Button mags make more sense than full mags for hunting

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:49 pm

Well the 45-70 brawl seems to be dying down so I figured I'd start another free for all. On another thread, I saw a couple members allowing that they didn't like button mags. Okay, if you are going to use your levergun in a firefight, yep! ..... give me a full mag any day. But why would a fellow would fill his full mag right up with cartridges and then lug all those surplus rounds hanging off the end of his gun all day hunting? I have full mags on several of my old Winchesters but I can't remember the last time I loaded that mag right up when hunting. Personally, I think two rounds are plenty, but I like three just for good measure. If I'm feeling a little undergunned, I might stick in a fourth. A full mag made a lot of sense back in the days of the Indian Wars out west, but they do not make sense today on a hunting rifle. I like the look of button mags, and they make good sense.

I will say this, however, that I cannot stand half mags or button mags on a carbine. They just do not look right to me without a full mag. But for a levergun rifle, a half mag/button mag makes good sense and it looks good as well.

Mich Hunter · Post by **Mich Hunter** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:53 pm

The button mags really looked sharp on some of those old girls. I always like the looks, but they also carry very well in the field.

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 5:55 pm

I concur. A half mag also results in the hanger being hidden under the forearm ... a somewhat cleaner look in my opinion.

71fan · Post by **71fan** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:21 pm

I agree with your assertion Kirk. The majority of my Winchesters (six of eight) are 1/2 or 2/3 mag, be they 71s, 1894s, or 1886s. All were acquired with hunting in mind. Four in the tube is more than you should ever need and I prefer the balance of the stubby mags.

Interestingly, the three Marlins I own are all full mags. But they don't really count - one's a SASS gun, one a 39A, and the other is, well, a beast that is very rarely seen with a short mag (1881).

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:33 pm

I'm not saying for all but for some, a forward weighted barrel/gun aids in off-hand shooting.

When hunting, I generally carry my lever guns with a round chambered and one round short of the magazine capacity in the magazine. The reason I carry it one round short of the magazine capacity in the magazine is to relieve stress on the magazine spring as at the end of the day, I unload the chambered round and leave the rounds in the magazine.

I do like the looks of a full length magazine rather than a short or button magazine.

rangerider7 · Post by **rangerider7** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:33 pm

Kansas Ed · Post by **Kansas Ed** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:00 pm

I don't own a abbreviated magazine rifle (Audrey is the 71's official owner). I like full mags for the extra balance, and especially like the fact that I can spend all day hunting with a magazine full of cartridges and not feel like I'm obligated to carry any more in my pocket (deer hunting I generally figure on taking 2 to 3 deer in the first morning). Besides, I like the look of the full mag. If I was to ever buy a shorter magazine rifle, it would be the model 55. Really like that one.

Ed

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:08 pm

Hi Kirk

.
Button magazines are ugly. They flat out ruin the symmetry of the lever action rifle. The only thing uglier on a lever action is a scope. The only thing uglier than a scope on a lever action is a scope on a lever action with a button magazine.
At that point, why have lever action rifle at all? Why not just go buy a lousy bolt gun?

I do not foresee my getting into a fire fight while hunting, but..... with all the pot farms and crack factories being found in the woods today, it could come to that.
So by golly I want my classy lever action to not only look good and balance well, but to also carry enough rounds that I can shoot back if need be without having to reload every two rounds.

JMNSHO

Joe

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:13 pm

No argument from me Kirk.
I prefer the looks of the short mag. and plan to get a Marlin .30-30 XLR as my next rifle to go along with my .338 MXLR. Love the 336 SC and the 336A (early). The Win. / Browning 53 is also a looker in my eyes.

tman · Post by **tman** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:26 pm

ALL LEVERS SHOULD BE FULL LENGTH TUBE MAGAZINES.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:45 pm

Well, I just bought my first button magged levergun the other day. I have always liked a full mag tube on a levergun, but I couldn't let this beautiful Browning '53 get away and it has one. I'll get some pic's shortly and post.

meanc · Post by **meanc** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:00 pm

All my mag tubes are all full length.

