately think the single six shooting 22 mag or 17 hmr is great for all around pest and varmint control. Bigger caliber is only needed for protection and varmints usually do not attack man unless it is a wild dog. And the gunshot sound and sting of the .22 mag will stop that dogs attack.

[Lefty Dude]

If weight is a factor for carry consider this, I put three of my packin arms on the digital scale.

My Ruger SS with the mag cylinder, unloaded weighs 2.1 #

My Cimarron 5 1/2" SAA, unloaded weighs 2.5 #

My Charter 44 Pug, "loaded" with 5 rounds of 44 Special 200 gr. HP, weighs 1.75 #

And for comparison my Browning HP 40 with empty magazine, weighs 2.3 #

I can carry the Charter 44 all day and hardly know it is on my side or pocket.

[J Miller]

Just a comment about carrying handguns.

I drove armored trucks for a number of years in AZ. Average temperature in the summer 100+. Average temp in the armored truck 120+ with the AC running.

I wore a Sam Brown belt ( remember them ) with two speed loaders and either a Colt Python, or an N frame S&W for most of that time.
I never noticed the weight of the guns. It was something I just got used to.
Matter of fact once I got home and took the rig off I walked funny for a while cos my body had compensated for the weight.

Gun weights, loaded:
S&W 25-5 .45 Colt 4": 49oz
Uberti Ctlman .45 Colt 4.75": 41.5oz
OM Ruger BH .45 Colt 7.5": 45oz
S&W 28 .357 Mag 4": 49oz
OM Ruger BH .357 Mag 4-5/8": 41.5oz
OM Ruger SS-S .22 Conv 6.5": 36.5oz
H&R Sportsman .22LR 6": 30.5oz
Davis Derringer .32ACP 2-3/8": 10oz

No wonder I walk crooked .

Joe

[Hobie]

I am embarrassed to say so but I have a loaded Single-Six .22 Mag with me now. I finally remembered to get it out of the truck. I guess that answers the question for ME.