best non-optical sighting solution

[deadwooddan]

What does everyone use besides a scope to improve accuracy for paper punching and hunting purposes?

I have always wanted to try the XS SightSystem

http://www.gunblast.com/Ashley_Ghost_Ring.htm

BUT had read a thread on the Williams 5D aperture sight, that served double duty when aperture was removed they used it like a ghost site. then also looked at Marble's Bullseye rear sight for $15 almost sounds cheap?? Have never used a tang mounted sight but don't think i care for the looks of them. Looking for an all purpose double duty fix??

Looking for something that i can work up loads with and do a little precision shooting with my Win. 94 and hunt with.


EDIT on the Marbles sight

[greyowl]

The Williams sights are good one's in my opinion. I use it both with and witout the apendig, like a ghost ring for hunting on my Marlin 1894. Skinner sights are good ones too. Quite a few variations to pick from.

[Pete44ru]

[ also looked at Marble's tang sight for $15 almost sounds cheap?? ]

$115 would be more like a discount price today for a Marble's tang, since they usually sell for $125 or so.

Any peep sight, receiver or tang, can be used as a "ghost ring" sight when it's aperture is unscrewed/removed - even the XS, which is available with stems threaded for apertures.

I do best with a receiver peep, used in conjunction with a fiber-optic front sight, like the Williams FireSight, or a Hi-Viz or Tru-Glo.

The FO beads are available in different colors for different vision and/or shooting situations, as well as coarse or fine beads, for hunting or target work.

.

[Hobie]

The steel Lymans or Redfields are great. I use mostly the Williams Foolproof but the 5D is a good alternative. Next up is the modern Lyman aluminum version. I shoot tang sights including the old Lyman #2 and Marbles but I don't like them on most rifles. However for some they are THE only game in town.

[PaperPatch]

What does everyone use besides a scope to improve accuracy for paper punching and hunting purposes?

Practice.


Several hundred rounds of it!

[adirondakjack]

I like a Marbles tang peep myself. They do run a bit over $100, but it's money well spent.

[COSteve]

I've got a Marbles tang mount on my 357 and a Williams receiver mount on my little Henry 22lr. Both do well if you keep your eyes as close to the aperture as you can. That way your depth of field is greater than with a regular rear sight.

[J Miller]

I use either the Williams FP 94/36 or the Lyman 66A on my 94s. If the rifle does not come with a post type front sight, I put one on it. Never could shoot a peep sight well with a bead front.

BTB Pic K.JPG

Williams FP-left, Lyman 66A-right


Joe

[AJMD429]

I put lots of work into these photos of views through various sights, including the Williams and XS, and the Marble's Bullseye -

See if this link helps - http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... 80#p246623

I think it may help you visualize the sight pictures you'll get, including the 'ghost ring' setups.

Accuracy-wise, I'm as good with a Ghost-ringed Williams FP (or 5D) as a 6x scope (the scope just helps see better in dim light). The Marble's "Bullseye" sight equates to about a 4x scope for me, and the Williams with the aperture in place gets me to maybe 8x equivalent in what I can hit. The 'tang' sights I've not used 'ghost-ringed' but with apertures they seem to me about like the Marble's Bullseye one (yes, I know the sighting radius is MUCH better with the tang - it's just me I guess), and since the Bullseye ones are SO fast to use, I do like them. They also obscure very little view vs. ALL the other sights I've used. If they were as easy to adjust as the Williams, they'd be all I'd use.

Front-sight wise, Lyman makes 'Globe' ones that use dovetails or ramps, and they are probably the most accurate of all, but perhaps fragile. A 1/16" (or larger if you prefer) brass bead is fairly easy to put in as a replacement, as well, on dovetail or ramp installations. The fiberoptic (i.e. 'Firesight') ones are also available and slip in easily, being more visible under field conditions (try the green and yellow though - not just the orange - fibers for replacement $18 I think for all 3 colors in 4" strands). If you have a 'built-in' sight that isn't very replaceable, you can carefully dimple the front with a Dremel tool and dab white paint in the hole, or get real adventerous and drill through the middle of it front to back, then open a 'window' on the top for light, and slip a fiber-optic strip in it. 'Bow' fiberoptics I think are thinner, if you prefer.

[1886]

I put lots of work into these photos of views through various sights, including the Williams and XS, and the Marble's Bullseye -

See if this link helps - http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... 80#p246623

I think it may help you visualize the sight pictures you'll get, including the 'ghost ring' setups.

Accuracy-wise, I'm as good with a Ghost-ringed Williams FP (or 5D) as a 6x scope (the scope just helps see better in dim light). The Marble's "Bullseye" sight equates to about a 4x scope for me, and the Williams with the aperture in place gets me to maybe 8x equivalent in what I can hit. The 'tang' sights I've not used 'ghost-ringed' but with apertures they seem to me about like the Marble's Bullseye one (yes, I know the sighting radius is MUCH better with the tang - it's just me I guess), and since the Bullseye ones are SO fast to use, I do like them. They also obscure very little view vs. ALL the other sights I've used. If they were as easy to adjust as the Williams, they'd be all I'd use.

Do not sell yourself short, that was a
lot of work. Thanks for all of the valuable info. 1886.

