FINAL RESULTS - 464 Mossberg - it can shoot!

[handyrandyrc]

Load development day! 30-30 is a new round for me, and this Mossberg 464 is a new rifle, so I have some work to do. However, this kind of work is certainly fun.

It was a gorgeous morning here in Southeast Idaho. The sun was up, temperature a balmy 15 degrees F, 30.52 in. barometric pressure, 62% humidity, elevation 4865 feet. No perceptible wind whatsoever. Today, I placed the targets at 50 yards. Bullet chosen was Ranch Dog's 175 grain 30-30 made of wheel weights, gas-checked, and lightly tumbled, then dip-lubed with Lee Liquid Alox. Final step, the boolit got pushed through a .311" Lee sizing die. I shot 6 fouler rounds: each made up with 30 grains Hodgdon BL-C(2). OAL 2.485". The foulers were to get me on target and make sight adjustments, as I had not yet fired the 464 at 50 yards. I made some windage adjustment to the rear sight, shooting once between each change, until I called things 'set'.

I then cleaned the barrel of any powder/lube fouling, ran a couple of dry patches, and started my testing. I had 7 series of 5 rounds each to test. I also made a fouler round for each series, as I would be cleaning the barrel between series. The fouler round was made up of the 30-grain load. The process would be to shoot the 30-grain fouler round at a control target, then the 5 test load rounds at their own target. About 15-20 seconds time passed between shots. After the series, clean barrel, walk down to check and mark results, lather-rinse-repeat.

25-36 grains of BL-C(2) were tested, in 1 grain increments. That gave me 11 points in my data set to work with. All charges were trickled to weight and were all within 1/10th of a grain. All bullets were weighed after lube and gas check. Each were selected to weigh within 1 grain of each other, I picked 175.x grains. All prepared cases were also weighed to within 1 grain of each other, to try and keep external variables to a minimum. Bullets were seated to 2.485" OAL, the length I found best for this Mossberg (just barely kisses the rifling), and finally crimped with a Lee factory crimp die. Remington 9 1/2 standard large rifle primers were used.

* UPDATED * : 50 yard distance -- NOW WITH 25-36 grains inclusive

25 gr. = 2.2" 3 holes, 5.0" furthest 2 holes
26 gr. = 1.2" 3 holes, 5.5" furthest 2 holes
27 gr. = 3.1" 3 holes, 4.0" furthest 2 holes
28 gr. = 1.8" 3 holes, 3.5" furthest 2 holes
29 gr. = 1.5" 3 holes, 3.0" furthest 2 holes
30 gr. = .96" 3 holes, 4.3" furthest 2 holes
31 gr. = 1.8" 3 holes, 3.0" furthest 2 holes
32 gr. = 2.2" 3 holes, 3.7" furthest 2 holes
33 gr. = 1.2" 3 holes, 4.1" furthest 2 holes
34 gr. = 3.6" 3 holes, 5.8" furthest 2 holes
35 gr. = 2.4" 3 holes, 4.5" furthest 2 holes
36 gr. = 2.8" 3 holes, 5.0" furthest 2 holes

* UPDATE * Looks like as I lowered the charge weight below 30 grains, it got worse again. Groups opened up the lower the charge weight became. Statistically, I don't know about my freak results in a couple of places! There does seem to be a sort of trend here, starting with larger groups at 25 grains. As I moved up the scale, it seemed groups started becoming smaller, until 29-30 grains. As I moved above 30 grains they began to open up again.

As I don't have a bench rest / lead sled for the rifle, perhaps I should throw my freak results out (the ones not matching the trend.) However, if I look at both the 3-group measurement compared to furthest 2 holes measurement, I can see where the most consistent groupings were made.

I think I just need to settle on a load and leave it alone now. A 29-30 grain charge of BL(C)-2 powder seems to be a fairly good spot for my rifle.

[Blaine]

You bugger...the suspense is killing me

[Nath]

You bugger...the suspense is killing me

+1

Nath.

[AJMD429]

I was looking at one, and I like that little receiver bridge where you could easily mount peeps (...or a scope... ).

[handyrandyrc]

Just starting to make out a ridge around the firing pin hole at 33 grains...







Definite ridge now around the firing pin hole on all of these at 36 grains -- a maximum load.

