BATF Seizures

[Yodar]

Does anyone here read The Wall Street Journal?

The reason I ask is that just about every Thursday, in the B Section, there is a long state-by -state list of firearms and ammunition (some explosives and fireworks) seized by the BATF. The list in the May 21st edition covers two entire pages of very fine print.

Some firearms listed would be of interest to levergunners. For example a Marlin 1895GS in .45-70, a Rossi M92 in .45 caliber, and a Savage 99A in .308 were seized in Alaska.

Anybody know what is going on?

[mescalero1]

No good can come of this,
and we will be lucky to live through it!

[AJMD429]

Like the local "sheriff's sale" lists of stuff confiscated. If it is legitimately yours (i.e. stolen from you), you can claim it. Doubt you can buy it, but some local sheriff's departments (not ATF) actually auction off such stuff. The public always gets 'shocked' because the media portrays it in a bad light, but some of the guns I saw at one of them weren't all junkers; 'farm guns' mostly.

[86er]

Federal law requires that a listing of seized firearms be posted in the District they were seized and surrounding districts, as well as districts were there may be a nexis. The purpose is to allow someone to make a claim on a firearm if it was left for consignment, loaned, provided as a gift or stored. If so, you have to show documentation and file a summary of facts outlining how it is yours, why it should not be included in the items deemed to be "related to the offense", and why it should be returned to you.

I remember a dealer in Maine had dozens of shotguns on consignment but none were entereed into his log book. The customers had no idea of this. Some of the customers were able to recover their guns.

[Peter M. Eick]

My boss and I read those over and we were thinking about seeing what would happen if we claimed some of the ammo. I know I have lost a few 22 lr rounds at the range and had a couple of 9mm disappear over the years. I also distinctly remember losing a 30/30 round that was on the bench when I went to change targets and was gone when I came back.

Realistically what can they say? If you claim that you lost a federal 30/30 150 grn softpoint and they found one (listed for $0.10 per round if you noticed) how can they say it is not yours. Heck how can you say for sure it really ISN'T yours? It may be.

The guns I would avoid like the plague, but the ammo I think you have a fair shot at if you lost some or had some stolen.

[Charles]

Peter... May God have mercy on your soul if you fill out the Federal paperwork falsely claiming ammo you know is not yours. There is a good chance you will end up in the Federal Pen or at least have a criminal record that would prohibit you from owning firearms.

"But how did they catch me?"... That is what they all say just before the sentance is pronounced.

[Rusty]

AMEN Charles! I'd stay as far away from those folks as I could.

[donw]

remember...WE have allowed these folks to exist by the fact we allowed our elected officials to get away with establishing a bureau like this and giving them a 'blank check'...

WE need to start UNrelecting these people...

WE need to go on the offensive NOW...the heller decision should serve as the catalyst to launch an offensive to force governments to stop bullying legimate firearms owners by unneccessary, punitive, absurd, legislation they propose, other than good sensible enforcement of EXISTING laws; there are over 20,000 laws on the books nationwide right now pertaining to the ownership and use of firearms NOW.

[Charles]

donw... BATF is an Executive Administrative Agency created in 1882 as a part of the Treasury Department. It has been transfered to Justice and now to the Dept of Homeland Security. The U.S. Constitution (Art. 1, Sec. 1 - the necessary and proper clause of the 8th section) gives authority for the establishment such adminstrative agencies.

You are going to have to "unvote" generations of dead men to get rid of it and other Federal Administrative Agencies.

[donw]

charles...point well taken...however it is not the BATF itself that's the REAL target here. (IMO, anyway)

why is it that elected officials apply the constitution only in matters like that and tend to "misintrepret", don't understand or just plain don't agree with the second amendment and do what they wish anyway? diane feinstein and gavin newsome are but two that come to mind right off the top of my head. they TRIED, openly, to prevent honest, hard working people from owning firearms but fortunately, citizens stood up to them and prevented it...

feinstein was furious at the heller decision. these are but two of the elected officials openly trampling our rights.

that's my point...not ONE agencys orgins, rather, the open, arrogant abuse from ELECTED officials is my point.

voters can change legislators...legislators are SUPPOSED to respond to the wishes of the PEOPLE, not the other way around. if a legislator, or agency, for that matter, becomes abusive should they not answer to the "boss"? who is supposed to be the "boss"?

