OT - Lion Charge

[deerwhacker444]

Hadn't seen this one.

I think I'll just stay on this continent......I'm all for adrenaline, but that is too close.

Lion Charge

[madman4570]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CNgwZgo ... re=related



Lucky the idiots didn't shoot each other?
Kind of pulling for the lion on this one??

[Gobblerforge]

Oh, he77 no.
Gobbler

[TedH]

Not sure I'd want him close enough to slobber on me, but how exciting would that be!!! I wouldn't be able to sleep for a week.

[86er]

This is why I say that it is irresponsible for a PH to hunt dangerous game with a bolt gun. At a few feet off the gun a big bore double would make quite an impression, and the second shot is instantly there. Looks like fun to me!

[76/444]

I don't like the way my barn cats mess with kangaroo rats. Makes me thankful they are only 5 or 6 pounds. Small or big, they are just born killing machines. Even my five dogs don't mess with my old momma cat. She has taught them all their lessons.

[Tomcatt57]

What ever that guy is shooting, it took the wind right out of that big cats sails fast.
Tomcatt

[Kansas Ed]

I watched the second video several times and I'm not so sure that one fella wasn't shot just after the cat got back up and made a run for it. And it looks to me like the fella that got knocked down on the first run shot at the cat when the guy was directly in the line of fire. If you notice the guy in question goes down hard, though the cat doesn't appear to be close to him at the time.


Ed

[TedH]

I watched the second video several times and I'm not so sure that one fella wasn't shot just after the cat got back up and made a run for it. And it looks to me like the fella that got knocked down on the first run shot at the cat when the guy was directly in the line of fire. If you notice the guy in question goes down hard, though the cat doesn't appear to be close to him at the time.


Ed

I went back and watched it several times again now. It did at first look like he may have been shot, but you can see each of those shots impacting the dirt behind the lion. Watching closely, I think the man that went down was trying to back himself up and tripped over something.

[1886]

Watching the video closely, one can see the killing shot impact the lion. That is a lot of pi--ed off cat to have in one's lap. The damage that cat would have done to that poor dude.... Never having hunted big cats, I can not help but to agree with Joe. A double is the way to go. 1886.

[2571]

I've seen this before, but with more background sound. My cousin, a recently returned missionary, could understand the language & what was being said. The background comments were unpleasant remarks made by one of the locals about inferior shooting abilities of the sportsmen. She would not translate literally, making me assume extensive profanity was involved .

[madman4570]

Looks like fun to me!

Joe,
You are probably about the only one on here that I would actually believe really means that! (Fun????????? )
Dude, That would not be fun for yours truely. (under pants changing time)You are wired different from the rest of us--Joe

[Jacko]

That is that would most definately be classed as fun - unless of coarse you missed Now ask yourself do you have the balls to line up for round 2 or have you had enough fun for one African Safari, personnally I'd be looking for the Cape Buffalo next

regards Jacko

PS - I'm full of it - I think twice about going into long grass after a wounded Boar

[pharmseller]

I'll tell you what, if I had been the cat in that second video there'd be at least two fewer bwanas in the world before I gave it up.

P

[Doc Hudson]

This is why I say that it is irresponsible for a PH to hunt dangerous game with a bolt gun. At a few feet off the gun a big bore double would make quite an impression, and the second shot is instantly there. Looks like fun to me!

I can't help but agree. After all a big bore double has been the standard for over 100 years.

Then I think about the cost of a good quality big bore double and understand why many use bolt-actions.

[Doc Hudson]

personnally I'd be looking for the Cape Buffalo next ::

Cape Buffalo ain't easy. Just ask these cats: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU8DDYz68kM

[TCB in TN]

I don't know if I would like to do that or not. I have hunted some big hogs, killed a few with a knife, and even live caught several. Thought I was a bit nuts to go there, but I have to say seeing that big cat barreling down on me would likely cause me to need to change the britches! It is amazing but that kill shot hit the cat real close to the end of the barrel. Always thought I would like to do the african big 5, but think if I ever do I would like at least a little more room than that!

