John Wayne

Pop Watts · Post by **Pop Watts** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:09 am

Found this old book at a vintage shop on the weekend.
Published in 1953 titled "The Western Film Annual"
Has some great old pics from Westerns I have never heard of.
Thought some may like the pic of John Wayne with some of his personal collection of firearms.

Is that a Marlin 39 I see there?

If it was good enough for The Duke......

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:18 am

Looking at the Duke's eyes, he may have been enjoying a few adult beverages before the picture was taken!

major · Post by **major** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:49 am

what a great man,was due to him the lever gun lives in a lot of peoples hearts today:D

rangerider7 · Post by **rangerider7** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:27 am

I wonder what "The Duke" would say about the doings of the government today, if he were here?

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:44 am

rangerider7 wrote:I wonder what "The Duke" would say about the doings of the government today, if he were here?

HE IS THE MAN!...A TRUE AMERICAN...
and he would be greatly disappointed....
probably rolled over in his grave.....
I personally cant watch tv, unless its sports
or one of the 3 outdoor stations we get...or maybe an
old movie once in a while....
Its seems to me ....all the male actors nowadays are
all a bunch of winny panzies..
I wont go to the movies either...

don Tomás · Post by **don Tomás** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:26 pm

I think he's about 12 in this photo...
Tom

Bear 45/70 · Post by **Bear 45/70** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:28 pm

Ysabel Kid wrote:Looking at the Duke's eyes, he may have been enjoying a few adult beverages before the picture was taken!

That picture is totally retouched.

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:00 pm

I just wish he would have done like Clark Gable, big time ball players and others and gone off to fight in the war.. Sort of turned my stomach when I learned he didn't man up and serve after seeing him in so many war movies.... I know too he liked GIs Marines and Sailors and would go out of his way to help them

JustaJeepGuy · Post by **JustaJeepGuy** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:37 pm

Ben_Rumson wrote:I just wish he would have done like Clark Gable, big time ball players and others and gone off to fight in the war.. Sort of turned my stomach when I learned he didn't man up and serve after seeing him in so many war movies.... I know too he liked GIs Marines and Sailors and would go out of his way to help them

I believe he had a medical condition that made him 4F. Also, he was kind of old. That said, historian William Manchester (a WWII combat Marine) has mentioned that when Wayne went out to the Pacific with USO shows, he was roundly booed by combat Marines when he showed up on stage "in costume".

gundownunder · Post by **gundownunder** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 4:46 pm

I seem to recall hearing that he could do more by supporting the war effort from home, than by going and getting himself shot at.
Seems right to me, as John Wayne speaking up for the war effort would do more for moral and sell more bonds than John Wayne in the obituaries would have.

and yes, he certainly would have been the reason a lot of us are levergunners today.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:03 pm

All I know is that to me he is "The Man".

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:32 pm

I seem to recall hearing that he could do more by supporting the war effort from home, than by going and getting himself shot at.

And it didn't hurt his career either... I think as notable as JW was he could have pulled a few strings and got in uniform if he really wanted to..Just something that sticks in my craw is all..
As a GI my morale would have been boosted knowing a guy like Clark Gable put his money where his mouth was and risked it all to fly a few B-17 missions over German held ground...He didn't have to do it.. but he did.

Shooter973 · Post by **Shooter973** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:34 pm

John Wayne is the ONLY man that I respect, calling himself Duke.
There is a gun writer that I won't bother naming that calls himself "Duke" and it bothers me that he does. He has done NOTHING to deserve this nick-name...

He'll never measure up to John Wayne in my estimation!!!

don Tomás · Post by **don Tomás** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 5:36 pm

Was John Wayne a draft dodger? (Link)
July 10, 1998
Cecil Adams, The Straight Dope

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:03 pm

Well, I think he was worth more to America, due to the movies he made during the war, then anything he could have done while serving in the armed forces, at that time.

And I though I read somewhere that he was asked by the government to make some of those movies at that time.

Otto · Post by **Otto** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:13 pm

[sarcasm] Yeah, I have much more respect for someone who actually wore a uniform, like Murtha or Kerry, than a draft-dodger like John Wayne.[/sarcasm]

By the way, John Wayne ended up acting after he was rejected by Annapolis, due to a knee problem.

bcp · Post by **bcp** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:19 pm

Would he be as highly thought of if everything was the same but he had specialized in playing villains?

How much is the man being confused with the characters he played on screen?

Bruce

Bear 45/70 · Post by **Bear 45/70** » Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:22 pm

He was the character on the screen. During Viet Nam he waded in to a bunch of antis who were gonna burn a flag and took it away from them and he did it alone.

the telegraphist · Post by **the telegraphist** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:28 am

John Wayne a great entertainer. An actor and so forth. Anyone ever heard of Audie Murphy?

