300 grain N F in the 1895 .405 Winchester - Ramshot Update

[crs]

Per Don McDowell's suggestion, I emailed Ramshot to ask for suggestions for .405 loads and about the use of magnum primers with their powder. Meanwhile, I went to their website and downloaded the load guide ( http://www.ramshot.com/powders/ ) and learned that many of the listed loads used magnum primers. Naturally all the magnum and magnum-like cartridges did, but so did the .45-70 loads. There were no loads listed for the .405 WCF or the .45-90, but am now convinced that the magnum primers are the way to go with these powders. Multiple folks have recommended that I back off a grain when moving up to the CCI LR magnum primer and that sounds like good advice.

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Redding customer service came through with a #20 seating stem for the spire point NF SS bullets!
The #20 has a smaller inside diameter that allows less of the spire point to enter the stem and allows seating the bullet before the crimping bevel engages the case mouth.
Below is the original seating stem as it would allow the spire point tip to enter. The FPS and CPS bullets barely enter the opening of theoriginal stem and therefore seat properly.With the two stems, now I can seat and crimp all three NF bullet types. Now I can concentrate on working up the best loads for my 1895.



I have just begun loading these NF bullets for my .405 and loading the flat point solid (FPS) went well, but the Redding seating and crimping die is causing me problems seating the spire point expanding bullets. I have begun email discussions with Redding customer service to see what can be done and will report when this is resolved.
The FPS makes a pretty serious looking cartridge and chambers well in my 1895. I posted this picture on a thread on Win 1895 .405 rifles on Accurate Reloading also.



We shot my first FPS series of loads with IMR4895 Sunday afternoon and the top two loads were 2151 (51 gr)and 2202 (53) fps. The 53 grain load was the highest that I tried, as it was more compressed than the 51 and the average velocity increase had dropped from about 100 fps per 2 grains to 51 fps per 2 grains.
The average deviation was less with the 2151 fps load of 51 grains, so that may be the accuracy load with 4895. I will be trying some other powders soon to see if there a better fit to this new Hornady brass, NF bullet, and my 1895 rifle. I picked up some Ramshot TAC spherical powder when shooting at Ricky’s and may try it, since he and I found some promising TAC load data for 300 and 400 grain bullets in the 1895 .405. I may try a drop tube to get a natural compression with those tiny TACpowder granules. Has anyone here tried this with TAC in a .405 or other caliber?

[Don McDowell]

Slower powders worked a good bit better in both accuracy and velocity in my rifle with the Northforks ss's.(and the hornady's)
Might look to 4320,4064,rl15 and if you want the ball powder try some Ramshot Biggame.

[crs]

Don;
Thanks for the suggestions. Your experience with the NF in the .405 should save me some time and bullets.

[Kansas Ed]

I use 55 grains of IMR4064 with a 300 grain Hawk bullet...if you try the 4064.


Ed

[Don McDowell]

Charles somewhere between 57and 60 grs of those powders I listed is where thing generally really jelled.
If you can find some rl 12 is THE powder to use.

[crs]

RL 12, I have a pound of RL 11 - guess that really dates me!

[Don McDowell]

Never used any 11, but after I found out how well 12 worked in the 405, I found a place that still had some instock and bought 2 cans.

[crs]

BTT

[Dave James]

Not sure what area you posted over at accurate, but pop into the African Hunting section and look for Judge G, he had one done up and took it to hunt with,, he may be able to give some help

[crs]

Thanks Dave;
I have some information on Judge G. and his changes to his 1895, and they bear looking into. But first, I am going to try my new drop tube(just arrived ) with some TAC ball powder and see how that works out with the 300 grain Northforks.

Don;
Thanks for the tips. Since the burn rate chart says that the IMR 4895, RL12, and TAC are quite similar, and I have some TAC, I will try that next through the drop tube and see how it goes.
I will start a new thread after I get a chance to shoot and chronograph my next round of loads.

[Don McDowell]

Charles, that TAC might just work well in the grand ol cartridge, looking forward to reading your results.