[Nath]

Now that is when an unscoped gun should be used and ditto what Joe says about a double.

I wonder though if a double smoothbore and a 1oz+ ball would be a good tool for that hunting situation.

Nath.

[Doc Hudson]

Always thought I would like to do the african big 5, but think if I ever do I would like at least a little more room than that!

me too!

A little more room and a lot more gun!

maybe i should watch the video again, but it seemed to me that the recoil didn't match up what you'd expect from something .375 H&H or larger.

86er, am I not correct in understanding that at least some African countries require a .40 cal or larger for dangeous game?

It occurs to me that not only did that fellow shoot that lion too far back but he might well have been undergunned to go playing with the big puddy-tats

[86er]

Most countries have a .375/4000 lbs/ft energy requirement for dangerous game. Some have a .40 cal min and RSA has no restriction for the country and some restrictions for the individual territories.

[flounderjig]

The second video is of a south Texas oral surgeon, lives here on the coast. The following year he went after elephant and got one. He is a interesting guy, pulled some of my teeth awhile back, he is easy going quiet type with big b-ll's.

[madman4570]

he is easy going quiet type with big b-ll's.

Hmm, I think, "really" if he had them,he wouldn't have had half of everbody in Africa shooting also!

I don't mean that to cut anyone down but that right there is kinda like hunting a deer in a tree stand
with C'Mere Deer spread all over the ground and doe scent spread all over."cheating"?
If that way floats your boat,and you can convince yourself.That's fine.
I know a PH thinks different and that is fine(it's his job to save the client's life.But for my own self,If I can't
take the animal myself(for me----not worth it)

If he really had what you say,he would have had a double rifle"waited to make a proper shot"himself and did the animal the respect it deserves.
Only one that impressed me was the Lion!
Also terrible planning on the first shot ?????????

[Buck Elliott]

he is easy going quiet type with big b-ll's.

Hmm, I think, "really" if he had them,he wouldn't have had half of everbody in Africa shooting also!

I don't mean that to cut anyone down but that right there is kinda like hunting a deer in a tree stand
with C'Mere Deer spread all over the ground and doe scent spread all over."cheating"?
If that way floats your boat,and you can convince yourself.That's fine.
I know a PH thinks different and that is fine(it's his job to save the client's life.But for my own self,If I can't
take the animal myself(for me----not worth it)

If he really had what you say,he would have had a double rifle"waited to make a proper shot"himself and did the animal the respect it deserves.
Only one that impressed me was the Lion!
Also terrible planning on the first shot ?????????

Ahhh...
But you were not there...

[TedH]

he is easy going quiet type with big b-ll's.

Hmm, I think, "really" if he had them,he wouldn't have had half of everbody in Africa shooting also!

I don't mean that to cut anyone down but that right there is kinda like hunting a deer in a tree stand
with C'Mere Deer spread all over the ground and doe scent spread all over."cheating"?
If that way floats your boat,and you can convince yourself.That's fine.
I know a PH thinks different and that is fine(it's his job to save the client's life.But for my own self,If I can't
take the animal myself(for me----not worth it)

If he really had what you say,he would have had a double rifle"waited to make a proper shot"himself and did the animal the respect it deserves.
Only one that impressed me was the Lion!
Also terrible planning on the first shot ?????????

Ok then, go out with your guide and trackers. Find a lion and tell nobody else to shoot it after you shoot??? Doubt that's gonna happen friend. You can't predict how an animal like that will react to the shot. If a dangerous animal is still on it's feet after you take your first shot, any guide/PH worth his salt will start pumping lead that way too. To think the only way it would be satisfying would be for only YOUR bullets to harvest the animal is mostly fantasy as far as hunting dangerous game goes. Might as well stick with whitetails.

