bad day with a .243

[Streetstar]

This weekend i took my younger brother deer hunting. He has a Model 94, but he is not a shooter . We have permission to hunt a lease in a western part of Oklahoma. This usually means 200 yard shots are a possibility. When i got there, i was relieved to see a couple of stands with , maybe max - 150 yard shots.
I was using my Guide Gun with leverrevolution ammo (iam not completely sold on the concept, but for whitetail --- a 325 gr 45-70 with almost any bullet should be good --- and the drop at 200 is only 7-8" )

I gave my brother a Remington model 700 in .243 to use after we verified that he can shoot good groups at 100 yards with it. I thought this might be a better 200 yard rifle than the '94 at 200. I am a bit leery of the leverevolution bullets for the 30-30 now too after reading 86er's commentary on them a month or so ago as well

Anyway -- back on point --- small buck with a broadside shot at 120 yards using 100 grain Core-Lokts - should have been a slam dunk right? Nope --- my brother said he flinched a little. The deer flinched, limped into the woods and lay down, but when he was approaching him 10 minutes later, the deer got up, jumped a fence and it was off to the races. It was also 15 minutes before dark -- one smudge of blood was found but the deer was not. I hope he is found today because it sounds like he may have been hurt, but IDK.

Anyway --- due to my recommendation of the rifle to a shooter without enough training to keep from flinching (deer shakes), as well as the recommendation of a minimum caliber, we may have have lost that little buck. My brother feels just horrible but i do too

Stories like this happen all the time, but i would guess most are not shared. I am just sharing here as a precautionary tale about the .243 and other small deer rifles which are marketed to new shooters, kids, women, etc. ----- make darn sure they can put the shot exactly where it needs to be put before turning 'em loose with it. The .243 takes thousands of deer a year most likely, but i wonder how many it wounds also.

Granted, anyone can make a bad shot with a 30-30 or a 30-06 too, but the chances for a better blood trail are higher to run him down if need be. I will never give a .243 to a beginner again unless i have seen repeatable range performances

[Old Savage]

I saw a fawn antelope his by a 30-06 in the right hind quarter from about 75 yds head squealing for the next county until the guy hit it in the chest a second time - a cautionary tale about bad shots.

[86er]

Sorry to hear that. The sarcastic part of me says the bad day with the 243 was the day you bought it. I'm not a 243 fan for a beginner rifle or for the inexperienced. However, I really appreciate your forethought in taking your brother hunting. It sounds like it was well intentioned and you had some sound reasons for what you did. Stuff happens. Mike Rintoul always says "A bullets gonna do what a bullets gonna do, and there's not much you can do about it". I think there are several lessons to learn and from your previous postings I think you are a guy that will take them to heart. I'm not going to try to point out what they are because not only do you know, there are probably more things than what is evident in your brief post. Probably the most important thing is to make sure your brother comes to peace with this and it doesn't sour him on more hunting. With any luck, you'll find that buck after all. I commend you for taking your brother out and for posting the story for everyone else. Good luck for the rest of the season!

[nemhed]

These things happen of course, but need to be viewed as a learning experience. I always try to give a wounded deer like that plenty of time (30-45 minutes) to bed down and die, or at least to stiffen up and be less likely to run when found. Some hunters will wait till daylight to trail a poorly shot deer. Having a good idea of how wounded the deer is also helps. Sometimes conditions don't offer the luxury of waiting to trail a wounded animal. Ultimately, there is no replacement for a properly placed shot. Good luck!

[FWiedner]

I have some doubts about the .243 because not long ago I shot a hog through a quartering shoulder at near point-blank range (approx 20') using a .234 Handi-rifle. The hog DRT of course but my concern comes from the fact that the 100gr core-lokt bullet moving at near 2900fps did not acheive a full penetration of the animal. My conclusion from that event is that the .243 may not be a good rifle for hogs.

In your case you stated that your brother is not an experienced shooter and that he probably took a bad shot.

I can sympathize with the loss of the wounded animal, but I'm not sure that I see the .243 as the weak link.

[86er]

On second thought, any well placed shot would be fatal but a shot that is slightly off mark needs to either expand to a great diameter to do internal damage or exit with a decent sized hole to let blood out. It was not the 243's fault directly, but indirectly this may have turned out different with a larger caliber.

