Picked up a Win 94 - need info PICS ADDED

[86er]

Late last night I had a unique opportunity to buy a Win 94 from the original owner. The serial # is 1703XXX. It is a 30-30 with 20" barrel and full length mag tub. The condition is probably 75%-85%. There are no dings or gouges on the wood at all but it shows age. The action has light surface rust on the edges and the barrel has some on near the end. The rear sight ladder is missing. Metal buttplate with "checkering". Otherwise, it is in fine shape, all the screws are perfect. The owner told me he purchased it new in December 1949. He has a hand written receipt that is not dated but reads "Missouri City Hardware Com." (printed) and "Winch. 94 30 1703XXX" , "20 cartridges" and "Richard Lxxxxx" handwritten. Furthermore, he says he fired 20 rounds to try out the gun around the time it was new; 10 rounds fired by his grandson in the late 70's; and 10 rounds fired by grandson's friend in early 90's. The friend supposedly took it hunting two seasons but did not clean it. It spent it's life in a wooden rack in his house exposed for all to see, and to the indoor elements. He pulled it from the same rack it had been in since 1952 when he moved to the house in Wolfe City from Missouri City. He said he always remembered paying $36.30 for the rifle.

When I look up the serial # all the references say made in 1950. This contradicts that it was purchased in Dec. '49. I have no reference for the pricing, so I have no idea if $36.30 would be accurate. The Gentleman has a pretty extensive fishing journal that includes some hunting info. He has "1953 Jan shot 3 rabits with the Winchester near Jone's on Sabine" (his spelling and abbreviations) as one entry. Another says "November 22 1977 Richard III shot his first deer with the Winchester a 7 point at EB's." I spoke to the grandson, Richard III and he recounted the story of his first deer with that rifle and how he loaned it to his best friend for two seasons. Richard III is a fisherman and his friend purchased a new bolt action scoped rifle because he "needed it to shoot deer".

The gun seems legitimate based on configuration and serial # and some supporting documentation. Does anyone know how to verify the purchase price in 1949? Can anyone explain or verify the alleged Dec. 1949 purchase date with the 1703XXX serial #?

Can anyone give me the $.02 version of the differences between this model and those made in '60's - '90's with the same configuration?

It's a fine old rifle but I purchased it based on the reported history of it. Frankly, if the story is proven bogus I would sell it to someone who wanted a nice vintage rifle and didn't care about the story.

Thanks in advance for your time and information.

[C. Cash]

The story sounds legit and it sounds like you got yourself a dandy rifle Joe. The time frames are too close together to be intentionally made up. Dec. 49 tells me that the Winchester serial number info mightly be slightly off by a few guns, or that 60 years had your fella slightly off. Either way, sounds like the truth was told, and as long as the rifling isn't worn I wouldn't worry at all. My Grandfather Cash's family lived near Wolfe City back in the late 1800's/early 1900's, before heading further West.

PS: Please post a pic if you get the chance.

[Booger Bill]

Your nit picking and skeptical over nothing. Sounds right to me. Think I paid $56 for mine in the mid-late 50s. Why would some old boy lie over something like that? We arent talking about $100,000s! So some record book claims its made a month later? Why are we so quick to belive what some unknown author wrote over what a old boy that was there says?

[gak]

This is the best site I've found. http://www.armscollectors.com - prompts eventually takes you to this page.http://oldguns.net/sn_php/windateslookup.php

This verifies 1950, but to me it's not inconceivable it could've made it into a late 49 batch. Why anyone would mislead--in this case--I don't know as it makes it no more valuable, or at least not appreciably so. The 1950 models were the last of the "long wood" forearm configuration (in terms of 100% production; there are a number of '51s out there which used remnant '50 wood). That gives it a certain pre-war or war-era appeal right there--to me and others. As with all Pre 64s, the '49 or '50 (etc) had generally nicer walnut furniture, the receivers were forged, parts at least semi hand fit and finished, and bits like the cartridge carrier/lifter milled vs stamped. (Win improved upon the stamped condition to cast in the mid 70s).


While other improvements took place in the 70s to clean up the misguided cost-cutting of the early post-64s, with the sale to US Repeating Arms (USRAC) in the early 80s, the receiver was returned to forged. The angle eject cut-out feature was introduced to accommodate traditional scope mounting, and in the '90s a cross-bolt safety was added, later changed to a tang location where it stayed 'til end of production a few years ago. Others can fill in on more details such as later rebounding hammers, etc., but sounds like you've got a good'un.