Otto · Post by **Otto** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:58 am

the telegraphist wrote:John Wayne a great entertainer. An actor and so forth. Anyone ever heard of Audie Murphy?

I never cared for his movies, although some of the later ones were pretty good. He was hilarious as Donkey in Shrek.

SteveR · Post by **SteveR** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:14 am

Otto wrote:
the telegraphist wrote:John Wayne a great entertainer. An actor and so forth. Anyone ever heard of Audie Murphy?
I never cared for his movies, although some of the later ones were pretty good. He was hilarious as Donkey in Shrek.

WTF? Shrek?? Medal of Honor winner & most decorated WWII US soldier Audie Murphy confused with Eddie Murphy!! I have heard it all now

Unbelievable.

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:25 am

Otto wrote:
the telegraphist wrote:John Wayne a great entertainer. An actor and so forth. Anyone ever heard of Audie Murphy?
I never cared for his movies, although some of the later ones were pretty good. He was hilarious as Donkey in Shrek.

Black comedian Eddie Murphy was the donkey in Shrek. Audie Murphy had been dead a long time before those movies were made. k

Joe

Otto · Post by **Otto** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:26 am

SteveR wrote:
Otto wrote:
the telegraphist wrote:John Wayne a great entertainer. An actor and so forth. Anyone ever heard of Audie Murphy?
I never cared for his movies, although some of the later ones were pretty good. He was hilarious as Donkey in Shrek.
WTF? Shrek?? Medal of Honor winner & most decorated WWII US soldier Audie Murphy confused with Eddie Murphy!! I have heard it all now

Unbelievable.

How many people under the age of 40 (or 50, really) do you think have ever heard of Audie Murphy, or have any idea who he was?

J Miller wrote:Black comedian Eddie Murphy was the donkey in Shrek. Audie Murphy had been dead a long time before those movies were made. k

Joe

I know who they are. You guys need to recalibrate your sarcasmatrons.

Post by **Hobie** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:28 am

Too few know about Audie Murphy. All should.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:52 am

What matters is that Wayne was a Patriot. He did his part and then some. Even going back to the Revolution, you had people doing as much behind the scenes for Freedom as a guy pulling a trigger. Both types are Patriots...Soldiers and those who act to support during their Country during a time of War. You need both to win. Modern Hollywood however......

Gun Smith · Post by **Gun Smith** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:06 am

Here's the facts.
John Wayne was 34 in 1942. Too old for the early draft. The cut off age date for the first draft was 18 to 35, and in 1945 it went to 18 to 45. He wanted to enlist in the military as many of his friends did. Here's what happened. John Wayne had just signed a very large contract with Republic Pictures that also gave him a percentage of the profits from each picture. He thought he was the first star to get that percentage of film profit in Hollywood. His films probably kept Republic Pictures in business.
Wayne still wanted to enlist though. But Herbert Yates, the head of Republic, told him he should have thought about that (enlisting) before signing the new contract. He told Wayne he would sue him for every dime he had and would ever make in his lifetime if he broke the contract. Wayne knew Yates was right and had him cold, and therefore never enlisted.
He did become a "super patriot", as some have said, for the rest of his life as he atoned for staying at home. He made many WW2 war films to honor the men overseas. A few were "Flying Tigers", Reunion in France", "the Fighting Seabees", "Back to Bataan", "They Were Expendable", and others. He also toured with the USO, and sold War Bonds.
Some may say he didn't do the right thing, but I believe he was a trapped in a situation that would have harmed his family financially and possibly ruined his chances at a future career in Hollywood after the War.

don Tomás · Post by **don Tomás** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:27 pm

Hobie wrote:Too few know about Audie Murphy. All should.

Amen, Hobie. For the "yutes", if you ever want to check out a great WWII movie, rent To Hell And Back. Audie Murphy plays himself in the movie. Here's a few of his accomplishments (not bad for a guy that was rejected by the Marines and paratroopers for being too short (5'5") and is now buried at Arlington):

Service: 1942–1945 (US Army), 1950–1966 (Texas National Guard)
Rank First Lieutenant (USA), Major (TNG)

Unit 15th Infantry Regiment, 3rd Infantry Division (USA), 36th Infantry Division (TNG)
Battles/wars: World War II: Sicily (July 1943), Salerno, Anzio, Rome, France: Operation Anvil-Dragoon (Aug. 1944), Holtzwihr (Jan. 1945)

Awards (Not complete):
Medal of Honor
Distinguished Service Cross
Silver Star (2)
Legion of Merit
Bronze Star (2)
Purple Heart (3)
French Legion of Honor[1]
French Croix de Guerre (+ Palm)[1]
Belgian Croix de Guerre 1940 Palm[1]

(Sorry, Pop Watts. Crack-y, talk about hijacking a thread...)