[tman]

a .243 is adequite for deer with proper bullet placement. a .338 wm. is not an adequite deer cartridge, if u can't place the bullet in the kill zone. hunters who know what they're doing use the .243 for elk. it works as long as u place the bullet in the kill zone.

[Nath]

Now I ain't a 243 fan either but a bad shot is a bad shot what ever the hole in the tube is!

I also want to say good on you getting bro on a deer like that and tell im' it goes wrong for every one sometime, he must not quit but do the next one the justice it deserves to right the wrong here.

Good for you and good luck next time.

Nath.

[O.S.O.K.]

Hey, as said: learning experience. If it were a slam dunk, then we wouldn't be doing it - its the degree of difficulty that makes it exciting - and difficulty means there's a possibility of failure.

We don't often speak of this but its the truth.

As far as the caliber is concerned, I think the .243 Win is a perfectly adequate deer cartridge - especially for the smaller deer found in the south. Again, as said - its the placment that's the key. You did much more than a lot of people - you had him shoot it ahead of the hunt to check his ability with it - just the same as PH does with clients.

This should act as incentive for your brother to slow down and be sure of the shot the next time he's presented with the opportunity. And he needs to know that it is indeed a very common thing with newer hunters - and even some experienced hunters that don't take the time to practice with their magunum rifles....

Deer hunting is exciting! And it makes shot placement all that more challenging.

Oh, and kudo to you for spending time with your brother. You are there now to help him grow from this experience. So many don't have such big brothers - your's is blessed.

[El Chivo]

a bad day with a .243 is better than a good day at work...

Hey, keep the .243 stories coming, I'm thinking of getting one.

[76/444]

For a flat shooting , hard hitting light bullet, I don't know of any other caliber that will out do a 243.

Buck fever happens to everyone, at one time or another, imo.

[Dave]

That is a tough break but everyone loses a deer at some point. Just forget it and move on. If he shot the best he could and tracked the best he could that is all he can do. We have had great luck on deer with the 243 around here. He might want to consider shooting them in the neck. That drops them in their tracks. The 243 is ideal for that shot.

[Don McDowell]

If the shooter flinched and the bullet didn't go into the vitals, it doesn't matter much what the caliber, a bad result is coming.
Need to work on the buck fever, and remember that rifle is a repeater. The extra cartridges in the magazine aren't there just for looks...

[AJMD429]

One other factor - hunting in the evening is not a good idea for any amateur, or even for an experienced hunter, if you have to work the next day. Too many things can happen that have you up all night.

I learned both those things the hard way, too...

If I shoot a deer in the late afternoon or evening, I want it DRT and not running.

[Streetstar]

That is a tough break but everyone loses a deer at some point. Just forget it and move on. If he shot the best he could and tracked the best he could that is all he can do. We have had great luck on deer with the 243 around here. He might want to consider shooting them in the neck. That drops them in their tracks. The 243 is ideal for that shot.

Dave, i recall you posting pics of your boy with a couple of deer and a pig i believe he nailed with a 243. I know the cartridge is capable --- i just need to get the shooter to the range quite a bit more. Familiarity with equipment is forged by firing more than a few rounds downrange with correct form. When it becomes second nature, doesnt matter as much if your nervous.

My brother has confided in me that this will be the last time this happens under these circumstances. We'll hit the range before going out again for sure to work on that flinch (although buck fever is hard to duplicate at the range)

[deerwhacker444]

My brother has confided in me that this will be the last time this happens under these circumstances. We'll hit the range before going out again for sure to work on that flinch (although buck fever is hard to duplicate at the range)

It IS hard to duplicate buck fever. My dad and uncle get it real bad. So bad sometimes I just don't understand how they can turn a "gimme" shot into seek and find track job.

Be that as it may, the .243 in capable hands with good bullets is a deer slayer. I've seen enough killed to put my confidence in it. Try the Barnes 85gr TSX or if you don't reload purchase it in the Federal premium line of ammo. We've had great luck with it, check my post from last year.