[J Miller]

Joe,

My 1950 Win 94 is serial numbered 1,723,xxx and is marked "50" on the bottom of the barrel. Pretty much confirms the serial number age.
Since December 49 is so close to Jan 50 I wouldn't give the the 1950 date a second thought.

Here is my link to my pictorial on how to tell the difference between Pre and Post 64 Win 94s:
http://onesticky.levergunscommunity.org ... sters.html

The main differences between the 83 to 2005 AE models and the Post-64 models is few.
A: Return to forged and machined steel receiver to replace the cast receiver of the Post-64s
B: Rebounding hammer action replaces the half cock action.
C: Right upper side of receiver cut out to allow for angled ejection. Breach bolt extractor and ejector modified for this also.
D: Drilled and tapped on top of receiver for scope mounting.
E: Introduction of added cross bolt safety and later the tang safety.

Basically that's it. "Most" AE parts will interchange with the Post-64 models.

Hope this helps some.

Joe

[gamekeeper]

I can't help much but my 1940 Shooters Bible has them at $30.27.

The story sounds legit, 60 year old memories can be a little bit out now and then.

[Griff]

Madis' dates have been known to be "off." Not by much or very many. But, heck, Winchesters production methods were sorta "willy-nilly", why should we expect their other records to be exact? Story sounds right. I'd accept it for what it is, recollections by an old guy. I have several old '94s with very similar stories.

That Winie should have the flat, checkered steel buttplate, no saddle ring, rounded (not flat) front barrel band, no receiver sight screws, link willl be held in with a cross pin and retaining screw, carrier will be machined steel (not cast OR stamped), hammer should be "stirrup" type with split "hooked" mainspring, will have two screws under the lever on the lower tang, rear one attaches mainspring, front one for tension.

As Joe said, look @ bottom of barrel under forend for a date stamp. If the barrel is marked '49, good, if '50, well, the old guy was off by a year as to when he first bought it.

[Malamute]

Madis' information was off by about 4 years in the case of one Winchester I had. Not sure what difference one year would make, or that it would break the deal, but you have your own reasons, and must make your own decisions. Sounds like a nice gun with an interesting history tho. It would be a desirable gun without the story.

Exact price could vary with different sources, just as it does today. A "book value" at that date may not be quite exact for all sources, or factor in a "sale" period.

[86er]

Thanks for the info. I never thought the Ol' Man was intentionally fibbing, but I did distinctly notice he was 80 and he was 80 proof too. The # on the barrel checks out to 49. The pics are before I squirted some rust remover and wiped it. There are still specks of rust but not as pronounced. Sounds like the story behind the rifle is on the money!

[J Miller]

Other than the wear and rust that looks exactly like my 1950, right down to the barrel markings.

Aughta be a good shooter.

Joe

[crs]

Congrats on a great find. I want to see it after you clean it up a bit.

[KirkD]

Madis is off on some of his Winchester models, and the Model 1894/94 is one of them. I'm researching the Winchester Model 53 and he is ridiculously off. Bert at the WACA forum is researching model 94's and would be able to give you a more accurate date than any other published source right now.

[C. Cash]

Thanks for posting those Joe....very nice find. I need to get me one of those pre-64's someday.

[Sarge]

That'll make you a real decent shooter.

[FWiedner]

What a great find.

A little TLC and it'll be an exellent little utility gun.

Nice, peaceful step up for your boy when he's ready too.

Well done.

[Lawyer Daggit]

Great find alright. Sad, but one can never find an old winchester 94 totally rust free. Mine have always had blemishes on the blueing where I have had to remove the result of lack of gun hygiene by previous owners.

It is a nice find. Mine is a 63 model and the wood is not as nice as yours.

[Rusty]

Joe, you got a nice pre '64 from the original owner. How bad could that be?

So it's got some character marks. Don't we all? I was born a few years after that and I got some marks on me too.

Congratulations!

[Nath]

Glad for ya here Joe, how is the bore please.

Nath.

[rangerider7]

Get you a stainless steel pad and some solvent, it will look a lot better for you.

[airedaleman]

0000 steel (or, if you prefer, bronze) [edit - wool, of course. Omission caused by ancient brain syndrome] and Hoppe's. Light, light rub will remove the freckles...

[Griff]

If it does turn out to be a 1950... and youy doan want 'er anymore, I would. I've hankered after one born the same year as me. I've got some trading mat'l, and depending on what you like... some cash could hafta change hands!

[86er]

The rust came off and she cleaned up nice. The bore is mint and quite possibly the owner wasn't kidding about the rifle having 50 rounds fired through it. It shoots and functions good. GRIFF - you're welcome to check it out and see what you think!