Familiarity and shooting characteristics of a lever that's hunted with the same way it's practiced with makes more sense to me.

At the range I load it right up full. Shoot em off the bench, off hand, kneeling, etc...

When I hike or camp with one, I carry a mag full.

So it just makes sense to carry a full mag when hunting, too. Besides, the extra ammo is there if you need it. No need to go fumbling thru your pack or pockets trying to get them loaded later on.

adirondakjack · Post by **adirondakjack** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:11 pm

Mine are all full mags, and I used to stoke em, but no more. After 35 years, I've never fired more than two at a deer, so I figure four in the gun and I'm in good shape. Fewer to cycle back out when I get back in the truck. (required by law here).

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:16 pm

I'd rather have a 10-shot 1894 magazine with only 3 rounds in it (the way I usually hunt, because I can't imagine having to rapid-fire more than three shots and don't want to cycle all those extras through the gun before going inside - house rules at our place is to unload all but the 'defense' guns in the house), than to have a button magazine and wish I could load ten in it if things got really rowdy on the homestead.

But, it does seem like there'd be more accuracy if that long magazine didn't pull on the barrel all the way to the muzzle...

Of course, all you Marlin and Winchester guys should get with the program, and get yourselves BLR's, Savage 99's, or (my favorite), Ruger 96's...

2X22 · Post by **2X22** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:21 pm

tman wrote:ALL LEVERS SHOULD BE FULL LENGTH TUBE MAGAZINES.

I concur completely

I think of full length magazines much like a car that is capable to be run at 120mph but mostly you run it at 55mph. It has the capabilities for more, but more isn't always needed. I like a 1/2 magazine, similiar to my 71's and 64's but buttom magazines are butt(on) ugly in my opinion! I load mine up with 3 rounds for the most part when hunting unless I'm going to be packing my home on my back for a few days and then I'll go upward of 7 or 8. And if it is summertime and I'm on a long hike I"ll load 'em up all the way!

Plus, full length magazines just balance a rifle out juuuuust right

2x22

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:48 pm

I think different guns, balance differently. On an 86 Win I kinda like the button mag look, and I recond 2 or 3 rounds is enough at least 90% of the time, depending on how you hunt, and one own moral rules on shots taken.

Some people, think it's wrong to take a running shot, and will never shoot unless the conditions are perfect. I am not one of them. I grew up, hunting when shooting at running deer was quite common, and frankly, there have been several years in the past, when I would have had an unsucessful year, if I had not taken a running shot. To set the record straight, I have only lost two deer, that I knew I hit, and neither of those were running.

I used to hunt on some property, many years ago, that was hot on opening day, but the only place I had permission to hunt was an open field, between woodlots, and I ended up taking quite a few running deer, crossing that field. And sometimes it took 4 or 5 shots to connect, but I never lost one, that I hit. In this case I want a full mag with a at least 5 shots even though I always entended to make the first shot good, and often did.

One of my most memorable hunts, was on another farm way back when I was a young man, and the only chance I got at a decent buck, that year, was a running buck, that I killed on the 4th shot, from a Marlin 444, with an old Redfield receiver sight. I would have never bagged that deer, if I had only had 2 or 3 shots in my gun.

OH, I know, times have changed, I guess, and most people only take shots at standing, unalarmed game these days, but it wasn't always that way. And back then having 5 or 6 rounds up the pipe, made a lot of sense.

BigSky56 · Post by **BigSky56** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:50 pm

I like the short mag rifles you cant beat the accuracy of a 64 or 71 havent tried the others though. danny

86er · Post by **86er** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:51 pm

I have a short mag on my 1886 and my Glenfield 30. Full length on the 94 and Henry .22. I have no preference though.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:53 pm

J Miller wrote:I do not foresee my getting into a fire fight while hunting, but..... with all the pot farms and crack factories being found in the woods today, it could come to that.

Well now, Joe, you got a point there.

Now as far as you boys who don't like button mags, are you saying you don't like any of these fine old Winchesters?