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... =1&t=12358

I imagine everybody loses an animal eventually, those are the breaks. I lost a buck a few weeks ago with a bad bow shot so I know it will stay with him a while. Just don't let your brother give up.

[Dave]

That is a tough break but everyone loses a deer at some point. Just forget it and move on. If he shot the best he could and tracked the best he could that is all he can do. We have had great luck on deer with the 243 around here. He might want to consider shooting them in the neck. That drops them in their tracks. The 243 is ideal for that shot.

Dave, i recall you posting pics of your boy with a couple of deer and a pig i believe he nailed with a 243. I know the cartridge is capable --- i just need to get the shooter to the range quite a bit more. Familiarity with equipment is forged by firing more than a few rounds downrange with correct form. When it becomes second nature, doesnt matter as much if your nervous.

My brother has confided in me that this will be the last time this happens under these circumstances. We'll hit the range before going out again for sure to work on that flinch (although buck fever is hard to duplicate at the range)

That is a borrowed boy but I am trying to trade for him . He has killed a lot of stuff with his 243. He killed a whopper buck with it two weeks ago. He shoots 100 grain Core Lokt. He is a true believer in the 243. I think your brother has the right idea about range time. Gotta pay your dues.

[horsesoldier03]

I didnt read all the comments below your initial post but I did read a few. I have known a couple people to have problems recovering a deer after shooting with a .243. I think the caliber is sufficient, however not best suited. I have a Marlin 336 in 30-30 and honestly I dont see that big of an issue with a 200 yrd shot. Just this past weekend both my daughter and myself were target shooting and were keeping our shots in 3" at 150 yrds on a known distance range. The biggest mistake that I can identify that your brother did is something that I have done myself. No matter how well you think you connected with the deer, wait min of 30 min to 1 hr before you go tracking. I lost a nice 8 pt buck (first deer I shot with a bow) to that same mistake. I waited about 15 min and then started loooking. Just like your brother, I bumped him up out of the bed. Had he of waited, that deer would have bleed out. If you want a buck to fall dead when shooting it, your best bet is to stick with a minimum of a .30-30, .270 or .30-06 and take a shoulder shot. If you shoot any animal through the lungs, kidney, or liver, they will die but it wont be immediate.

[Pete44ru]

"Stuff" can happen with ANY gun.

My son, an experienced game shot with 35-odd deer, several bear, moose & caribou under his belt, shot a HUGE (his words, and he doesn't ever exagerrate) Maine buck with his scoped .44 Mag carbine @ 35 yds from his treestand while it was walking, the first day hunting this year, on our annual trip there.

The stag kicked both hind legs at the shot, leapt over a blowdown tree, and ran off into a nearby deep water swamp - NO bloodtrail, except for blood/hair at the site of the shot.

No buck, either - after 5 of us scoured the entire surrounding area for two full days, sadly.

Sometimes, "that's hunting" - as sour as it may taste.

BTW - He stopped hunting for the rest of this year's Maine trip, rationalizing that he had his allowed/one deer, and lost it.

.

[44shooter]

Unfortunately, unless you find the deer, we will never know how well or how badly the deer was shot. I'm not a fan of the 6mm's for big game, but I can not blame it in this case for lack of evidence. We will probably never know if a bigger bullet would have made a difference.

I know anyone can claim to be an expert after the fact, but I believe your brother would have better off with his own rifle. I know you were preparing him for a long shot, but he might have shot better with the 30-30 due to even very basic familiarity. The shot he did get was tailor made for the 30-30. In my experience .30 cals leave plenty of blood on the ground.

I'm with you on the .243 though. I know you can kill deer all day long with it if you use a good bullet and put it in the right place. But it is not very forgiving. I'm no magnum maniac or a heavyweight guru but I want more than a .243. I know that bullet diameter and weight can't make up for truly poor shooting, but its cheap insurance if you happen to hit your animal marginally.

And I don't believe a beginner should have to use cartridges that I wouldn't feel completely confident in.

Of course you know that! You shoot deer with a 45-70.

[Streetstar]

I know anyone can claim to be an expert after the fact, but I believe your brother would have better off with his own rifle. I know you were preparing him for a long shot, but he might have shot better with the 30-30 due to even very basic familiarity. The shot he did get was tailor made for the 30-30. In my experience .30 cals leave plenty of blood on the ground.