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:40 pm

John Wayne was a better than average actor, that created a lasting screen persona. His films were entertaining and made lots of money. The characters he played made a big impression on several generations of young boys who grew up to be men. He liked Latin women, played poker, drank whisky and liked to sail. None of those are negatives in my opinion.

The fact that he didn't serve in the military bothers me not one whit. What is a whit?

He is putting together a Browning A-5 and another is laying on the couch. Proped up on the couch is a Remington 12 or 121 and a Marlin 39. There is some sort of rifle with a Unertl target scope on it, laying on the table. My best guess it is a Matini SS of some sort, but that is a guess based on filmsy evidence.

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:48 pm

Audie Murphy was a troubled youth who became a true American Hero in WWII. After the war, he became a passable actor, made some good movies and some bad movies. He was deeply emotionaly wounded by WWII and he abused booze badly. He was and is a great American, but also a tragic and sad figure. He died way to early. I would have liked to have him find some peace latter in life and die less conflicted.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:01 pm

My uncle, Ernie McVicker, enlisted in the US Army, received a Bronze Star for action in the Bulge and stayed on as an ocupying force until late in 1945. He didn't get one cent more than the Army paid him and didn't make a dime off his experience. He lost most of his hair and would never talk of his experience, prolly due to the horror of it all. I respect him and the values he left with me a bunch more than John or Audie ever personally did for me. I suspect that we all have such a hero in our pasts..... Be careful of your hero worship, Gents, it's misleading.

Bear 45/70 · Post by **Bear 45/70** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:09 pm

BlaineG wrote:My uncle, Ernie McVicker, enlisted in the US Army, received a Bronze Star for action in the Bulge and stayed on as an ocupying force until late in 1945. He didn't get one cent more than the Army paid him and didn't make a dime off his experience. He lost most of his hair and would never talk of his experience, prolly due to the horror of it all. I respect him and the values he left with me a bunch more than John or Audie ever personally did for me. I suspect that we all have such a hero in our pasts..... Be careful of your hero worship, Gents, it's misleading.

Yeah, I know. You let me down regularly.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:34 pm

Otto wrote:
the telegraphist wrote:John Wayne a great entertainer. An actor and so forth. Anyone ever heard of Audie Murphy?
I never cared for his movies, although some of the later ones were pretty good. He was hilarious as Donkey in Shrek.

the telegraphist · Post by **the telegraphist** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:37 am

With ya all the way Hobie. People are losing touch with the real heroes of the world. Those that gave and didnt take.

ByronG · Post by **ByronG** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:48 am

http://rockfordrascal.blogspot.com/2007 ... wayne.html

Today's 100th anniversary of the birth of John Wayne, perhaps the biggest movie star of all time and one of my favorites when I was growing up, is an opportune occasion to examine his peculiar status as a conservative political icon.

I say "peculiar" because the Duke, as a symbol of manhood, patriotism and American virtues, was all artifice. He wasn't a cowboy. He wasn't a war hero. None of the words or actions for which he is best remembered were his own. They were the products of writers and directors, special camera angles and lighting and theme music. It was all Hollywood. None of it was reality.

This isn't to say Wayne had no talent as an actor. He did (although it was slow to develop during his career in "A" movies after a decade of working in "B" westerns). But his only Oscar came late in his career for his performance in "True Grit," which bordered on self-parody.

The off-screen John Wayne is not the one so many Americans remember with such great fondness, if they're aware of the real man at all. His off-screen utterances almost never made headlines or amounted to anything especially interesting. His personal life was somewhat dysfunctional. It included three marriages, lots of womanizing and adultery and his insistence that a pregnant Pilar Palette, who would become his third wife, get an abortion because he was not yet divorced from his second wife.

Even Wayne's big-selling, spoken-word recording of the poem "America: Why I Love Her," which was released in 1973, was, in several ways, artificial. The words weren't his. They were written by John Mitchum. And Duke's voice was technically processed to make it sound better. Moreover, the poem was almost totally devoid of tribute to American principles or history. Instead, it was mostly an ode to nature: ("Have you seen a Kansas sunset? Or an Arizona rain? Have you drifted on a bayou Down Louisiana way? Have you watched a cold fog drifting over San Francisco Bay?")