Model 1886 .45-90 made in 1888 with a button mag and a full octagon barrel

Model 65 .32-20 with a button mag, made in 1939

Model 1886 .45-70 with a half mag, made in 1901

Model 53 .25-20 button mag, made in 1924

Model 1886 .45-70 with a half mag and full octagon barrel, made in 1904

CEMENTHEAD · Post by **CEMENTHEAD** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:04 pm

Like them both. Carbines with a full tube and rifles with a full or button mag tube. Thanks, Tom

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:07 pm

KirkD wrote:Model 1886 .45-70 with a half mag, made in 1901

Shotgun butt, pistol grip, takedown .... you're killing me.

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:08 pm

Those are nice guns, I wouldn't mine owning some of those for sure. I like the way they look, espacally an 86

2X22 · Post by **2X22** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:09 pm

Lastmohecken wrote:One of my most memorable hunts, was on another farm way back when I was a young man, and the only chance I got at a decent buck, that year, was a running buck, that I killed on the 4th shot, from a Marlin 444, with an old Redfield receiver sight. I would have never bagged that deer, if I had only had 2 or 3 shots in my gun.

That is a GREAT point! A friend of mine ran across a huge bull elk some 10 years ago. The bull took off running in the HEAVY timber and my friend started shooting. Everytime he pulled the trigger a tree got in the way. As it turns out he got it on his 6th and final shot, luckily he packed one extra in his pocket and used that as a finisher. If he hasn't had that many rounds loaded up he wouldn't have that 7x7 bull on his wall

2x22

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:22 pm

got both, like em all.

kirk, i'll take one of each.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Fri Oct 23, 2009 11:06 pm

pokey wrote:kirk, i'll take one of each.

Yep, Kirk, one each.

TomF · Post by **TomF** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 6:39 am

Guys, you'd argue with a stump!! Personal preference is just that. I have 16 leverguns with FMs and wish Marlin would make a button mag. I like the idea of loading 13 rounds in my 45 Colt. Fill the magazine or fill a pocket. Both are easy on the eye and OK by me.

Tell me if any one of you found a BM like what Kirk has posted, you'd buy it!! They're all good!

TomF

phc45-70 · Post by **phc45-70** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:31 am

But why would a fellow would fill his full mag right up with cartridges and then lug all those surplus rounds hanging off the end of his gun all day hunting?

Because, by god, that's just what men do.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:08 am

KirkD wrote:
J Miller wrote:I do not foresee my getting into a fire fight while hunting, but..... with all the pot farms and crack factories being found in the woods today, it could come to that.
Well now, Joe, you got a point there.

Now as far as you boys who don't like button mags, are you saying you don't like any of these fine old Winchesters?

Model 1886 .45-90 made in 1888 with a button mag and a full octagon barrel

Model 65 .32-20 with a button mag, made in 1939

Model 1886 .45-70 with a half mag, made in 1901

Model 53 .25-20 button mag, made in 1924

Model 1886 .45-70 with a half mag and full octagon barrel, made in 1904

Kirk,
Your photography is beautiful, but the button and half magazine rifles, I just can't warm up to. I know they are functional and all that, but to me they look incomplete. Like someone forgot to put the magazine on them when they were built.

If I had a choice between one like those in your pics or one with a full magazine, I'd take the full mag every time.

Joe

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:53 am

phc45-70 wrote:But why would a fellow would fill his full mag right up with cartridges and then lug all those surplus rounds hanging off the end of his gun all day hunting?
Because, by god, that's just what men do.

Well if you want weight, I'd recommend a Winchester Model 1876 with a full octagon, 28" barrel, loaded to the max with cartridges.

Gents, I'd have to say this was a pretty tame discussion. I'm a couple hundred miles away from home down in NY State visiting my brother and sister in law. Since the US doesn't let Canadians bring their guns across without red tape, forms and hassle, I'm separated from my guns as well, so I figured I'd start this thread. Y'all have been very civil.

buckeyeshooter · Post by **buckeyeshooter** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:11 am

KirkD wrote:
J Miller wrote:I do not foresee my getting into a fire fight while hunting, but..... with all the pot farms and crack factories being found in the woods today, it could come to that.
Well now, Joe, you got a point there.

