73 winchester strength

[RustyJr]

Does anyone know how hot you can load a 357 magum in a 73 action? I know its not near as srong as a 92 but was just wondering what the max safe loading is for the 73.

Thanks,
RustyJr

[nwtradegun]

would not do it only 38 spec. loads. if not converted it is a sacralige.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
+1 on the 38 special power in a 357 case.
The design just will not hold up to Magnum loads. If you sare not familiar with the toggle system remove the sideplate and take a look. Those two curved bearing surfaces are going to recieve the jolt of each fired round. It does not take long for setback to start with overstressing them.
If you NEED a 357 Mag lever gun GET a modern design`+ material rifle. Me I would keep velocity to about 950 fps with a 158 grainer and never have to worry. That more than duplicates the power of the old BP 38-40 and train car loads of deer were shot with that round.

[Hobie]

[sarcasm]You guys are just a bunch of namby-pambies. The .357 has been chambered in the repro '73s forever. Nobody has died. In fact, the guns hold up so well that Uberti is now chambering the action, otherwise unmodified, for the .44 Remington Magnum.[/sarcasm]

The truth is that the guns will handle SAAMI standard loads from your dealer. If you don't trust the strength of the toggle-link action don't buy one.

[Wind]

Here's a report by Oliver Winchester on the strength of an '86, a toggle linked '73's big brother...

The strength of the Model 1876 rifle and the .45-75 W.C.F. cartridge was tested by Winchester in the late 1870s. The factory conducted tests on the strength and reliability of the action to answer concerns by customers. These tests will astound collectors and shooters who have stated the Model 1876's toggle link action is "weak." In response to a letter sent to the company by Charles Hallock, Esquire, of Forest & Stream magazine, Oliver Winchester responded by telling about the tests the factory accomplished on the 1876 rifle. He indicated that engineers first started the tests by removing one of the toggle links and fired 20 rounds (this was with .45-75 W.C.F. cartridge with 350 grain bullet) with no effect. They restored the missing link then went through 6 more trials starting with a charge of 105 grains of black powder, behind a 700 grain bullet! The comment "worked well" is noted. They then increased the charge of powder to 165 grains behind 3 bullets (1,150 grains) and that "worked well." From there, they increased the powder charge to 203 grains and added more bullets until they reached 1,750 grains of lead (five 350 grain bullets). This also "worked well." Finally, they added one more bullet, bringing the total weight to 2,100 grains, and things began to happen. The comment was, "Breech pin slightly bent. Arm working stiff." The seventh and final test was again 203 grains of powder but this time six Martini bullets weighing 480 grains each (2,880 grains) were used. "The charge bent the breech pin, blew out the side plates, split the frame and otherwise disabled the arm," was the comment. Oliver Winchester noted that in this seventh trial, the shell had burst into fragments and the escape of gas at the breech did the damage.

Hope this helps. Best regards. Wind

[bdhold]

The weak points are the toggle links and the long, spindly bolt. The link pins are beefed up a little bit in the modern replicas.
the number I read over and over is limiting CUP pressure to 20,000 to 23,000 psi.
The manufacturers state that the rifles are safe for all commercial loads (not +P) and, of course, not to fire reloads.
The approach I have been taking is using slower rifle powders, aiming to keep the pressure below 20,000 (based on tables as available for the bullet and powder, and a bit of SWAG), using slower burning rifle powder to get the velocity up.
Started out shooting 10 grains of 4227 with 130-gr hard lead, plan to slowly work up. (best estimate here is 15,000 psi)

read KirkD's post on this thread - it's enlightening (as are the other posts on the thread) about pressure and powder - http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... 10&start=0

[Lefty Dude]

With no locking lugs on the bolt, and the links taking the full thrust if the bolt must exit....The next stop is your Head.

