OK, Levergun topic post ammo question, On Topic too

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:37 pm

I have TWO (2) lever actions chambered for the .45 Colt. One Marlin, one Winchester.
Now, after reading 86er's posts about shooting bears where he recommends 300 gr bullets in the .45 Colt I'm curious about powders.

I know of many sources for bullets, and loads, but there is just too many powders to choose from.

So help me narrow it down to a couple two or three.

I'd like to stay away from the ball powders "IF POSSIBLE". I know that 296 and H110 and Lil'gun are the most suggested, but they are also fickle sometimes and I want to avoid that.

Plus I'd like to stay with IMR, Alliant and Hodgdons, rather than some foreign name like the VV I can't pronounce let alone spell.

So am I being too picky? Any ideas? I've only used 2400 and some IMR 4227 for heavy .45 Colt loads so far. I think the 2400 is a wee bit fast for this kind of load.

Joe

Comal Forge · Post by **Comal Forge** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:44 pm

Try Blue Dot - I use it in several calibers of heavy handgun loads.

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:46 pm

2400....

Marlin .35 · Post by **Marlin .35** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:21 am

I would go with either 2400 or RE#7, rifle powder!!! Art

Wrangler John · Post by **Wrangler John** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 6:33 am

Here's my load for a revolver (Colt Anaconda 6" Barrel):

National Bullet Co. 300 grain Copper Plated Cast bullet.
19.3 grains Winchester 296
Winchester WLP Primer
Starline Case
Heavy roll-crimp

Average Velocity (10 Shots) 1,109 fps
Muzzle Energy 819 ft lbs
100 Yard Energy 666
Group 1.625" @ 25 yards off sandbags

Otherwise try H4227 (IMR4227) or ACC 1680 both will work in a rifle and give good accuracy without as great a chance of high pressure. I have had some very accurate loads in the .45 Colt and .480 Ruger with both powders, however they don't develop as high velocity in a revolver as W-296.

gon2shoot · Post by **gon2shoot** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:09 am

JMiller, I have used Lil gun with pretty good results, but it's like a new bride (needs lots of attention).

I find 2400 to be pretty versatile and forgiving, thats what shoot most.

hartman · Post by **hartman** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 7:24 am

JMiller,

I assume you are trying to stay away from ball powder because of the open space left over in the case? If you are looking for bulky try IMR-SR-4759, it lives right next to 2400 on my burn rate chart and is really bulky. It also works well in reduced rifle loads as well, 30wcf, 45-70, 7mm mag etc. I think you would be happier with 296 or h110.

Hartman

Malamute · Post by **Malamute** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:26 am

I agree, you would be happy with 296 or H-110. The only fickle part that I know of is, only use them in max or near max loads. They don't reduce well. They are fine in that context.

I have loaded some heavy bullet loads in 44 mag and 45 Colt with 2400, and it made some good loads, but not quite to the same velocity level that H-110 will. If you don't need top end loads, then 2400 is fine.

20cows · Post by **20cows** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:51 am

If I remember a talk with a friend looong ago, there may be some ambiant temperature issues with 296 (extreme cold vs purty dern hot). I don't remember how it came out.

Post by **Hobie** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:27 am

I don't think that H110/W296 is fickle. I load 23 gr. under the 300 gr. bullets in my Rossi .45 Colt. This isn't has heavy as I might go but gives .45-90 BP velocities of about 1600 fps. That's good enough to get 'er done.

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:39 am

I use basically the same load as Hobie for my 94S w/ 300 Horn. XTP. 5 shots at 50 yrds. will be touching.

Havn't shot any game yet but I sure wouldn't want to be on the other side of it.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:07 am

Marlin .35,
I've read somewhere that Paco uses RE7 in heavy handgun loads. Might be something to try.

Wrangler John,
That load looks interesting. And easy to duplicate too. I wonder how much velocity increase you'd get with a 16" and 20" rifle barrels?

hartman,
Not really. Air space between the powder and bullets has never concerned me. You gotta realize that I shoot gobs of 231, PB, Unique, and other fast burning powders that don't fill much of the case at all.
However I've had several folks mentions the SR-4759 for other loads, so it's one to consider.

