A discussion on rifles with the PH

Welcome to the Leverguns.Com Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here ... politely.

Moderators: AmBraCol, Hobie

Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.

Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Post Reply
86er
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4703
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:58 pm
Location: Republic of Texas

A discussion on rifles with the PH

Post by 86er »

My Uncle Jerry was a PH in Rhodesia and hunted professionally for US companies and entities for 25 years from the '60's until 1989. He rarely talks about his adventures but once in a while comes up with a good story. He has never really offered any anecdotes and only gives advice if specifically asked. I was on the phone with him last night and finally pinned him down. His responses were interesting, informative and specific. They also came right out without even a pause. What I asked was, "Uncle Jerry if you had to list 10 tips for rifleman what would they be?" He replied:

1) Don't shoot a rifle that kicks too hard or jumps too much. Either try another rifle in the same cartridge or shoot a different cartridge. This is a huge problem because people become entrenched in brands, names and labels and it distorts their ability to change. A guy with a rifle that doesn't behave properly will never shoot it as good as he could or to its potential.

2) Don't get wrapped up in a rifle. If it doesn't perform perfectly for you, alter it as many ways as you need to get it right. Who cares how much it cost or if it is "collectable". If you can't get it to work for you then get another rifle. If it is sentimental, hang it on the wall. If you want to collect rifles, don't shoot those. Too many guys hang on to a less than perfect rifle out of some nonsensical love affair with nostalgia, brand loyalty or sentiment. That less than perfect rifle always will be and so will their performance with it.

3) You cannot be over-gunned. This is a ridiculous term. If any good shot will work on the animal that is a good thing. You can be under-gunned. This is one of the hardest things for people to admit. It is not worth it to disappoint yourself and it is disrespectful to the animals. A 375 is a deer rifle when you are hunting deer with it, but a 243 is not an elk rifle when you are hunting elk with it. Ruining meat is a bunch of stuff. If you really need that extra one pound that may get torn then shoot a rabbit along with you big game or take a head shot. Even the eskimos who rely on every drop of meat don't even had a saying for ruining meat with a rifle. You can't eat it at all if it aint dead but you have to find it dead first.

4) Don't be afraid to take head shots. If you can shoot your rifle and it is as accurate as it should be you should be willing to take head shots out to whatever range you and the rifle can. This is really any range where the bullet is within an inch of where you are aiming. This is especially true if you are using a marginal caliber. When I culled bison out of Yellowstone in the '70's I used a 270. The group thought I was nuts, but I head shot them at 100-200 yards and mine all fell within a few steps of where I hit them. The body shot guys regardless of caliber had bison lying all over a one mile radius.

5) Don't accept marginal accuracy. Rifles could shoot three shots in to an inch and a half at 100 yards. I suppose this could have only gotten better. If your rifle can't do that you are cheating yourself when doing serious hunting. It might work for meat hunting but for trophy hunting I guarantee one day you will be disappointed because you lacked confidence to take a certain shot, can't take the shot because of the presentation or end up with a wounded animal.

6) A good scope with magnification makes it easier to hit precisely. If you don't have a particular eye problem, a scope is an advantage on standing game. Many times I've told a guy to shoot through a little opening in the brush or aim at a little wrinkle on the animal. The open sight guys can't see it or can't hit it. With that said, learn to shoot with sights. It will make you a better rifleman all around. If you have enough gun and are shooting still animals at mild range then sights will work, but I consider them meat hunting tools. If you are stuck on tradition you will have to make sure your personality is such that you are willing to pass up fully 65% of the opportunities you encounter. If you invest a lot of time, risk or money this can be detrimental to your success. Most personalities I've encountered are not prepared for an unsuccessful outing under such conditions, even the open sight guys that said they were were clearly disappointed, but it was their own fault.

7) Keep you rifle by your bed at night. First thing in the morning, shoulder the rifle, get a sight picture and work the action, three or four times. At night before turning in, repeat the same ritual. It is good for you and it is good for your rifle.