[Terry Murbach]

UBERTI HAS BEEN MAKING '73 REPLICAS FOR MANY A MOON NOW CHAMBERED IN 357MAG. EVERY LAST ONE OF 'EM MUST PASS CIP PROOF, AND THAT IS A HIGHER STANDARD THAN SAAMI PROOF. MY UBERTI 357MAG RIFLE HANDLES TOP END FACTORY LOADS LIKE POPCORN AS FAST AS I CAN STUFF 'EM IN THE MAGAZINE.
ON THE OTHER HAND, ALL THE CORBON TYPE LOADS WENT THROUGH THE ROSSI 92 357 OR THE BR' '92 357MAG AS I AM JUST A WEE BIT WUSSEE ON MY GOD'MOMMA'S SIDE OF THE FAMILY.
AS FOR A 44MAG UBERTI '73....I WILL HAVE TO REGISTER WITH THE BOYS FROM MISSOURI.

[Hobie]

UBERTI HAS BEEN MAKING '73 REPLICAS FOR MANY A MOON NOW CHAMBERED IN 357MAG. EVERY LAST ONE OF 'EM MUST PASS CIP PROOF, AND THAT IS A HIGHER STANDARD THAN SAAMI PROOF. MY UBERTI 357MAG RIFLE HANDLES TOP END FACTORY LOADS LIKE POPCORN AS FAST AS I CAN STUFF 'EM IN THE MAGAZINE.
ON THE OTHER HAND, ALL THE CORBON TYPE LOADS WENT THROUGH THE ROSSI 92 357 OR THE BR' '92 357MAG AS I AM JUST A WEE BIT WUSSEE ON MY GOD'MOMMA'S SIDE OF THE FAMILY.
AS FOR A 44MAG UBERTI '73....I WILL HAVE TO REGISTER WITH THE BOYS FROM MISSOURI.

Terry,

I looked at one of those Uberti .44 Mag 1873s at the NRA exhibit. Now you know they wouldn't let me pop off the side plates and look inside, but a very cursory examination showed NO difference from a standard gun except for the rubber butt pad...

[adirondakjack]

I asked a major distributor about the .44 '73, and was told that what you saw is not what you will (eventually) get. In a trip to visit Uberti he has examined the ONLY RIFLE in .44 that actually exists (aside from show mock-ups). The innards HAVE been beefed up and so far the innards have been proof tested in some chambering other than .44 mag. the .44 Mag rifle has not been to the proof house yet.

There is often a disconnect between marketing and engineering, Just saying.

His take on it simple. If the gun proves to be safe and reliable they will carry it. if not, they will pass.

[Griff]

The '73 action as chambered in modern replicas is of STEEL, not IRON as were the originals. Many a shooter has fired factory .357 Magnums outta their replica. I've not heard of a single incident where the result was anything other than a bullet down the chute.

With THAT said, I wouldn't HOT ROD .357s thru the '73 action as I might with a '92. If you're wanting to hot rod .357s in a lever gun... skip the '73 and get a '92 replica.

EDIT: I might add that the basic '73 action will handle any loads deemed safe in the Colt SAA, which has been chambered in .357Mag since the 2nd gen guns were re-introduced in 1956. Much ado over nada!

[Malamute]

With no locking lugs on the bolt, and the links taking the full thrust if the bolt must exit....The next stop is your Head.

Well, not exactly. The firing pin protrudes out the rear of the receiver, but the bolt proper won't fit through the firing pin hole.

[Booger Bill]

Griff, not to nit pick, but colt had some .357s in the saa even earlier, prior to world war two.

[Griff]

Griff, not to nit pick, but colt had some .357s in the saa even earlier, prior to world war two.

Wasn't real sure, but KNEW the 2nd gens were. Thanks Bill.

[Grizzly Adams]

I asked a major distributor about the .44 '73, and was told that what you saw is not what you will (eventually) get. In a trip to visit Uberti he has examined the ONLY RIFLE in .44 that actually exists (aside from show mock-ups). The innards HAVE been beefed up and so far the innards have been proof tested in some chambering other than .44 mag. the .44 Mag rifle has not been to the proof house yet.

There is often a disconnect between marketing and engineering, Just saying.

His take on it simple. If the gun proves to be safe and reliable they will carry it. if not, they will pass.

Well, the same question has been asked of Uberti, and the answer was that the frame has been "hardened" - no changes in the innards. This is why the only finish offered for the 44 mag will be bright blue. I guess well see......