Embarassing... got too confident with a file...

[KentuckyLevrgunr]

The title tells it all. So I'm needing a replacement carrier for my Model 94. It's a post '64 top eject with the cast carrier in the 4,800,000 serial number range. I'm looking at a carrier from Numrich, is this what I need?

http://www.e-gunparts.com/product.asp?c ... 0&mySort=2

Any help would be appreicated. Greatly

[J Miller]

That pretty much looks like the right one.

What were you doing to the carrier with a file?

Joe

[Doc Hudson]

BTDT! Can't stand to wear the tee-shirt!

Carpenters have it easy, they measure twice and cut once.

When filing or grinding metal, you measure and fit forty times and grind/file 39!

Good luck,

[KentuckyLevrgunr]

Well, J Miller, that's an embarassing story. I have another 94, an angle eject in .44 Mag and if I drop the lever, cycle it slightly forward, then all the way back, then all the way forward, a cartridge comes out of the magazine and gets stuck under the carrier. Yes, it's stupid, but I've managed to do this a couple times. The only way to clear the jam is to remove the mag spring and follower and let the jammed round slide out the end of the mag tube. Well I haven't had a chance to shoot the rifle I messed up yet, but I had it disassembled for it's first real cleaning in 30 years and had a stroke of genius. If I can make the carrier drop sooner in the forward stroke of the bolt, a cartridge can't get caught under it. Of course, I didn't realize that by making the carrier drop sooner, it also won't have enough spring tension to keep the cartridge aligned with the cartridge guides. So I was trying to fix a problem that's caused by my own goofyness that I wasn't even sure I would have with this rifle in the first place.

[LeverBob]

Hey KL...don't self-immolate, we've all buggered up a part sometime in our travels. Name it...I've probably done it. But, I learned from it, just let it go. You know how to fix it now. Good learning experience.

LB

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Gunsmithing is rocket science, at least little lead rockets. But, it is not brain surgery. It's not reading all the how-to gun book or watching all the DIY DVD's.

Gunsmithing is just a series of very expensive mistakes you hope to never repeat.

[bcp]

Gunsmithing is more like rocket surgery.

Bruce

[KentuckyLevrgunr]

I appreciate it, really. I try to look at it this way: I learned from it, it's an easy fix if I can find the right part, I don't have a press that can reload 30-30 yet anyway (I have a Dillon 450 Jr. for .44 Mag), and at least it wasn't a pre-'64 .

[bmtshooter]

"Rocket surgery" ...... why didn't I think of that? Sounds appropriate for so many things.

[Hobie]

The problem with the .44 Mag is the cartridge stop...

[jlchucker]

Well, J Miller, that's an embarassing story. I have another 94, an angle eject in .44 Mag and if I drop the lever, cycle it slightly forward, then all the way back, then all the way forward, a cartridge comes out of the magazine and gets stuck under the carrier. Yes, it's stupid, but I've managed to do this a couple times. The only way to clear the jam is to remove the mag spring and follower and let the jammed round slide out the end of the mag tube. Well I haven't had a chance to shoot the rifle I messed up yet, but I had it disassembled for it's first real cleaning in 30 years and had a stroke of genius. If I can make the carrier drop sooner in the forward stroke of the bolt, a cartridge can't get caught under it. Of course, I didn't realize that by making the carrier drop sooner, it also won't have enough spring tension to keep the cartridge aligned with the cartridge guides. So I was trying to fix a problem that's caused by my own goofyness that I wasn't even sure I would have with this rifle in the first place.

This sounds like what used to happen with those tin carriers that they used in the 1964-1971 time period. When confronted with that problem I removed the screw that holds the lever link to the receiver, and dropped the jammed cartridge out of the bottom. by the way--speaking of the lever link, there's a little nub on the top portion that is supposed to hold the cartridges in the magazine tube until you cycle the lever down far enough so that the cartridge can come out onto the carrier. Did you check the link to see if that little piece is perhaps worn down enough to let the cartidge out of the magazine before it's supposed to?

[J Miller]

KentuckyLevrgunr,

The problem is the cartridge stop. That's the little projection on the top front of the link. It's either worn, chipped, broken off or you have a tolerance stack up.

94_30-30 link R Small.JPG

When you get the new carrier, Keep the file away from it. You are working on the wrong part.

You'll either need to weld up the tip of the cartridge stop or hammer swauge it longer then reshape it or replace the link.

Joe

[Hobie]

Thanks for the better explanation and photo Joe.

I had a 197-something Winchester 94 .44 Mag that did that. If I'd known the problem I'd have fixed instead of trading for a Marlin 1894 .44 Mag. That was an accurate rifle!

[Pete44ru]

Ya broke the 1st Commandment of Gun Buggery: If it ain't broke, don't fix it !

.

[KentuckyLevrgunr]

Yeah, now that I know what I know about the carrier, it has to be the cartridge stop. I guess it was just manufactured to the wrong tolerances because the rifle looks like it has less than 1000 rounds through it and I wouldn't think soft brass cases would wear it down that quickly. Jlchucker, that definately sounds like the way to go when it comes to clearing that jam. Last time it happened, I wasn't familiar enough with the action to even consider removing the lever link screw/pin.

But back on subject, is that the right part for the rifle?

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

Yeah, now that I know what I know about the carrier, it has to be the cartridge stop. I guess it was just manufactured to the wrong tolerances because the rifle looks like it has less than 1000 rounds through it and I wouldn't think soft brass cases would wear it down that quickly. Jlchucker, that definately sounds like the way to go when it comes to clearing that jam. Last time it happened, I wasn't familiar enough with the action to even consider removing the lever link screw/pin.

But back on subject, is that the right part for the rifle?

Yes, start with a new link.
The links cartridge stop double feed has been an on going problem with the pistol cal 94's. you won't see it mention much here but this is the #1 reason the CAS shooter don't care for the late 94's. I think it's because of the tremendous number of rounds they shoot for the game and it's accumlitive wear on the stop. But, it's more common with the 38/357 guns than the 44/45's.

Number One solution that seemed to help with the 38/357m guns is first change to a fresh link. But, I've actually drill the frame and link and made a tighter fitting pin to take up some of the slack. Some of the earlier 357m guns were really sloppy there.
I guess it worked out for that gun. But, I would like to know just how many more rounds the CAS shooter managed to get out of it to know for sure.