8) If you are worried about sctatching and dinging your rifle, sell it. It's not worth its full value if you shot it and moreseo if you don't have the box. A rifle like this doesn't enhance your field skills and especially if it's not like your other rifles it will cause bad habits because you will baby it when you use it. If your not going to shoot it under field conditions, it won't help your shooting a bit. A rifle's real worth is in the memories it helps to make. A rifle that is not a real collectable but the owner thinks is "too pretty to take out" is like a beautiful woman that spends all your money and sleeps in another room.

9) Set up a .22 rifle just like your hunting rifle. Shoot small game with it, year round if you can. Shoot cans thrown on the ground and figure out the windage and elevation hold as you walk around them shooting at them. Shooting small game and shooting cans like this in field conditions is a much better teacher than shooting targets in a sterile environment. You are better off with one .22 and one similar big game rifle than a slew of big game rifles that are shot sparingly and used for a few weeks per year. If you don't train, you won't improve and you won't have the second nature to make shots when they are presented in the field. You many never forget how to ride the bicycle but if you don't ride every day and push your own limits you will never win the race.

10) Don't blame a rifle or gun for what humans do with them. Never take an unclear shot or one that risks human safety or a working animal like a dog or horse. Guns go bang when someone pulls the trigger. That should be intentional and with conscious thought of where the bullet will go. No animal or stunt is worth the consequense of a greedy, egotistic or thoughtless pull of the trigger.
Professional Hunter
http://www.TARSPORTING.com
"Worldwide Hunting Adventures"

Professional Hunters Assoc of South Africa
SCI - Life Member
NRA - Life Member
NAHC - Trophy Life Member
DWWC - Member
rjohns94
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 10820
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:02 pm
Location: York, PA

Re: A discussion on rifles with the PH

Post by rjohns94 »

Good stuff Joe. I can attest that I follow many of his ideas. #2 really resonates with me. I am always trading and moving weapons till I find thosethat satisfy me.
Mike Johnson,

"Only those who will risk going too far, can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Eliot
User avatar
gamekeeper
Spambot Zapper
Posts: 17485
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 3:32 pm
Location: Over the pond unfortunately.

Re: A discussion on rifles with the PH

Post by gamekeeper »

Excellent advice. Thanks for sharing.
Whatever you do always give 100%........... unless you are donating blood.
User avatar
kimwcook
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 7978
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:01 pm
Location: Soap Lake, WA., U.S.A.

Re: A discussion on rifles with the PH

Post by kimwcook »

That's excellent advice. It's always nice to hear the wisdom of those that have BTDT.
Old Law Dawg
Mike Rintoul
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 162
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:45 am

Re: A discussion on rifles with the PH

Post by Mike Rintoul »

Now there's a guy I would have loved to hunt with! My hat's off to Uncle Jerry for telling it like it is, keeping it real and maintaining a realistic perspective! Joe, get him to write a book - I'll bet he's full of fascinating stories.
Mike Rintoul
Owner
Grizzly Cartridge Ammunition Company
www.grizzlycartridge.com
Cast Performance Bullet Company
Rainier, Oregon
(503) 556-3006
BigSky56
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2356
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:49 pm
Location: NW Montana

Re: A discussion on rifles with the PH

Post by BigSky56 »

Good tips 86, personally I found that if you stick to one rifle you get proficient and whether its varmints to moose you put them on the ground. Especially if you hunt big-game in a area that holds dangerous animals you dont have time to think about racking the action and safety's, which gun am I carrying today.The adage of beware the man that uses one gun comes to mind. danny
User avatar
Old Savage
Posting leader...
Posts: 16742
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:43 pm
Location: Southern California

Re: A discussion on rifles with the PH

Post by Old Savage »

Thanks Joe.
In the High Desert of Southern Calif. ..."on the cutting edge of going back in time"...