[KirkD]

Now THAT is my idea of a good time! It just doesn't get any more fun than that.

[TCB in TN]

I know a PH thinks different and that is fine(it's his job to save the client's life.But for my own self,If I can't
take the animal myself(for me----not worth it)

It IS his job to save your life, even if you are not smart enough to understand it! (Not meaning your personally)

Us keyboard jockeys do a lot of talking and know a lot less about it than does the guy actually out there in the bush. We may THINK we know, but the guy who is out there all the time DOES know. When you mess up on a white tail, you either make a bad shot and wound it, and have to work to find it or you just miss it and all is really fine. You screw up on a 400lb cat and he eats you and the PH's reputation is damaged, and likely he has to live with letting you kill yourself!

[86er]

The law (loosely translated) 6.30.11: Professioneel Jagter shall take immediate action to dissolve a dangerous situation with a hunting client. Failure to take appropriate action is ground for license suspension or revocation. Looks like the PH better have a legal rifle and start shooting if a "dangerous situation" arises.
6.21.01: Prudent thought must forecome any action that may result in an accident, dangerous situation or risk. The PH needs to be careful when thinking about everything from leaving the first aid kit in the car to traveling off course at night, to crossing a bridge that has not been used in some time, and especially how to hunt dangerous game and how to respond to the unexpected. In the instances on film I think the PH's reacted okay but I don't think they were prepared for it and likely did not have the proper mindset for it. I hear all the time "I've never experienced a buffalo charge" from PH's. If you always shoot buffalo from 50 yds or more from concealment, wait for perfect broadside shots, don't follow up shot buffalo until waiting at least 1/2 hour you probably will never experience a charge. These guys are going out of their way to avoid a charge. While I hunt differently, they are doing it legal and they are probably better off "in their element" than doing something that doesn't suit their personality. Their clients are obviously okay with this method. Clients looking for a face-to-face encounter will prefer to hunt with me.

[vancelw]

Clients looking for a face-to-face encounter will prefer to hunt with me.

I started talking about maybe going to Africa to hunt and my wife said I had to take her.

So...I showed her both of these videos today and told her that was the kind of hunting I'd be doing (No, I really can't afford that kind of hunting right now) I asked her if she was up for that....

She never blinked and said, "Okay." She'd wrassle crocodiles for a chance to go to Africa, so I guess I can't get away without her.

Maybe I can get her to get a second job to help me save up for a dangerous game hunt???

[Bridger]

I'd do that in a heartbeat, but then I'm probably younger than most of you guys as well.

[piller]

That Water Buffalo hybrid that I took in Hondo with 86er was plenty exciting to me. 86er didn't seem to even be worried, and he probably wasn't. I would not even consider trying to kill a lion without a P.H. backing me up, and if the lion didn't drop immediately, then I would want him shooting, too. Listening to a good P.H. might be the way to come back with all parts of your anatomy still attached and in working order.

[Doc Hudson]

If I were hunting with a Professional and shot something that bites back and it didn't fall down immediately, I'd be right upset if I got off a second shot before the PH chimed in on the subject.

Yeah, I've always wanted to hunt something that will bite back. And i really want to kill it all by myself. But if I muff the shot, I dern well won't be bent out of shape if the PH makes a few extra holes in the hide. That is half of the way he earns his pay.

[madman4570]

If I were hunting with a Professional and shot something that bites back and it didn't fall down immediately, I'd be right upset if I got off a second shot before the PH chimed in on the subject.

Why??????????????? Cause,maybe you would get killed???? or because that's the law?????? or both?????
We have too many stupid laws. We must think very differently about what true hunting means to each of us.

Honestly, I can't say if I would think different while a lion was chewing on me after my second bullet from the big double did not end him????? I doubt it though.

What I will say is a hunt goes two ways.The animal deserves the respect and decentcy from you to be well prepared and if need be,have you put all your cards on the table.He is. Otherwise just stay home and shoot a stuffed animal or take a photo safari there.Honestly I have all I can swallow to have a PH have to aid(probably will actually find/decide the animal to take)but that I guess I can accept that.