[handyrandyrc]

Added new pictures...

[Jaguarundi]

You bugger...the suspense is killing me

+1

Nath.

+2 !

[Nath]

Are they mag primers? Blc2 needs mag primers!
There don't seem any excessive pressures looking at the primers, try some hotter primers.

Nath.

[handyrandyrc]

Ooohhh didn't know that! I was using Remington Large Rifle primers. I may go grab some Magnum primers if what you say is true, and re-run the tests. To say the least, my results weren't near as spectacular as I had hoped for.

[handyrandyrc]

Talked to an engineer at Hodgdon to ask him about using magnum primers in cold weather with BL(C)-2 -- he recommended I leave the magnums alone, and stick with the regular primers. As I was working towards the higher end of the scale, I could raise pressures too much.

I stuck with my Remington primers, and scaled the loads downwards. I posted results up in the original post. Looks like 20-30 grains of BL(C)-2 is going to be the sweet spot!

[Alan Wood]

Just a quick question from someone thinking of getting into reloading. Is the left hand primer in the top row of the 36 grain photo a flattened primer?

[handyrandyrc]

Yup, it's looking to be a bit flattened. You can also see a crater beginning to form around the firing pin indentation as the pressures go up. At 32 grains, there was no crater ridge. You can DEFINITELY make out a crater ridge around all the firing pin indentations at 36 grains.

36 grains was a MAXIMUM load. I definitely backed off from there. Accuracy had gone to pot with my wheel weight alloy, and I didn't need that much speed anyhow. My 'go to' load for best accuracy was at 29-30 grains. I actually am throwing an easy/even 1.90cc of BL(C)-2, which is something like 29.6 grains.

[J Miller]

handyrandyrc,

Just for the information, have you fired any 150gr or 170gr factory ammo out of that rifle yet? I'd be curious to see what their primers looked like.

Joe

[handyrandyrc]

I have not fired any factory yet. I would like to do that, and also compare factory accuracy to what little I've been able to do with hand loads so far. When I do that, I will post some results pictures.

[J Miller]

I have not fired any factory yet. I would like to do that, and also compare factory accuracy to what little I've been able to do with hand loads so far. When I do that, I will post some results pictures.

I'll be looking forward to it.

Joe

[Blaine]

I sincerely appologize for saying anything, but those groups should be around an inch at fifty yards, or better. Try some factory and see if it improves any, they you'll know what direction to go with it.

[handyrandyrc]

Picked up a box of Federal Fusion 170gr. We will see how they shoot.

[Marc]

The thing I really dislike about the rebounding hammers is that they do not support the firing pin. As a result you will find cratered primers at lower pressures with a rebounding hammer. I proved it for myself with my 356 which originally had a rebounding hammer. Top loads cratered primers. After I changed to the half cock setup I did not have cratered primers with the same loads.

I saw a Mossberg at Big Five yesterday. Outside fit and finish looked every bit as good as the competition. The birch stocks are pretty plain though.

[Alan Wood]

Yup, it's looking to be a bit flattened. You can also see a crater beginning to form around the firing pin indentation as the pressures go up. At 32 grains, there was no crater ridge. You can DEFINITELY make out a crater ridge around all the firing pin indentations at 36 grains.

36 grains was a MAXIMUM load. I definitely backed off from there. Accuracy had gone to pot with my wheel weight alloy, and I didn't need that much speed anyhow. My 'go to' load for best accuracy was at 29-30 grains. I actually am throwing an easy/even 1.90cc of BL(C)-2, which is something like 29.6 grains.

Thank you. It's one thing to read of flattened primers and craters quite another to see one.

[handyrandyrc]

I saw a Mossberg at Big Five yesterday. Outside fit and finish looked every bit as good as the competition. The birch stocks are pretty plain though.

I must agree with you there. Fit and finish is quite fine on my 464. However, it's stock definitely says UTILITY. Nothing super pretty about it, just a good workhorse. The cabinet maker here in Rexburg offered to give our (both my Dad's and mine) rifles a super nice finish for free, if we dropped off the wood. I may let Dad go take his in and see how it turns out. The 'Plain Jane' look is growing on me, so I'm not in a hurry to go have it re-done.

[Old Savage]

That Plain Jane look is great on my 20 Gauge 870 Express.