OT: Range Report: original Springfield 1888 rifle 45-70

[KirkD]

At lunch time today, I managed to squeeze in a quick trip to the range to try out three different loads. My rifle is an original Springfield 1888 made 118 years ago, but in fantastic shape. Here's a photo .....



The first load was a bit scary for me to try. I read about using cream of wheat filler in old cartridges, but I'd never tried it before. I loaded up just 5 cartridges with 30 grains of IMR 3031 plus 1/4 teaspoon (rounded) under a 500 grain SAECO RNPB boolit that I'd cast last fall. I'd loaded these 5 rounds up last fall, but was waiting to get up the courage to shoot them. Finally, I figured today's the day. I laid the rifle barrel across my shooting bag and took careful aim through the peep of the Buffington sight, making sure my arms were well back in case she blew, and I pulled the trigger. After three rounds, I went down to take a look. At 100 yards, the 3 shots made a nice little 11/16" group. This load looks like it has potential and gives a hefty 1,170 fps. Here's a photo of the target ...



For the next two loads, I only had 2 bullets and three bullets respectively, so I figured I'd use the remaining two cream of wheat loads to adjust my sights a little closer to centre.

The next load was 30 grains of IMR 4198 under a 340 grain FNPB bullet. A fellow had sent me three, but one had a bad casting flaw, so I only had two shots. I took aim and let 'er rip. Velocity was 1,416 fps and, man, was the point of impact ever different than the 500 grain boolits. The thumb tack at the top left corner of the target was obliterated, but both bullets went in within 1/4" of each other. A 2-shot group of 1/4" at 100 yards isn't all that bad.

The final load was 30 grains of IMR 4198 under a 405 grain FNPB boolit which gave 1,410 fps. I only had three of these, so I let 'er fly and then went down to take a look. a 3-shot group of 2 & 11/16" at 100 yards. Not bad. Here's a photo ....



As you may have guessed, that 500 grain cream of wheat load has my attention. I'll be loading up some more of that to try again. The 340 grain bullet also gave phenomenal accuracy, but since I don't have that mould, I won't be doing any more work with that one for the near future. I'd like to do some more work with the 405 grain bullet. I got a bunch of them to work with. Maybe a little cream of wheat ...?

[Old Savage]

Nice rifle - excellent work there Kirk.

[TedH]

Outstanding! That is a sweet old rifle.

[madman4570]

Nice gun there Kirk,

Awesome grouping especially from those 500 grainers. WoW!!

[Nath]

Outstanding A fine shot you are and well that old gun, amazing. You know how to pick them Kirk.

Nath.

[pete-driver]

I have a 1884 (1886) in layaway with about $150 left to go. I can hardly wait to get it. I hope it shoots as good as yours. I think I might try the BPCR loading. John

[Bear 45/70]

My 1884 "Trapdoor" made in the 2nd quarter of 1889 is a shooter. I mainly only use Black Powder in it because I like the people that shoot it to see what it was like for the soldiers back then. Yeah, I know it is a pain to clean but darn it is so cool to shoot with all the smoke. I have 3 loads, the original loading for the Trapdoor, a 500 grain bullet over 70 grains of BP, then the 405 grain bullet of 70 grains of BP and then the Carbine load with a 405 grain bullet of 55 grains of BP. I also shoot some of my Contender practice loads thru it, 28 grains of H-4198 under a 405 grain LFN bullet as a barrel cleaner, I have never used a filler and never had an ignition problem. Oh and never ever shoot jacketed bullets thru a "Trapdoor", they will ruin the bore. Oh and the best part is I traded a Bulgarian Makarov in 380 for it.

[Hobie]

My 1884 "Trapdoor" made in the 2nd quarter of 1889 is a shooter. I mainly only use Black Powder in it because I like the people that shoot it to see what it was like for the soldiers back then. Yeah, I know it is a pain to clean but darn it is so cool to shoot with all the smoke. I have 3 loads, the original loading for the Trapdoor, a 500 grain bullet over 70 grains of BP, then the 405 grain bullet of 70 grains of BP and then the Carbine load with a 405 grain bullet of 55 grains of BP. I also shoot some of my Contender practice loads thru it, 28 grains of H-4198 under a 405 grain LFN bullet as a barrel cleaner, I have never used a filler and never had an ignition problem. Oh and never ever shoot jacketed bullets thru a "Trapdoor", they will ruin the bore. Oh and the best part is I traded a Bulgarian Makarov in 380 for it.

You got a good deal on that rifle!

[KirkD]

Bear 45/70, where did you get that sling? I'd like to get one for my Springfield.

[Sixgun]

Kirk,
You and I sure have similar tastes. Thats nice! I just had to laugh when you said your first load has "potential" . I would have stopped right there.