.

Unfortunately, he didnt find his deer yesterday. The lease holder over exaggerated the need for a "200-250 yard rifle" and we hadnt been to the land prior to this weekend to see the setup ---- so now we know

What you suggested about him using his own 30-30 is exactly what my bro has told me he is going to do next weekend. We have already set a time to get to the range this week to put a few rounds downrange with the levergun to ensure he is "on" at 100 at least and verify that his carrying handle (scope) is still zeroed.
As to me using a 45-70, well, i have reservations about scoping my Winny's, but have no problems whatsoever putting an optic on a late model Marlin--- i just didnt have one in a smaller caliber. I hate to say it, but i wish i had given my brother the 45-70 and taken the 243 for myself--- lack of a blood trail would not have been a factor, but on second thought -- just getting through a range session may have induced a flinch for a new shooter. Everyone in our crowd this weekend called it the blunderbuss, but i was surprised-- when i put the scope on it, it displayed bolt rifle accuracy at 100 yard with pointy Hornady bullets (not sniper rifle accurate, but as accurate as any run-of-the mill 270 or '06 hunting style rifle i have seen)

We'll see how it goes this weekend -- maybe we'll get a chance to redeem ourselves or maybe not , i will encourage him to break out the bow afterwards if he feels like it, we still have bow season in Oklahoma through early January

Thanks everyone for your encouragement. I hate to say it because i know a lot of you fellas still hold the cartridge in high regard, but my particular .243 is gonna get shelved from now on except for coyote hunting and similar things (strictly my feelings now, not condemning the caliber or anything)

[86er]

Just curious - does the fact that a deer was hit and left blood factor into the limit? Can you shoot more than one deer, does the law allow for not counting that one, is it an ethical or moral consideration? I'm not condemning or condoning. I am genuinely curious about what different States allow for and how hunters apply this situation when factoring additional hunts. Also, I admire the fact that you recognize the limitations of the 243 and are making a strong consideration regarding its use. I'm not knocking the cartridge overall but I am siding with a higher statistical chance of getting large expansion and bullet exit with a biggger caliber, and especially erring on the side of caution in the aftermath of this incident. Best of luck to both of you on getting a big one!

[Streetstar]

Just curious - does the fact that a deer was hit and left blood factor into the limit? Can you shoot more than one deer, does the law allow for not counting that one, is it an ethical or moral consideration? I'm not condemning or condoning. I am genuinely curious about what different States allow for and how hunters apply this situation when factoring additional hunts.

Ethically, I would worry about it more in an area where the animals are reputed to be scarce, but this is an area where some of the farmers are issued up to 60-70 cull and carcass tags per year due to a doe herd's propensity to wipe out alfalfa fields in relatively short order. I've also seen enough (on game cameras) spikes, small bucks, plus a couple of moderate size bucks (140-150 range 10 pointers) to recognize the male deer population in the area is healthy.
Rifle season here allows for one buck tag and 2 or 3 doe tags i believe, -- its always been my belief that you can't tag something thats not there, but i would possibly re-consider if the deer in question was one of the ones in the 140 range. If i lost a mature buck, i might tear up the tag and harvest some does as penance, but from what my brother described , the deer in question sounds like a smaller cull buck (not that that makes it any better, it doesn't --- but if he feels like going out again, i'll do my part to help him prepare)

[stew71]

Hmmm.....well 1st of all, I'm sorry that the deer was never found. But I can hardly place the blame on the round. The .243 is one fine deer round, especially for the smaller species. From your description, it sounds like bad shot placement and in that case, it might not have mattered which caliber he used. Flinching will certainly ruin the shot, even with a gentle recoiling cartridge like the .243. Been there, done that, but never lost an animal. Lost plenty of matches due to a flinch, though.

For the record, I use a Ruger M77RSI in .243 out here for our little California blacktails and Nevada pronghorns. Using the 100gr Federal load, it will anchor them in their tracks as long as I do my part and put it into the boiler room. Would I recommend it for a beginning shooter?? Only after a lot of practice and range work.

Good luck.