How about the "most under-appreciated" cartridge!

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:57 pm

While we're at it...

What round do you think that the 'experts' think is useless, but is really a great round...?

For me, in the 'bottlenecks' it would be a 280 Remington, or for 'straight-walls' the 500 S&W.

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:06 pm

The .32 WS... the .25-35 Win...

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:31 pm

I'm thinking Hornet and 221!

Nath.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:47 pm

Maybe the 257 Roberts also.

KCSO · Post by **KCSO** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:07 pm

25-30-32-Remington

billyk338 · Post by **billyk338** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:24 pm

.35 Remington and .338 Win Mag

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:25 pm

.30-30. When it came out, it was used for moose, elk, bear, etc.. In fact, I believe it was even used on elephants.(successfully) Now, the gunwriters that do most of their hunting from pickups think their job is to sell the latest super duper magnum with a scope made by Hubble on top of it to "hunters" that are to lazy to get in good enough shape to be sneaky and get closer or learn to shoot!

While there are certainly better cartridges out there, pretty much all of us own, or have owned, a .30-30, and taken game with it.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:31 pm

AJMD429 wrote:...What round do you think that the 'experts' think is useless, but is really a great round...?...

Smple the .30-30. Its' popularity is wished away as pure nostalgia!

coyote nose · Post by **coyote nose** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:36 pm

The lowly 22 LONG. Thats right. In the semi populated areas I sometimes squirrel hunt I prefer not to use the LR with its 40gn bullet. I like using a 30gn bullet in case of deflection off a tree branch etc. I'll use the short, but sometimes I have feeding problems in the 22's I'd use. The long is the perfec answer to this. I also found in my Rem 512 it is incredibly accurate. Now my big beef. Being a rimfire it is non reloadable, and the "gun experts" and I use that term loosely, have badmouthed the 22 long for ages. Now I have trouble even finding the stuff. They took away an option for me.

cshold · Post by **cshold** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:41 pm

In my book it would be the 25-35 Win. for sure.

Borregos · Post by **Borregos** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:47 pm

Griff's got it right

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:49 pm

Hobie wrote:The .32 WS... the .25-35 Win...

I'll agree with that...

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:54 pm

The .45-70 Government. You know some folks "dis" it!

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:55 pm

coyote nose wrote:The lowly 22 LONG. Thats right. In the semi populated areas I sometimes squirrel hunt I prefer not to use the LR with its 40gn bullet. I like using a 30gn bullet in case of deflection off a tree branch etc. I'll use the short, but sometimes I have feeding problems in the 22's I'd use. The long is the perfec answer to this. I also found in my Rem 512 it is incredibly accurate. Now my big beef. Being a rimfire it is non reloadable, and the "gun experts" and I use that term loosely, have badmouthed the 22 long for ages. Now I have trouble even finding the stuff. They took away an option for me.

CCI still puts it out, only they call it something else.

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:20 pm

.30-30 'nuff said.

tman · Post by **tman** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:31 pm

.356wcf. a 200yard 30-06 twin, capable of taking all north american game, from a 61/4lb. 20" barreled model 94! flatter shooting than the bigbores, especially, with a 180 grain bullet. the idiot gunwriters dammed it with faint praise. instead of calling it a .348wcf. in a lighter, handier package, they said it was a little better DEER cartridge than the underloaded .35 remington factory cartridge. SAME, this one deserverd a better fate. look at the new .338 marlin, not much difference there.

spaceman spiff · Post by **spaceman spiff** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:58 pm

the .30-30

I'm told it's not enough gun for hunting anymore.

sheesh.........

Regards,

Troy

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:16 pm

Travis Morgan wrote:
coyote nose wrote:The lowly 22 LONG. Thats right. In the semi populated areas I sometimes squirrel hunt I prefer not to use the LR with its 40gn bullet. I like using a 30gn bullet in case of deflection off a tree branch etc. I'll use the short, but sometimes I have feeding problems in the 22's I'd use. The long is the perfec answer to this. I also found in my Rem 512 it is incredibly accurate. Now my big beef. Being a rimfire it is non reloadable, and the "gun experts" and I use that term loosely, have badmouthed the 22 long for ages. Now I have trouble even finding the stuff. They took away an option for me.
CCI still puts it out, only they call it something else.

How are .22 "subsonics" and "standard velocity" rounds different than .22 "longs"?

I have to admit I like the standard velocity .22's because in my guns/experience, it seems that between 75 and 125 yards they stay accurate, even though they 'drop' more. I rarely shoot .22's beyond 75 yards, but the high velocity ones seem to go unstable when they drop below the speed of sound.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:37 pm

.22 magnum

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:48 pm

Given the thousands of meals it has harvested, its numerous types of loads, and its presence on the shelves after so many years, AND but not exclusively because of the great rifles that shoot it...
.30-30

marlinman93 · Post by **marlinman93** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:52 pm

Hobie wrote:The .32 WS... the .25-35 Win...

I'm with Hobie on the .32Win Spl.! I've grown tired of people overlooking it, or asking why it ever came out since it is barely different from the .30-30. In my opinion the .32 Win Spl does all the .30-30 does, and is a bit better for large game.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:54 pm

tman wrote:.356wcf. a 200yard 30-06 twin, capable of taking all north american game, from a 61/4lb. 20" barreled model 94! flatter shooting than the bigbores, especially, with a 180 grain bullet. the idiot gunwriters dammed it with faint praise. instead of calling it a .348wcf. in a lighter, handier package, they said it was a little better DEER cartridge than the underloaded .35 remington factory cartridge. SAME, this one deserverd a better fate. look at the new .338 marlin, not much difference there.

Bingo Tman!

Scary how great minds think alike!