When I decide if and when to hunt a African Lion and I cannot at least go head to head with it shooting both rounds FIRST and then ??? Their "are a certain number of people that feel the way I do",and that's our right.
If those terms cannot be agreed too ,then I will never hunt dangerous game there. period.
I have no problem putting my life on the line if I deceide to hunt that animal. Course I was always the kind of guy that preferred one on one sports and fought my fights by myself.
When the day is done at the end"you have to look at yourself in the mirror.But to each their own???????

Those that know me,know I am not blowing smoke!

But that is everyone's own choice,Again that second video the lion was "in my opinion" dishonored.

Having a PH call my Wife and say to her, your husband was tragicly killed this morning Lion Hunting,but let me say he was very brave and stood firm,that in my eye's is not a Bummer! My wife would have agreed and understood those terms I entered into.(I would miss them dearly though)

A Bummer would be the night before while sleeping in a hunting lodge,being bit by a Black Mamba,then told there is no avaiable anti-venom. That would be a bummer. But that too is Africa!

[86er]

In response to Madman4570 - I agree whole-heartedly that it is the clients hunt. You should hunt the way you want it to be. What happens when things don't go as planned is what divides PH's. One set of PH's will immediately shoot if your first bullet doesn't drop the animal. The other set of PH's will only shoot under two circumstances: the animal is shot but literally getting away at a good clip and the client cannot shoot anymore (for whatever reason), as [technically] this is required by law in some parts, OR there is one second and a matter of feet left before someone gets knocked over. You can tell what kind of PH you have by the rifle he carries, and how he gets you in for the first shot. If the PH has a large bore double rifle and carries it him/herself the whole time that is a good sign. If the PH gets you under 50 yds and keeps trying to get closer until the animal looks up at you, that's another good sign for those that want to "do it themselves". Other things to look for that are indicitive of a PH that "plays it safe": wearing a binocular bra - you know the contraption; always sending the trackers first; carrying or taking control of shooting sticks (one of the trackers should do it, not the PH); wearing a shiny wristwatch; glasses that are not removed in the presence of game or that don't have a tight-to-the-head strap; PH loading soft point (expanding bullets) on dangerous game. I'm not saying these guys aren't professionals that can get you your game properly, I am saying their behavior strongly indicates they will make every effort to avoid a problem instead of dealing with one head on and they do not have a strong survival mindset to fix a problem at the end of your boot tips.

[rjohns94]

I'm with Joe on this one. That looks like fun and really the way I would want to hunt a lion. I also wouldnt want a backup shot from the PH, and I would be carrying my double. I'm confident enough in my shooting to stand in there and get my two shots in if neccessary. I also agree with Joe that you should get the type of PH that matches what you want to do. I am a get in close and get it done type of hunter, or go home empty. Just Sayin! Madman, I agree with you Bro!

[Idiot]

This is why I say that it is irresponsible for a PH to hunt dangerous game with a bolt gun.

"Irresponsible?" You've tagged an awful lot of PH's with that statement. There are many competent riflemen that can operate a bolt action very fast and reliably. And there is significant record of many PH's saving the hides of many clients using bolt action rifles. "Irresponsible?" Hmmmm...

[madman4570]