Cream of wheat (to me) is nothing more than unneeded aggravation. My all time favorite 35 year old load for Trapdoors is 11 grains of Unique (loose in the case) behind a 385 Lyman RNPB, sized .460. This load is 1050 fps, easy on the gun, easy on your shoulder and will shoot with the best of 'em in ANY 45-70 . I forgot how many thousands of these I have let loose at things.--------------------Sixgun

[Malamute]

...And you have the cool ramrod/weinie cooker attachment!


Good shooting Kirk. Nice rifle.

[RIHMFIRE]

thats some mighty good shoot'n corn meal....outstanding group!
I had no idea....very interesting load to say the least...
and...very nice rifle...we need some close-up pics of the shooter!
Dont ya think so guys

[rjohns94]

I am really interested in your loads and follow on work with this rifle. That rifle has been on my WANT TO OWN list for a couple of decades. I feel one is coming in my future soon. Thanks for sharing. I personally like those 500 grain bullets. I have about 60 loaded and no rifle to use them in.

[Ben_Rumson]

TDs Rock!!.. +1 on Sixers Unique load.. Lucky me my TD came with the target grip attacment and an Ivory bead front sight insert... Got some decent groups with it.. nothing close as 11/16" Nice shooting Kirk.. Do I forsee more single shot rifles in your future?

Last time I saw a decent genuine TD sling/ Carry Strap the guy was selling them for $150.00.. Reproductions are available.

[pete-driver]

Turner Slings makes them. They look good. I'll be getting one soon.
http://turnersling.com/miva/merchant.mvc
M1887 Sling for the .45-70 Trapdoor Springfield and .30-40 Krag
Price: $46.95

[KirkD]

For you fellows who want a cheap but original nice Springfield, you might try bidding in the Rock Island Auction. They always have a few. I threw in a real low bid last year on this one and was surprised when I won it for about $600. I called first and asked about the bore in 2 or 3 of them. They said this one had an excellent bore, and they were right. There is a Rock Island Auction starting tomorrow or Saturday. It's probably too late to phone and inquire about the bore for this auction, but they have a good auction 2 or 3 times a year. I've gotten 3 guns from them and all were accurately described to me on the phone and in the write-up.

[Ysabel Kid]

...we need some close-up pics of the shooter!
Dont ya think so guys

+1 Especially the sights - would love to see exactly what they look like.

Kirk, that cream of wheat load worked fantastically! How did the rifle feel and sound when you shot it? Any differences compared to other loads you've fired of similiar velocity without using the cream of wheat filler? Any difference on clean-up?

Very interesting post - thanks for the range report!

[KirkD]

Malamute, come to think of it, that round bayonet would make an excellent stick for roasting weiners, or even making shish kabobs!

Ysabel Kid, sometime I'd like to take a photo of this old Springfield. it is hard, though. That barrel is really long. Those Buffington sights are first class. They are the best doggone sights I've ever used ..... even better than my Lyman receiver sight on my 30-30 .... way better. The adjustments are beautiful and precise.

I had my ear plugs in when I fired those cream of wheat loads, and I can't really say they sounded any different from any other similar load. I did notice a faint toasty smell after a few rounds, though. I can't say what the clean up difference would be, because I immediately put 5 other loads through it after the cream of wheat loads. I'm going to load up a bunch more for next weekend and try more of them out.

[pokey]

Nice rifle - excellent work there Kirk.

+ 1

[20cows]

WOW!!!!

That lady still knows how to dance.

[Old Savage]

Also sounds like you may have found your perfect accuracy technique.

[claybob86]

Fine rifle and fine shooting, Kirk! Thanks for a great post!
About the filler, does the amount you use fill the case and compress under the bullet? Guess I'm wondering about the powder and filler mixing during handling and transit.

[Old Time Hunter]

Excellent post as always Kirk! Love my TD's but since I have various configurations my loads are kind of vanilla. Smokeless I have settled on 29.5 grains of H4198 behind a hard cast 405 grain sized .459 that yields 1410 fps out of the rifle, 1325 fps out of the carbine, 1365 fps out of the student, and only 1275 fps out of the "short" carbine (the one on the top). Shooting the "bad" BP alternative (62.5 grains Pyrodex RS) with a 20-1 cast 405(drops at 435gr) Lee Hollow Base that is sized at .460" and a .030 veggie wad; yields 1440 fps out of my rifle, 1405fps out of the original carbines (22" barrel, must be the limit of efficiency), 1430 fps out of the "student", and only 1250 fps out of my "shortie".