"A government OF the people, BY the people, FOR the people." we, the voters, elect those whom we beileve are doing what we wish, if they don't...they need to be replaced.

[Charles]

donw.. You won't get any argument from me on any of your points. The only comment I have is a historical one. Our Founding Fathers has no use for and a great fear of professional politicians. Our original elected officials were citizen statesmen. Men who served for love of the country but for very little money. They left their lives behind for a short time and served the nation as public servants. It cost them money to serve this country.

In order to do this, they had to be men of means. Most were wealthy land owners and men of commerce. The only fly in the ointment is that set us up for rule by an aristocratic minority. "We the People", became "We the Wealthy".

Well the "Common Man" needed his shot at running the country, so public service became lucrative enough for everybody to take a shot and this was born politicians.

Throughout the history of the country, politicans have been a venal, self centered, opportunistic and in general crooked bunch of folks, who used their power to gain personal wealth and power. This is nothing new, but go way back before the Civil War.

There is an old saying.. "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely". This is the story of American politics. Why else would a man (or woman) spend hundreds of millions of dollars to win an office for four years, that pays only $300,00 per year.

Politicans stay in power because they share some of the power and wealth with the crooked folks back home, and those crooked folks back home, pull the strings of local politics and the bigger crooks get reelected. The putrid small of rotton politcs extend all the way down to the lowest level. The labor unions support those who will keep the unions in power. It doesn't matter how this impacts American business. The teachers will support those who won't cut their salaries and mess with their party. It doesn't matter how this impacts American Education. We are not except..The gun owners will elect those who promises not to mess with their guns. The eco-nuts will vote for the "green" people. Big oil will vote for whoever promises to protect them. On and on it goes. Almost everybody is a single issue voter and we all vote "our issue" rather than for the best man or woman.

The corrupt political class could not stay in power without our consent. The crude and horrible truth is most Americans just don't care about anybody else and vote their own narrow self interest. In the words of Pogo Possum.. "We have met the enemy and it is us."

You ask the "why" question and the above is just a little historical snippit. The larger questions is why do human beings become corrupt and not serve the public interest, but use their public office to accumulate power and wealth? Why do human beings not give a #$^% about anybody else and vote their own narrow self interest. To answer that we will have to address the question of human moral frailty and the question of sin.

That is a theological question and it has a theological answer.

[mescalero1]

It is a moral question, I fear we are not up to the task.

[Old Ironsights]

The problem with this is them publishing the list in a paper read by relatively few people with no other notifications.

Yes, it's a National paper, so it meets the "legal" requirements, but if they were being honest/fair about publishing it where people might actually read it they would publish in the NYT National Edition or USA Today, not the WSJ.

[madman4570]

Thats one good reason to have a GREAT BIG" no HUGE" HEAVY SAFE.
Its worth every penny.
A couple years back,a guy I know had 7 or 8 of his guns in a locked
fancy wooden display case.Well three people broke into his place while he was on vacation and stole them.Police caught them two days later.
Two of thieves were over 18 and the other one was a minor.
They were drug addicts and because of other STILL PENDING issues with that minor he has NOT YET got his guns back.In fact 3 were damaged beyond repair.If/when he evers get them back those three that were ruined that were his Grandfathers old guns.He might receive $410 aprox.for them(old shotguns)He said because they were not registered to him he might never get some of them????
This happened in New York State not PA State????

[Old Time Hunter]

Either my state never has guns that are confiscated/siezed or they must keep them for themselves as I have never seen a publication by anyone in my state that lists them.

I think you're all making this up!

Besides, NYC isn't even in the USA, just ask them, they are bigger than that!