In response to Madman4570 - I agree whole-heartedly that it is the clients hunt. You should hunt the way you want it to be. What happens when things don't go as planned is what divides PH's. One set of PH's will immediately shoot if your first bullet doesn't drop the animal. The other set of PH's will only shoot under two circumstances: the animal is shot but literally getting away at a good clip and the client cannot shoot anymore (for whatever reason), as [technically] this is required by law in some parts, OR there is one second and a matter of feet left before someone gets knocked over. You can tell what kind of PH you have by the rifle he carries, and how he gets you in for the first shot. If the PH has a large bore double rifle and carries it him/herself the whole time that is a good sign. If the PH gets you under 50 yds and keeps trying to get closer until the animal looks up at you, that's another good sign for those that want to "do it themselves". Other things to look for that are indicitive of a PH that "plays it safe": wearing a binocular bra - you know the contraption; always sending the trackers first; carrying or taking control of shooting sticks (one of the trackers should do it, not the PH); wearing a shiny wristwatch; glasses that are not removed in the presence of game or that don't have a tight-to-the-head strap; PH loading soft point (expanding bullets) on dangerous game. I'm not saying these guys aren't professionals that can get you your game properly, I am saying their behavior strongly indicates they will make every effort to avoid a problem instead of dealing with one head on and they do not have a strong survival mindset to fix a problem at the end of your boot tips.

Joe,
You are spot on. (the type PH I would only use)
I absolutely agree with you about the Double Rifle. I know in my heart you respect the animal and the hunter and would do both proud.This is what it's about.You as a PH and rjohns94 as a true hunter make me proud!
You both are true sportsmen and that is that!

[Mike Rintoul]

I can't move too fast, bad back problem. I'd expect to have a fair chance to shoot an animal as many times as I could or needed to. If it was hit and heading towards inevitable escape I would expect the PH to shoot to help prevent it. You pay when the bullet makes contact, good hit or bad. In the last few seconds I'd expect to be "saved". Irresponsible, well if you want the utmost assurance of being able to terminate a bad thing quickly you need more than a 375 and something even a hair faster than a bolt gun, so it is a harsh statement but I think there is truth in it.

[TedH]

Assuming my two shots didn't anchor the animal, because stuff DOES happen, I'd sure as hell want some body else to shoot the animal to prevent loosing it, or worse, me becoming the critters lunch. I have a hard time believing ANYBODY would rather get eaten by a lion they shot than have a guide/PH contribute some lead. But to each his own.

[rjohns94]

If my two from the double didn't do it, then I hope the 5 from the .475 limbaugh does. Still would rather go it alone.

[madman4570]

If a dangerous animal is still on it's feet after you take your first shot, any guide/PH worth his salt will start pumping lead that way too.

Assuming my two shots didn't anchor the animal, because stuff DOES happen, I'd sure as hell want some body else to shoot the animal to prevent loosing it, or worse, me becoming the critters lunch.

Which one is it, one or two ???
I would be shooting a Double Rifle.

Sure,after the SECOND shot, animal not down, getting away or bearing down PH go for it!(while I am reloading)or whatever.Really still would like to do the deal myself if at all possible(with risk)
I definetly would not want Joe to lose his license(so then /his call!)
After two shots the animal is 30 yards away about done(not getting away)I want to finish it!

[TedH]

If a dangerous animal is still on it's feet after you take your first shot, any guide/PH worth his salt will start pumping lead that way too.

Assuming my two shots didn't anchor the animal, because stuff DOES happen, I'd sure as hell want some body else to shoot the animal to prevent loosing it, or worse, me becoming the critters lunch.

Which one is it, one or two ???
I would be shooting a Double Rifle.

Sure,after the SECOND shot, animal not down, getting away or bearing down PH go for it!(while I am reloading)or whatever.
After two shots the animal is 30 yards away about done(not getting away)I want to finish it!

One or two shots, doesn't much matter. My only point is that I'm not going to be too proud to let someone else save me from becoming dinner if I somehow manage to botch things up. I think my wife and daughter would agree and rather see me come home in one piece.

It's a moot point anyway as it's highly unlikely that I'll ever have the chance to hunt Africa. Much less an animal as spendy as a lion.

[madman4570]

Ted,
I know lions are not cheap! But what a Hunt!
Friend, I hope a time does come in the future where at least you can make the jorney and hunt some of the stuff there.
After the daughter completes her College and that's done, I really want to do the deal!
Never know maybe sooner? Time will tell!
Best Wishes!