Malamute,
Yes the reduced load / squib thing. That's what I was thinking about.

Hobie, 2ndovc,
We've gotten in the habit of saying H110/296 as if they were one in the same. They probably are, 'but' when you go to the gun store to buy powder which do you reach for?

What primers are you using? I've read many who swear you need mag primers with 296, yet Winchester does not make a dedicated LP mag primer.
Only their WLP "For Standard and Magnum" primers.

I'm thinking of cast bullets rather than jacketed, the only 300 gr bullets I've used was some Bull-X TCFP types from several years ago. The shot fine but the meplat was pretty small on them.

Joe

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:34 am

Joe,

I use Win. Standard large pistol primers. Also just out of habbit I buy the Win. 296. Just so I don't get confused. I've had good luck with the 296. Tried 2400 several times but don't get as good results.

Can't wait to try that load on something moving!
I was going to take that rifle on 86er's cull shoot but the mag. screw stripped and didn't get it replaced in time.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 10:49 am

Can't wait to try that load on something moving!
I was going to take that rifle on 86er's cull shoot but the mag. screw stripped and didn't get it replaced in time.

Oh what a pain in the butt. The mag plug screw broke on my Rossi. But before it broke it peened the hole in the bottom of the barrel out so bad it would torn through, had it not broke.

Joe

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:22 am

Joe if you have any of the 5744 that you didn't care for left, give some of it a whirl with the 300 grainers. 4198 works fair as well.
But from what I can tell I doubt there's a critter walking that could tell the difference between a 255 Keith and a 300 gr latest greastest design.
25 grs of 4198 gives around 1250 with a 255 out of my trapper,at great accuracy.
I sometimes use large rifle primers in the colt case ,when loading for the rifle, but you'll need to make sure the pockets are deep enough to properly seat those.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 11:38 am

J Miller wrote:...I'd like to stay away from the ball powders "IF POSSIBLE". I know that 296 and H110 and Lil'gun are the most suggested, but they are also fickle sometimes and I want to avoid that.
...

I have never known W296/H110 to be fickle... but then I always used them by the principle of "fill the case and compress..."

My 110/296 loads were never less than 30gr in a .454 case behind a 350gr boolit.

The "best" load I ever shot was 31gr, and that was the load I trusted my life to in Brown Bear country.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 1:59 pm

Maybe I should clarify my desire to stay away from ball powders. In rifles they are a non issue, however in revolvers I've had bad experience with flame cut top straps and eroded forcing cones from ball powders. So I was trying to stay away from ball powders to eliminate that problem and the problem of segregating loads for the rifle and revolvers.

Joe

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:08 pm

J Miller wrote:Maybe I should clarify my desire to stay away from ball powders. In rifles they are a non issue, however in revolvers I've had bad experience with flame cut top straps and eroded forcing cones from ball powders. So I was trying to stay away from ball powders to eliminate that problem and the problem of segregating loads for the rifle and revolvers.

Joe

Makes sense... except that my .454 loads were for my 6" Casull...

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:27 pm

O.I.,

The only .454 Casull I've fired was actually shot from a S&W 460V. Other than it's a .45 Colt on a major dose of steroids I don't know too much about it.
Was your .454 stainless or blued. Rifle or revolver. Animal or vegetable ....
'er wait, that's not right is it????

Joe

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:36 pm

J Miller wrote:O.I.,

The only .454 Casull I've fired was actually shot from a S&W 460V. Other than it's a .45 Colt on a major dose of steroids I don't know too much about it.
Was your .454 stainless or blued. Rifle or revolver. Animal or vegetable ....
'er wait, that's not right is it????

Joe

Er... Sorry.

It was a 6" Freedom Arms Revolver. They are all stainless.

I shot .454s, .45Colts and .45acp (extra cylinder) out of it.

My 350gr cast load hit 1600 odd FPS out of it. Fugly... but accuracte and pure (untested) bear death. I could put all 5 into a paper plate at 15yds in just over 5 seconds from the draw.

I loved that gun.

OK, Levergun topic post ammo question, On Topic too

OK, Levergun topic post ammo question, On Topic too

Re: OK, Levergun topic post ammo question, On Topic too