OT- Drag out your thinking caps, a fun hypothetical

[Doc Hudson]

You are in charge of what is ostensibly a major archeological expedition to study the Silk Road. To all appearances, the Smithsonian Institute, the British Museum, and the Royal Geographic Society jointly finance your expedition. In actuality, you have a second and more important mission from the British Military Intelligence Service/

Your mission is to travel the Silk Road from Shanghai, China all the way to the Mediterranean Coast at Antioch, Syria. Along the way, you are to determine the military and political situation among the Central Asian tribal states, access Russian goals in the area, and sound out possible allies against a possible Russian move against India. The expedition will last at least three years and possibly as long as five years. A thorough survey of military potential outweighs any need for speed. You will depart from Shanghai in the late Spring of 1908.

Since your expedition is going to travel through wild and lawless areas, it is to be expected that it will be heavily armed, any official problems with Chinese, Russian, and Turkish authorities have been smoothed away diplomatically, however, there is no guarantee that tribal chiefs and local warlords will co-operate.

Your expedition staff will consist of some fifty trained archeologist, artists, botanists, zoologists, geographers, cartographers, geologists, and clerical staff. In addition to the academic members, there will be some 500 Europeans and Americans (some of whom will actually be members of the British and American Armies on detached service) who will act as a military force to protect the expedition against warlords, bandits, and treachery from Russian, Chinese and Turkish agents. There will also be a few hundred coolies laborers, muleskinners, grooms, camel drivers, cooks, servants, guides, porters, translators, and guards.

Your task in this question is to explain how you plan to arm your expedition. Be specific, if you mean a Webley Irish Constabulary Revolver, say so, don’t just call it some ugly old British revolver. There are only three limitations. 1- the firearms and other weapons must be available in 1908, so no Magnum handguns or rifles, no modern assault rifles, and no M-1911 Colt Pistols. 2 - Military issue small arms should be avoided in order to provide deniability if there are spy charges made. 3 - The weapons must be light enough to be transported through some of the most rugged country in the world using only animal transport.

Feel free to specify any personal sporting arms that you would carry along as well.

So fellow gun cranks, how will you equip your expedition?

[Rusty]

Considering resupply might be a problem in that area I'd go for 1895 Winchester carbines. Chamber them in 7.62X54R just like the Czar did. I doubt that at that time there would be much in the way of a neutral arm. For side arms I'd say 1873 Peacemakers in .44-40 Thinking they might I'm not sure on this, but they just might fire .44 Russian ammo as well.

[Old Ironsights]

Full complement in SAA 38-40 or 44-40 with matching 1892s & reloading tools (rate of fire, single-caliber supply train)

+ each squad with 2 1886s for tigers/long range.

Oh, and a few .72 Enfield Muskets with Snyder Breeches to fire 12ga for Forragers.

[Ray]

Deleted.

[Doc Hudson]

I'm surprised at you guys!

No machine guns or artillery in the inventory?

How about native troops? Want them armed the same way as the European/American contingent?

What about personal hunting arms? You will spend a large part of the journey in the range of tigers and some rather large bears, not to mention wild ox, and smaller game that would be difficult to harvest with short range of M-92 Winchesters in .44-40.

Y'a;; give a few more thoughts on the matter and I'll post my ideas.

[Old Ironsights]

FWIW, I DID mention 1886s for Tigers/Long Range & smoothies for Forragers (natives)...

Ain't nothing a 45-70 can't reasonably deal with and if the supply train is an issue keeping the reloading capability to a limited selection of Cast Bullets & BP capable guns is important.

.38-40 or .44-40 are more than capable as small to midsize game-getters.

MGs are a waste of ammo for this type of "nonconfrontational" scenerio - especially when each man has a 10-shooter with him.

Artillery, again, shifts the group from "Expiditionary" to Combat... unless you are intent on hiding a couple of 75 "pack" howitzers in the bed of a wagon or 3.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

How about a compliment of Mauser Broomhandles in .30 cal for the camp protective duty, Winchester 95's in 35WCF for the longer range work, and a small number of English double guns in a 450 Nitro Express chambering for the upper echelon to enjoy some sport and game shooting as needed. I will also require a Parker CHE in 20ga for birds as I see fit. Others in my inner circle may have Parkers of lesser grades.

[piller]

Why carry any MGs as they would eat up the ammo too quickly, and back then they weren't in such common use as now. Spray and Pray is nowadays more common than trying to hit the target with the first shot.

[marlinman93]

Since it's 1908, I will take a large supply of the brand new German P-08 Lugers! Also a good supply of 98 MAusers in 8x57, and enough ammo for both to survive a small scale war!

[jeepnik]

Well heck. I'm an American, and I'll take American made. Springfield 1903's rifles. Smith & Wesson Triple Locks were introduced in 1908, so let's say we get these for handguns. For shotguns, let's take some Winchester 1897's. Since we are on a well planned and financed expedition, we'll have plenty of ammunition for all on hand. But just to be on the safe side, we'll take along enough powder, primers and projectiles to load our own. All but the Springfields are deniable, but even they were available if one had the proper funding and support.

[Doc Hudson]

OK, here are my thoughts on the matter.

I'd have a personal hunting battery consisting of a couple of best grade Holland and Holland double rifles in that new .470 Nitro Express cartridge that Holland brought our last year, and a Winchester M-1895 in 405 Win. I'd also want a coupld of Holland & Holland SXS 12 bores. For a side arm, I'd stick with the expedition's general issue weapon, a Colt New Service in .45 Long Colt.

The standard rifle for the European and American force will be a Winchester M-1895 chambered in .303 British.The expedition's native guards will be armed with Martini-Henry single-shot rifles. This might cause us a bit of a problem if we detour into India, but we'll take our chances.

For heavy weapons, we will bring ten Maxim Machine Guns also chambered for .303 British. Four of these machine guns will be kept in reserve just in case some break beyond repair. We will also carry a battery of five Krupp Model 1905 5 CM Mountain Guns The Krupp guns can be dismantled and carried on two mules or camels with additional pack animals for ammunition chests. The guns can be disassembled and loaded onto mules, or unloaded and reassembled in a matter of a couple of minutes, and it is light enough that the gun crew can drag it through all but the roughest terrain.

[Old Ironsights]

That'll work... but it seems to defeat several of your criteria and desire to remain a plausibly deniable "epiditionary" group and not a Military Force. (Maxims & Mountain Guns?)

[Griff]

I gotta concur with the Maxim & Krupp Mountain guns, this is 1908, and the world was a different place... many areas we'll be traveling thru would see any lessor armed force as simply an unplanned supply train. As I was taught... meet force with superior force... and I wouldn't expect any local militias to be as well equipped. Tho' my personal weaponry might differ, just a little, I'd prefer a Highwall in .45-110 vs. the H&H double, and I'd just HAVE to keep my Colt SAA in .45 Colt.