[crs]

Don;
After studying the results from shooting the TAC ( the velocity of heavier loads varied a lot) and the N133 (very nice on the 2250 fps load) , I wonder if the use of a magnum rifle primer would improve the performance of the heavier TAC loads?
crs

[crs]

Oops!
I have just been advised that Ramshot has told some folks to always use magnum primers with their ball powders.
Back to the drawing board, hopefully with better results.

[Don McDowell]

Charles it may be worth the time to send an email to Ramshot and ask them for any recommendations in the 405.

[crs]

BTT for Ramshot update.

[eagles]

I have MODEL 1895 , the new Japanese one from Winchester that I had modified , in magazine and throat to take some longer 400 grain slugs as I heard was being done in some rifles being taken to Africa and using the 400 grain loads . I had some hawk , mid thickness jacket 400 grain soft nose jacketed bullets loaded up for me by Bob Shell reloading . I am trying to get 2000 fps as people have reported they got that and more (but never list the loads, that I could find ) Bob only loaded my loads with 45 grains of 4064 which seems like a pretty light load to me on paper . I'm guessing only about 1700 fps . I saw a load listed from an old 405 double rifle of 52 grains of H4895 that gave 1920 fps in a 23 inch barrel . can some one tell me what they believe that 45 grain load would do in my gun approximately of course and actually list some 400 grain loads with a jacketed bullet in a new model 95 to compare and work up to ? I have no load data to give Bob . Thanks for any real load data .

[earlmck]

I had a look at your 45/4064/400 load in QuickLoad just to see what it would say. 1730 fps is the QuickLoad guestimate, and that is at 36K psi which it indicates is slightly over SAAMI max. Interesting that the 405 would be limited to 35.5K when the 30/40 Krag is shown as 47K and the 30/06 at 60K -- all of which are chambered in your rifle.

Now I don't have a 405 Winchester, probably will never own one (no desire on my part). But I see what you 405 shooters are up against when developing loads with what appears to this kid to be a ridiculous pressure "limit". I would have been thinking more along the lines of 50K in a Miroku made rifle and that is what you are going to be hitting if you go for something in the 1900+ fps range with your 400 grain bullet. In QuickLoads, it looked to me like H4895 or Accurate 2495 would be likely candidates for getting there, and these would be compressed loads.

Once again, loads in that range will be waaay above SAAMI for that cartridge. I would guess you will have trouble getting somebody in the business to load to that level.

[eagles]

Thanks for the reply, I was guessing around 1700 fps . Your correct those must be old figures for old guns , the new 95 , also chambered in 06 can easily handle 55-60,000 Psi. My gun would not need a compressed load , as the barrel was throated so the slug could be set out a lot further with out touching the lands and magazine opened . A few others , one judge and one woman had the same type of work done to their new 95 and bagged caped buffalo with a 400 grain at 2150 fps but never listed the loads or oal. Im hoping some one knows . I love the 95 and the 405 round ! The guy who loads for me will load more if I sign off on it and i will , but I want to hear what they were loading as a reference point ,since its the same gun and slug . Thanks

[crs]

Eagles,
Click on the link below to read my story of taking a cape buff with my 1895 .405 and 400 grain Woodleigh bullets.

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve ... 2701040671

If you PM me your email address, I can email you information on loading components and pressures.
I did not post my load info that took my 400 grain Woodies to 2085 fps because I do not want to be responsible for someone misusing the information and causing damage to his rifle or himself.

earlmck is correct about the pressure heading to 50 K psi and above, but with your chamber extended, that will be mitigated to acceptable numbers. Powder selection also makes a BIG difference in pressures.

[AJMD429]

Regardless of the load you finally arrive at, that looks like a SERIOUS game-getting bullet in a time-proven cartridge...!

[eagles]

Dear CRS, I sent you a PM and email ,THANKS !!!

[piller]

Regardless of the load you finally arrive at, that looks like a SERIOUS game-getting bullet in a time-proven cartridge...!

If it will take a Cape Buffalo, it is a serious bullet for sure.