Image
RKrodle
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1960
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 7:14 pm
Location: Texas

Re: A discussion on rifles with the PH

Post by RKrodle »

Joe you need to get Uncle Jerry to come over for Christmas or something, it would be cool to set down and talk with him.
Ricky

DWWC
User avatar
TedH
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8250
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:19 pm
Location: Missouri

Re: A discussion on rifles with the PH

Post by TedH »

Good stuff, thanks for posting it Joe.
NRA Life Member
User avatar
Malamute
Member Emeritus
Posts: 3766
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:56 am
Location: Rocky Mts

Re: A discussion on rifles with the PH

Post by Malamute »

Very good post, with excellent tips. I'd enjoy hearing more from him.

I agree with his thoughts. I've long been a proponent of having a rimfire in the same configuration as the centerfire. When I hunted small game a lot in AZ, I was able to hit running rabbits with scoped rifles, as well as iron sighted ones, and airborne targets. Same with pistols. I attribute that to shooting a LOT of rimfire.

I liked hearing his thoughts on making your gun into whatever it needs to be to work best for you. I gave up worrying about "collectibilty" vs function, and make no apologies for changing my guns to be more user friendly. Brownings, older Winchesters, '03 Springfields, Mausers, whatever. Drill holes, cut barrels, restock, sporterize or whatever they need to be more practical, efficient, and useful.

I'm curious if there will be posts from those that feel Uncle Jerry wasn't a "real hunter" since he used glass or some cartridge that has any more performance/range than a 30 WCF? Uncle Jerry obviously had a bad case of "magnumitis". :roll:
"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs even though checkered by failure, than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat." -Theodore Roosevelt-

Isnt it amazing how many people post without reading the thread?
86er
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4703
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:58 pm
Location: Republic of Texas

Re: A discussion on rifles with the PH

Post by 86er »

Actually he used a 270 most often and used a 243, 308 and 30-30 next in line for his own hunting and collecting for museums and culling for wildlife agencies. His biggest gun was a 300 Win Mag and in that he used old British 303 215 grain copper jacketed steel bullets squeezed down to .308 for dangerous game management. When he took clients dangerous game hunting his tracker Sanchez had a big double rifle and knew how to use it. He did not use a big rifle because he admitted he was not good, nor fast with it. He was a lefty (sometimes) and there were no big bolt rifles in left hand action. Instead, he would let the client take a shot or two and if the animal was "getting away" he might tag it with the 300 Mag steel bullets. Sanchez knew when/if to shoot following Jerry's orders. Mostly, Sanchez job with the big gun was to stop a problem that might occur. I have heard one story where Jerry stopped a buffalo that came unprovoked by shooting it very close, I've heard he waited until it was 10 feet, in the head with the 300 steel bullets. I know he stopped a lion one time with the 270 and a Nosler Partition to the forehead. Again he waited until it was a few feet away. Sanchez was right next to him that time and said he didn't shoot because Jerry was aiming and hadn't told him to, but he was going to shoot in a half second more regardless. Luckily, he didn't have to. He only used the 300 in Africa and never used it in the U.S. Even his record book Brown Bear of 1977 was taken with a head shot from the 270 at 50 yds. Keep in mind his 10 tips are for what he considers to be a client, not a professional.
Professional Hunter
http://www.TARSPORTING.com
"Worldwide Hunting Adventures"

Professional Hunters Assoc of South Africa
SCI - Life Member
NRA - Life Member
NAHC - Trophy Life Member
DWWC - Member
tman
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3243
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:43 pm

Re: A discussion on rifles with the PH

Post by tman »

thank you, #9 is especially wise.
Pete44ru
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 11242
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:26 am

Re: A discussion on rifles with the PH

Post by Pete44ru »

Excellent post !

I'm a big fan of #8, myself, especially appreciating the last:

"If you are worried about scratching and dinging your rifle, sell it. It's not worth its full value if you shot it and moreseo if you don't have the box. A rifle like this doesn't enhance your field skills and especially if it's not like your other rifles it will cause bad habits because you will baby it when you use it. If your not going to shoot it under field conditions, it won't help your shooting a bit. A rifle's real worth is in the memories it helps to make. A rifle that is not a real collectable but the owner thinks is "too pretty to take out" is like a beautiful woman that spends all your money and sleeps in another room."