Now as far as you boys who don't like button mags, are you saying you don't like any of these fine old Winchesters?

Model 1886 .45-90 made in 1888 with a button mag and a full octagon barrel

Model 65 .32-20 with a button mag, made in 1939

Model 1886 .45-70 with a half mag, made in 1901

Model 53 .25-20 button mag, made in 1924

Model 1886 .45-70 with a half mag and full octagon barrel, made in 1904

Not saying they are not nice guns, just saying we like full magazines. A 1/2 mag on an 1886 looks ok, but not very attractive on a 94 in my eyes.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:56 am

Looking at those pictures again that '53 looks really nice and sleek. I actually like the straight grip over the '65's PG.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:32 am

My Winchester/Miroku '86 XLR has a 2/3 magazine. I kinda like it that way, for the most part -- BUT -- I'm toying with the idea of installing a full-length magazine tube on the little beauty. The existing magazine holds about 4 1/2 rounds, and I carry it with a round in the chamber. This is wolf and grizz country, and I'm not quite as quick as I used to be...

The only "fire-fight" I can envision at the moment might involve some furry, fanged & clawed adveraries. If they are of the ursine variety, they will number one or two; if canine -- they may outnumber the rounds in my rifle. The extra weight of a few more rounds and the extended tube seems like pretty cheap insurance, should things get 'western...'

I have a couple magazine tubes left over from a project I did years ago, and a pair of mag-tube retaining rings as well, so the change would not be difficult. Just haven't commited to the process yet, I reckon.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:34 am

Buck, how about some before, during and after pics when you get started. I'd like to see that.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:37 am

Button mags look very good and hence the 3 shot group as the standard for hunting accuracy.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 11:42 am

kimwcook wrote:Buck, how about some before, during and after pics when you get started. I'd like to see that.

IF -- I decide for certain to do the project, I'll get it posted -- somehow...

Kansas Ed · Post by **Kansas Ed** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:06 pm

Buck Elliott wrote:My Winchester/Miroku ................ holds about 4 1/2 rounds, and I carry it with a round in the chamber.

Pray tell Buck...what good is half a cartridge? Front half or back half, or do you section them?

Ed

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:13 pm

Kansas Ed wrote:
Buck Elliott wrote:My Winchester/Miroku ................ holds about 4 1/2 rounds, and I carry it with a round in the chamber.
Pray tell Buck...what good is half a cartridge? Front half or back half, or do you section them?

Ed

Thanks for remaking my point...

The "extra" half-cartridge capacity makes NO sense whatsoever... Maybe I should fill the extra space with silver dimes -- you know, just for an 'emergency..."

FWiedner · Post by **FWiedner** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:49 pm

Proponents of the"button" mag really just want their barrel to look bigger.

sureshot · Post by **sureshot** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:14 pm

Teddy Roosevelt had the button magazine figured out a long time ago on his 1876 Winchester.
For a mere $28,000 you too can be one of the lucky ones to own a copy.

http://www.turnbullrestoration.com/store.asp?pid=20592

Steve

cas · Post by **cas** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:16 pm

I think all button mags are button ugly.

I've saved a number of your photos over the years to use as desktops, and while these are all nice guns and nice photos, I can't abide by the look and passed on all of em.

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:10 pm

double post

KirkD · Post by **KirkD** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:23 pm

KirkD wrote:
Buck Elliott wrote:This is wolf and grizz country, and I'm not quite as quick as I used to be...
Grizzlies you say. Well, I'd confess that if I was rambling in Grizzly country, then I'd be preferring a full mag and it would be loaded right up (though I do wonder just how much time one has to crank out 6 or 7 rounds when a Grizz is covering that 30 foot gap ..... might be better to make that first shot count). One other thing ..... my 30-30 is my travel gun, both in the wilderness and on cross country car trips. That one has a full mag and I like it that way. But that is because it may be called upon someday to do more than just hunt, much as I would rather it not be the case. But for hunting, barring Grizzlies, pot grows and crack shack operations, I prefer a button mag (except on my '76 and my 38-55).

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:35 pm

I like the look of a full mag, but rarely fill it.