Still, the recording was a hit because, by then, Wayne had become an established symbol of patriotism, heroism and true manhood. A profession by him of love for his country -- or its geographic wonders, anyway -- was bound to be popular.

He's still a symbol of bravery and patriotism, still widely hailed as the embodiment of American virtue. But why? The question is especially perplexing in light of certain uncomfortable truths about him that go well beyond the fact that the only military action he saw during World War II was make-believe stuff on the silver screen. The cold reality is that he studiously avoided military service. He decided that his career was a higher priority. It was a decision that would haunt him the rest of his life and would damage his relationships with some of his friends, most notably his principal mentor, film director John Ford.

Biographer Garry Wills tells the story in his book "John Wayne's America: The Politics of Celebrity":

There was tremendous pressure, in public and in private, for Wayne to join them [other actors of his age who served in World War II]. But if he did, his opportunity [to become a truly big film star] might slip away forever...Wayne was prepared to do anything to avoid such a fate. He wrote tortuous excuses to John Ford, who had rushed into military service. He had his studio contrive ever-new exemptions for him... As he told the daughter of his friend and fellow actor, Paul Fix: "I better go do some touring [of military bases]--I feel the draft breathing down my neck."...

Wayne's fans have tried to make excuses for his absenteeism from the war. They even bring up the mythical "football injury" that supposedly cost him a scholarship 14 years before the war...They point out that he was 34 in 1941, still married to his first wife, with whom he had four small children -- enough to get an exemption in the war's early years. But other stars were as old or older, and some of them had children. Clark Gable was 41 when he entered the service, Tyrone Power 40, Henry Fonda and Robert Montgomery 37, Jimmy Stewart 33, Ronald Reagan 32...

[Wayne's] excuses were varied and contradictory. He wrote to Ford that he was trying to fill out the proper forms to enter the military, but he had no typewriter on location; that he left forms with [friend and fellow actor] Ward Bond, who couldn't fill them out; or that his wife, from whom he was separated, would not let him get essential documents he had left at home. In short, the dog ate his homework.

To others he claimed that Herb Yates, the head of Republic, threatened that the studio would "sue you for every penny you hope to make in the future" if he walked away from his contract. But no studio took action against the actors, directors, and cameramen, all under contract, who went to war...

In later years, Wayne had a new excuse. He told Ford's grandson, Dan, that he would have been only a private in the military (an absurd supposition), so he could have more influence through the war films he did as a star...But Wayne's identification with World War II came mainly from movies made after the war...Wayne was in none of these films that made a difference to the war effort...He was making it clear that if single-minded careerism would get him there, he was bound to make it. This cost him the chance to serve his country at its time of greatest unity against worldwide foes. Some in Hollywood never forgave Wayne for that. Part of John Ford never forgave him...This is a man who called on other generations to sacrifice their lives, and called them 'soft' if they refused...

Though Wayne's personal character came to approximate the roles he played on-screen, they could never merge in this area. There was nothing in his actual life to resemble the blank bullets he shot at fellow actors in feigned combat. He would forever be the warless "war hero."

Wills also tells of the time that John Ford's wife, Mary, wrote of Wayne to her husband: "It’s a darn shame that with a war going on he has to think about his lousy stinking tail."

Historian William Manchester, in a 1987 article in The New York Times Magazine, recalled an encounter with Duke during World War II:

After my evacuation from Okinawa, I had the enormous pleasure of seeing Wayne humiliated in person at Aiea Heights Naval Hospital in Hawaii. Only the most gravely wounded, the litter cases, were sent there.... Each evening Navy corpsmen would carry litters down to the hospital theater so the men could watch a movie. One night they had a surprise for us. Before the film the curtains parted and out stepped John Wayne, wearing a cowboy outfit...He grinned his aw-shucks grin, passed a hand over his face and said, ‘Hi ya, guys!' He was greeted by a stony silence. Then somebody booed. Suddenly everyone was booing. This man was a symbol of the fake machismo we had come to hate, and we weren't going to listen to him. He tried and tried to make himself heard, but we drowned him out, and eventually he quit and left.

But that was years before Duke played the role of Sgt. Stryker in "Sands of Iwo Jima," which cemented his image as a war hero.