.
pharmseller
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1005
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2007 9:17 am
Location: Willamette Valley, OR, USA

Re: A discussion on rifles with the PH

Post by pharmseller »

Nice tips!
I'm not good enough to take head shots, and I know it.
As far as pretty rifles, if I can't drop it without crying, I won't buy it.
Give me enough chances to fall and by golly, I will.

P
We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle, our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on the one hand, of overwhelming power on the other.

General George C. Marshall, 1942
User avatar
Paladin
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1891
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:55 am
Location: Not Working (much)

Re: A discussion on rifles with the PH

Post by Paladin »

TedH wrote:Good stuff, thanks for posting it Joe.
+1
It is not the critic who counts
LeverBob
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1028
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 7:14 pm
Location: Dayton, Nevada

Re: A discussion on rifles with the PH

Post by LeverBob »

IMHO this post is sooo good it should be a sticky...what do the pards think?

Anytime I can gain knowledge I'm for it. This is one of those times. G-D bless that old man...he's a treasure 'fer sure!

LB
86er
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4703
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:58 pm
Location: Republic of Texas

Re: A discussion on rifles with the PH

Post by 86er »

Since this was well received, I'm going to ask Uncle Jerry to answer so pointed questions I will compile and I'll run another post with the answers in the near future.
Professional Hunter
http://www.TARSPORTING.com
"Worldwide Hunting Adventures"

Professional Hunters Assoc of South Africa
SCI - Life Member
NRA - Life Member
NAHC - Trophy Life Member
DWWC - Member
rjohns94
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 10820
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:02 pm
Location: York, PA

Re: A discussion on rifles with the PH

Post by rjohns94 »

Tremendous!!!
Mike Johnson,

"Only those who will risk going too far, can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Eliot
wilko
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 190
Joined: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:59 pm
Location: Ct

Re: A discussion on rifles with the PH

Post by wilko »

yikes... perfect common sense post !!! i fully agree with everything but wouldnt try a headshot myself.. :D
i agree this post should be a sticky !!


"I'm curious if there will be posts from those that feel Uncle Jerry wasn't a "real hunter" since he used glass or some cartridge that has any more performance/range than a 30 WCF? Uncle Jerry obviously had a bad case of "magnumitis".

:D lol i was thinking the same thing... the anti scope guys must not like uncle Jerry much
"there's a man going around, taking names.."
Rusty
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 9528
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:37 pm
Location: Central Fla

Re: A discussion on rifles with the PH

Post by Rusty »

Well it's good to know what uncle Jerry thinks about the .270 as well. Jr. has one that was his grandfather's. I keep telling him it will do more than he thinks it will.
If you're gonna be stupid ya gotta be tough-
Isiah 55:8&9

It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled.
Doc Hudson
Member Emeritus
Posts: 2277
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:22 pm
Location: Crenshaw County, Alabama

Re: A discussion on rifles with the PH

Post by Doc Hudson »

Great tips and great incite, even if Uncle Jerry is closer to Jack O'Connor than to Elmer Keith.

Thanks for posting these tips Joe.

You really ought to pester Uncle Jerry to set down tips and advise for hunters and riflemen. he sounds like a mighty knowledgeable fellow. i can even forgive his .270. :twisted:
Doc Hudson, OOF, IOFA, CSA, F&AM, SCV, NRA LIFE MEMBER, IDJRS #002, IDCT, King of Typoists

Amici familia ab lectio est

Image Image
Image
UNITE!
.45colt
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 4738
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:00 am
Location: North Coast of America-Ohio

Re: A discussion on rifles with the PH

Post by .45colt »

Great post,#8 is exactly why I sold My Uberti '73 sporting rifle. It was way too beautiful for Me to be dragging in the mud.
User avatar
Mike D.
***Rock Star***
Posts: 4234
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Northern CA

Re: A discussion on rifles with the PH

Post by Mike D. »

:D :D I COULD NOT agree more. Very well stated.
"Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale, and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled or hanged"....President Abraham Lincoln
Post Reply