I think balance is better with a full mag, except when the wind is blowing.

exception is the Marlin 1895 with 22 inch barrel and half mag, that balances very nice, I think it might be the perfect barrel length. I'd get one except they don't make it in any caliber I want.

A half mag might be a good idea if you want to mount a light in its place.

Buck Elliott · Post by **Buck Elliott** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 4:18 pm

KirkD wrote:
KirkD wrote:
Buck Elliott wrote:This is wolf and grizz country, and I'm not quite as quick as I used to be...
Grizzlies you say. Well, I'd confess that if I was rambling in Grizzly country, then I'd be preferring a full mag and it would be loaded right up (though I do wonder just how much time one has to crank out 6 or 7 rounds when a Grizz is covering that 30 foot gap ..... might be better to make that first shot count). One other thing ..... my 30-30 is my travel gun, both in the wilderness and on cross country car trips. That one has a full mag and I like it that way. But that is because it may be called upon someday to do more than just hunt, much as I would rather it not be the case. But for hunting, barring Grizzlies, pot grows and crack shack operations, I prefer a button mag (except on my '76 and my 38-55).

Wolves may be the best "excuse" for a full-length magazine, if an excuse is needed. I don't really want to find out, first-hand.

gak · Post by **gak** » Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:18 pm

+1++ for full mag tube all the time for all the reasons others have stated. If desiring fewer rounds, less weight under some circumstances, no reason you need to fully load...but you always know you can. A half mag tube, besides just not looking "right" to me, is like having a V8 with 4 cyl deactivation but volunteering to have it permanently engaged.

Very nice guns (pics) btw; only improvement I can think of is...full mags added

I agree the '86 "handles" the button better among those mentioned here, as does the combo of pistol grip vs straight stock. Still, for me, its full mags all the way.

OldWin · Post by **OldWin** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:44 am

For me personally,(can't give a good reason why) a rifle should hold at least 5 rounds. That being said, I own several short magazine winchesters and marlins and they always seem more accurate than their full mag relatives. Coincidence?

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:55 am

Well boys I like em all....but I prefer the full mag look....
When I am out in the woods...I usually will stick
4 or 5 in the mag....We have a lot...and I mean a lot
of bears down hear..and I have walked up on enough bears,
including sows with cubs... I like to be prepared......
The extra weight does not bother me....
and as a matter of fact....
I have seen very few button or half mags around at gun shows....

jlchucker · Post by **jlchucker** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:06 am

very nice Winchesters, Kirk. My own Winchesters all have full magazines, but that wasn't really something I was considering when I bought them. I've got a couple of Marlins with full magazines, and a 45-70 and 35 Remmie Marlin each with a half-magazine. Like some of the other guys posting on this topic, I never fill up the magazine tube on any--regardless of ammo capacity. For hunting I usually load only 3 or 4. We aren't waging war on deer, we're hunting. Big difference IMO. Those who think they need all sorts of gadgetry and large capacity magazines for hunting maybe should be helping our men and women out in Afghanistan instead of roaming the peaceful woods in fair chase of game animals.

alnitak · Post by **alnitak** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:34 am

J Miller wrote:Hi Kirk .
Button magazines are ugly. They flat out ruin the symmetry of the lever action rifle. The only thing uglier on a lever action is a scope. The only thing uglier than a scope on a lever action is a scope on a lever action with a button magazine.
At that point, why have lever action rifle at all? Why not just go buy a lousy bolt gun?

I do not foresee my getting into a fire fight while hunting, but..... with all the pot farms and crack factories being found in the woods today, it could come to that.
So by golly I want my classy lever action to not only look good and balance well, but to also carry enough rounds that I can shoot back if need be without having to reload every two rounds.

JMNSHO

Joe

LOL...I'm not as eloquent as Joe, ...but I agree.

rafter-7 · Post by **rafter-7** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 9:49 am

cc frame 2nd year with tracable case and blue at 85% 45/90 perfect bore

I hardley think its ugly

^
7

now you want to talk about HEAVY 38/56 FM 1886 with a full mag of ammo LEAD sled comes to mind??