And now, nearly 58 years after that film was made and 28 years after Wayne's death, there is still cause to wonder why this fake war hero is hailed to this day as a model of Americanism

Pop Watts · Post by **Pop Watts** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:31 am

Well all my US mates, all I did was post a very average pic of John Wayne and a couple of his guns.
Who would have thought it would end up here.
The punch line of Audie Murphy doing the Donkey in Shrek has had me laughing for half an hour.
A few years ago I drove through some of the WWII battle grounds in France, some of which Audie Murphy served at, and I don't mind telling you that it made me cry when I walked through some of the US and Allied cemetarys there. When you look at some of the beaches those boys were dropped onto and country they fought for foot by foot it is a wonder that anyone survived.
Met a Canadian over there who was dropped off on Omaha Beach, it took him nine months to fight his way to Belgium.
War is HELL.
Audie Murphy is a F#*@ing hero.
John Wayne is a legend.
You boys can decide on the rest.
Pop.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:11 am

Thank you Pop Watts. Great post....keep em coming!

Otto · Post by **Otto** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:45 am

ByronG wrote:http://rockfordrascal.blogspot.com/2007 ... wayne.html
<snip>

I would need corroboration on some of those assertions, and I think it's worth pointing out that the blog referenced is pretty left-leaning.

Neither of my grandfathers served in the military, and were granted a variety of exemptions. They were still good men, and they both supported the war effort in their own ways.

I have met alot of people in uniform whom I would never let in my front door. Military service is not, by any stretch, the only gauge I use to measure character. I have more issues with John Wayne's excessive drinking, and his multiple marriages, than his lack of military service. I don't deify him, but I see no reason to villify him either. He is still my favorite actor, although Randolph Scott has gained alot of ground lately. By the way, he DID serve, in The Great War.

Ronald Reagan did enlisted in the Army, but was exempted from overseas service, "because of his eyesight." He never saw any action. He still managed to become one of the, if not THE, greatest President in American history. By the way, John Wayne was one of Reagan's few close friends.

Gaucho Gringo · Post by **Gaucho Gringo** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:40 pm

My dad joined the Marine Corp Dec 8, 1941. He was in the first wave to the Solomon Islands, spending two years there. When I was kid watching John Wayne movies on TV he said he had met him several times. The way he said it was the Duke would frequent bars where servicemen were and buy rounds of drinks and talk to them. I can not think of a more honest and down to earth way to help boost the morale of these young servicemen, many who did not come back. John Wayne has always been #1 in my book.

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 3:05 pm

John Wayne Lived and Died and paid taxes.He worked at His craft for near 50 years. If He could speak today I have no doubt He would admit He made mistakes in His Life......After all He was just a Man. but I think He tried to atone for them as He could. maybe He was able to do more for the cause by not serving in the Military.
I have a family member who was a "War Hero" in Viet Nam, and I believe He was screwed out of a Medal of Honor because He wouldn't Kiss ***. He has had a terrible time liveing with all that happened in "Nam", and the price He paid is the last 39 years of life trying to escape "Nam"......His life Has been a liveing Hell. time served trying to forget what happened when He was 21 years old............ The movie "First Blood" is what comes to mind. God Bless All The Veterans.

Daveboone · Post by **Daveboone** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 4:56 pm

John Wayne was 4f due to numerous football injuries to his knees. He tried to enlist. Audie Murphy was turned away initially because he was underweight. He went on to become the most decorated American GI in WW2. Only after the war did he become an actor: I think his first role was playing himself in "To Hell and Back".

BUCKNIFE · Post by **BUCKNIFE** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 5:09 pm

WHY ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT JW AS A DRAFT DODGER. SOME OF YOU PROBABLY VOTED FOR ONE AS A SO CALLED PRESIDENT. THEN VOTED FOR OBAMY!!!

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 5:19 pm

The Lord makes us all for different purposes, which is why we are all different. My Dad's Father was 39 and a Farmer/Farm machinery geek when WWII broke out. He was an absolute whiz at what he did, and he was told to stay home and run his cotton combines as cotton was in high demand. His son..my Dad, went on to honorable service in Vietnam. My other Grandfather worked painting B-25's and P-51's at North American Aircraft in Long Beach, CA during the War...he was 34. John Wayne was doing exactly what they were doing...supporting the War, even if he wasn't pulling the trigger on a Garand. They were doing what God had gifted them at. None of us, BTW, could afford to have someone go through our lives with a fine tooth comb. We would all turn out as jerks if the total truth be known, wouldn't we? I am very thankful for Grace!

winchester1886 · Post by **winchester1886** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:56 pm

The man behind the man behind the gun. My dad saw him in New Guinea in the war when they were both on tour of duty, said he was a big dope probably Aussie lingo for he was a good bloke, but I know he never missed a J W western when they came on tele.We have established he didn't go to the war for what ever reason, but lets just accept him for what he was the Greatest Movie Star of all time I didn't say the best just the Greatest, and a pretty good all-round guy, he's been dead for thirty years this year and we are still all talking about him so must have had something going for him.