[CowboyTutt]

I shot just such a rifle at the FoBD event I just attended in Hotchkiss. The Buffington sight was supposedly designed to be calibrated even for the curvature of the Earth. My friend Jim Williamson handed me his after some rough sighting in and I hit an animal steel target at 350 yards 3 times in a row with my first 3 shots. Very accurate rifles! Kurt, yours looks like and unusually good speciman and at a very inexpensive price. -Tutt

[okdee]

Hey KirkD,

That's a ramrod, ist it not? If it is,I have one that I shoot with 3031 powder, also. I cann't remember the grain count, though.

I have been using a 325 to 350 grain bullet, with decent results.

I use it occasionly in a shoot called the Cody/Dixon shoot, down here in Texas. This is an offshoot of Cowboy Action shooting where you only shoot rifles of the big bores, instead of the pistol caliber rifles normally shot. It is comprised of teams, usually each team has 4-6 single shot rifles and 4-6 leveraction rifles. Max of 6 rounds to be shot, on the rifles, per stage. The targets are usually around 85-140 yards for the rifles. It is a timed competition, so using a single shot rifle, one must have a technique down to shot and reload smoothly.

Just another reason to get a kick out of shooting wonderful old vintage rifle!

Cheers,
Oklahoma Dee

[KirkD]

About the filler, does the amount you use fill the case and compress under the bullet? Guess I'm wondering about the powder and filler mixing during handling and transit.

The cream of wheat is slightly compressed just enough to prevent movement and mixing.

Old Time Hunter, nice collection of TD's. Interesting load info too.

Okdee, the Model 1888 has a combination bayonet/ramrod. It is has two notches in the round rod, such that if it is pulled forward, it locks into place and can be used as a bayonet (it has a pointed tip for the purpose). It can also be completely removed and the other end used as a rod to clean the rifle, or knock out a stuck case. Here's a couple photos. The first is of the pointy end of the bayonet and the second shows it in the 'fixed' locked position.

[Modoc ED]

KirkD -

How much crimp, if any, do you use on that 500gr, cream of wheat/corn meal load that you got the 11/16" group with.

The reason I'm asking is that we have an old geezer (in his late 80s) at our range who shoots 500gr rounds in his Browning BPCR rifle and he does not crimp his rounds. We have a gong at 800-yards and he makes it ring time-after-time-after-time.

[Bear 45/70]

Bear 45/70, where did you get that sling? I'd like to get one for my Springfield.

I had never looked until you asked. The sling came with the rifle. It is marked HUNTER inside a powder horn. A quick search and I found;

http://www.huntercompany.com/slings.html

Mine is a 1" wide but if I could get one as worn as this one, is I would go with a 1 1/4" one.

[Old Savage]

YOu know fellas - it seems to me those rifles are very much like this one.

[Old Time Hunter]

Old Savage, work'n on a M71/84 as we speak! Going to need alot of work, but it will be all original without any replicated parts. That is one fine look'n specimen you have there.

[Bear 45/70]

Old Savage, work'n on a M71/84 as we speak! Going to need alot of work, but it will be all original without any replicated parts. That is one fine look'n specimen you have there.

I too have a Mauser 1871/84, which is in the process of being converted to 45/70 Government.

[KirkD]

KirkD -

How much crimp, if any, do you use on that 500gr, cream of wheat/corn meal load that you got the 11/16" group with.

I used a Lee Factory Crimp on those loads. The crimp was in the foremost lube groove and not very severe.

[Bear 45/70]

[quote="Old Time Hunter"]Excellent post as always Kirk! Love my TD's but since I have various configurations my loads are kind of vanilla. Smokeless I have settled on 29.5 grains of H4198 behind a hard cast 405 grain sized .459 that yields 1410 fps out of the rifle, 1325 fps out of the carbine, 1365 fps out of the student, and only 1275 fps out of the "short" carbine (the one on the top). Shooting the "bad" BP alternative (62.5 grains Pyrodex RS) with a 20-1 cast 405(drops at 435gr) Lee Hollow Base that is sized at .460" and a .030 veggie wad; yields 1440 fps out of my rifle, 1405fps out of the original carbines (22" barrel, must be the limit of efficiency), 1430 fps out of the "student", and only 1250 fps out of my "shortie".



I always wanted a carbine, but I kept putting it off and suddenly all Trapdoors had quadrupled in price and I couldn't even find one I would own that I could afford. Old Time Hunter, you wouldn't want to send me one of yours to take care of it for you, would you?

[Old Savage]

OTH, that is Cowboytutt and his "Old 3120" - really a nice example but I did have pleasure of shooting it.

[madman4570]

Old Savage,
That is, one heck of a fine looking speciman there!!!
"and the rifle isnt half bad either"
See ya!

[Old Savage]

Madman - you are certainly right - Cowboytutt is a specimen

[okdee]

KirkD, Yup, jus like my ramrod! Mine was born in 1892, according to the serial number.