[Chuck 100 yd]

For me and PURE ACCURACY with iron sights....
A globe front sight with an aperture insert (for round bull paper targets) is the most accurate of all.
Coupled with any good receiver or tang peep sight with an aperture that allows you to see the front sight CLEARLY and watch out, you will amaze yourself with little groups at long distances.
I have shot 3/4" 100yd. five shot groups using the factory sight set up on my Browning 1885 BPCR in .40-65 and black powder.

[Bruce Scott]

This is a vey accurate setup. The sight is a 1930s vintage BSA with an adjustable aperture - pretty ugly but robust. The rubber hood is removable and there is a globe out front with a flat topped post insert. I use it as is for pinging feathered vermin (its a .22) around the garden.

[MrMurphy]

I've used the XS ghost rings. For paper targets, it's accurate enough though not as much as some dedicated target sights.

For field use it's quick and handy. Nailed a coyote in the dark with one on my Marlin.

The Williams and fiberoptic setups would be my other pick.

[71fan]

Any receiver sight with a screw in aperture works for me, with a thin post front sight like the Skinner fronts. I also use a Lyman 17 up front on a few of mine so I have a choice of front sights. I like to used the crosshair with the circle in it for paper punching. The 17s aren't the greatest for low light conditions though and I have not used them in the field.

[RKrodle]

XS make a threaded aperture for theirs also, you can order them from Brownels and the Williams peeps will screw into it.

[Bill_Rights]

A detailed question about Marble Arms BullsEye on Rossi M92 20" barrel, .45LC/.454 Casull:

PLEASE FORGIVE ME, this will be a duplicate question answer (for some forum member) - I seem to have misplaced the link to the answer I seek....

I have a new Rossi M92 20" barrel, .45LC/.454 Casull arriving next week or so, and I have decided on the Marble Arms BullsEye for the rear sight. Being a pure functionalist, I will probably replace the front sight with a "fiber" light-gatherind bead/tube of some color or other (or order a few lengths of different color fiber and swap 'em in and out myself).

How high is the centerline of the BullsEye rear sight off the bore line? (I realize there are three BullsEyes, the fixed height, the short adjustable and the long adjustable). But what is the middling height-above-bore when these sights are mounted in the dovetail slot that the Rossi factory rear sight came mounted in? AS A STARTING POINT, I WANT THE LINE BETWEEN THE CENTER OF THE REAR SIGHT AND THE CENTER OF THE FRONT BEAD TO BE PARALLEL TO THE BORE, right? Please correct me if this seemingly obvious criteria is wrong...(!) In case it matters, I will probably sight in at 50 yards with up-loaded .45LC or down-loaded .454 Casull.

If I knew that rear sight height, I could select the front sight of the correct height. I thought I looked at the Marble Arms web site and couldn't find the BullsEye heights...(?) Or was I looking on Brownell's (?).

Thanks for your help. This will be my first levergun, and you folks on this forum have been great, so far. (Yes, I am in contact with Nate Kiowah Jones and will order video and several parts [e.g., metal mag follower] to improve the NIB rifle itself.)

[Bill_Rights]

OK, I have started my own research.

1) Marble Arms gives help with calcul;ating height of both front and rear sights (at least for the #30 Universal Rear Sight) here:
http://www.marblearms.com/universalRearSights_info.html
General idea should be applicable to BullsEye or other type sights.... (By the way, I like the "Large Peep Style" of #30 Universal Rear Sight, as a next best to the BullsEye in terms of speed of sight-picture acquisition and MILES AHEAD in terms of adjustability, durability and stability)

2) I see that a number of front sight options come with "ramps" that would allow me to adjust the height of the front sight. That'd be cool! Still have to figure whether such a ramp could install in the Rossi's front dove-tail slot.....?

[Bill_Rights]

Whoops. Apparently none of the Marble Arms front sight ramps are intended for height adjustment, least that I've seen so far.... (RE #2 in post above)

[madman4570]

Use CIR-CUT ARCHERY GLOW IN THE DARK LUMINOUS PAINT over my Raybar Rifle sights on Ithaca 37
Use Mepro Sights on my Hoyt Super Slam Extreme Bow.

While these don't do much more for accuracy,for hunting they work very well.

Good Luck!

[Griff]

What does everyone use besides a scope to improve accuracy for paper punching and hunting purposes?

Practice.
Several hundred rounds of it!

This is THE answer. I know, 'cause I don't and my shooting shows it!

There are sights that I think are better than either Marbles or the Lyman. Tho' of the two, the Marbles, with it's windage adjustment is the better for it's adjustability, but I like the Lyman for it's sturdiness.

The one I liked best is no longer available, as it combined the best of both the Marbles & Lyman. If you're thinking of spending over $100 for either the Lyman and Marbles you'd be well advised to shop around... they're easily found for under $100.

In conjunction with these from: Jeff's Outfitters make for an inexpensive combination with lots of options.

[Old Time Hunter]

Got just about all of them and I keep going back to the XS Ghost Ring set up....but I am getting old.

Hey Griff, you think that that Marbles Globe sight would work on a Springfield Trapdoor with a standard 1879 rear sight?

[kid_couteau]

I have a Marlin 1895 in 45-70 that has a Lyman #2 on the tang and a Lyman globe up front.

I LOVE it

Why they do not drill and tap all of the new guns for tang sights I do not know
Kid