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:00 pm

Yep, the old thuty thuty has killed everything in North America at one time or another and as someone posted here a while back, quite a few things in Africa as well.

meanc · Post by **meanc** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:03 pm

I have gone into the local WalMart in search of 22lr and 9mm 5 times in the last 3 weeks.

Went in week last Monday and no pistol ammo.
Went in last Wed and Fri, still no pistol ammo.
Went in this Mon still none.
Went in today and he had a case of Remington Golden 22lr. (550 bulk) I rectified that and bought it .

Over the past three weeks everything dissappeared completely from the shelves except...

.410 and 30-30.

He still had 15 boxes of each, he said he hasn't placed an order for either in 3 months so I went ahead and bought 3 boxes each of that too.

HATCHETTJACK · Post by **HATCHETTJACK** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:06 pm

if you listen to most ... the 45-70 gets very little love

second would be the 30-30, we all know ya cant actually hunt with it

flatnose · Post by **flatnose** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:15 pm

6.5 remington magnum.

morgan in nm · Post by **morgan in nm** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:35 pm

I agree with the folks who said the 32ws. I have been hearing bad things about them for years so I wouldn't buy one when they were plentiful. Ended up with an early SRC and all I can so is WOW. Now have 2 of them.

Another that I get sick of reading negative things about is the 25-20wcf.

Meeteetse · Post by **Meeteetse** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:01 pm

There is no question that the 30/30 is the least appreciated of the smokeless powder cartridges. It is looked at as an historical cartridge used only in the Winchester or Marlin lever guns, and because of the limited number of companies who chamber the cartridge, probably not very important or effective. "WRONG" Perhaps in this day and age of hunters who shoot game at unreasonable ranges with scopes so powerful they could be used as lunar telescopes. . . . the 30/30 is not correct. But the true spot and stalk, fair chase hunter knows the lowly 30/30 can get the job done.

I just wish more companies would chamber rifles, levers, single shots, bolts, pumps, et. al., for the 30/30. I know I would buy them.

Bogie35 · Post by **Bogie35** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:10 pm

30-30 with second place going to the 35 Remington.

bogie

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 9:31 pm

The 41 Magnum is a terrific revolver cartridge, but never gets any attention.

The 35 Remington will do 95% of the big game jobs in the lower 48 for 95%
of the rifelmen out there, yet it doesn't get a lot of respect, either. Same
with the 32 Special as some others have noted.

-Stretch

coyote nose · Post by **coyote nose** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:04 pm

AJMD429 wrote:
Travis Morgan wrote:
coyote nose wrote:The lowly 22 LONG. Thats right. In the semi populated areas I sometimes squirrel hunt I prefer not to use the LR with its 40gn bullet. I like using a 30gn bullet in case of deflection off a tree branch etc. I'll use the short, but sometimes I have feeding problems in the 22's I'd use. The long is the perfec answer to this. I also found in my Rem 512 it is incredibly accurate. Now my big beef. Being a rimfire it is non reloadable, and the "gun experts" and I use that term loosely, have badmouthed the 22 long for ages. Now I have trouble even finding the stuff. They took away an option for me.
CCI still puts it out, only they call it something else.
How are .22 "subsonics" and "standard velocity" rounds different than .22 "longs"?

I have to admit I like the standard velocity .22's because in my guns/experience, it seems that between 75 and 125 yards they stay accurate, even though they 'drop' more. I rarely shoot .22's beyond 75 yards, but the high velocity ones seem to go unstable when they drop below the speed of sound.

They are different by bullet weight. LR including subsonic is 40gn, longs are 30gn.

Post by **Old Savage** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:08 pm

6mm Rem.

44LVR · Post by **44LVR** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:10 pm

25-35

44

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:58 pm

Not really Old Savage, I am still trying to beat my gunsmiths out of one, that Remington bent bolt carbine.
A 660 ????

Hillbilly · Post by **Hillbilly** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:05 pm

I dont know if the 30 WCF is under appreciated... it is kinda like that old pickup truck you keep around ...starts and does it's thing and is cheap to keep.

25-35, 30-40 Krag, 32-30 and 38-40 are all rounds that should have never fallen from favor... every one has "modern" rounds that are very close in performance it always makes me wonder why we keep making more. (duh...to sell more guns -right?)

32 WS . 35 Rem 348 Win would make the list too... even the 30-06 gets a little disprespect due to modern marketing.

We had enough cartridges 70 years ago more or less

Jaguarundi · Post by **Jaguarundi** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:54 am

Rusty wrote:Yep, the old thuty thuty has killed everything in North America at one time or another and as someone posted here a while back, quite a few things in Africa as well.

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewtopic.php?t=6167

.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 4:49 am

well there are quite a few rifles made in 30-30 so I think that makes it appreciated, at least with the wool shirt and duck boot crowd.

I have to go 35 Rem, as there is only one gun made for it now.

Barnes makes a special bullet just for the 30-30 but not for the 35 Rem (you will have to go spire point, and it won't even open up on game beyond 50 yards).

I don't think you can say the 30-30 is the MOST under-appreciated.

the telegraphist · Post by **the telegraphist** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 7:14 am

The 500 Nitro Express.
Have not shot it for a number of years, but hopefully will own another rifle in this calibre one day.
Finances permitting. It will handle most things on this earth with some room to spare and its not too hard on the shoulder. A fun gun cus I dont see me getting to South Africa in the near future. Had a ruger No.1 made up for this but alas had to let it go. It made a big mess of 100kg pigs. Most see Nitro Express and assume it aint for them, huge recoil, what BS. Its just a heavy push. with a little bit of muzzle rise, well perhaps substantial. But not a sharp hit. Its an out of fashion cartridge today and very under appreciated, generally chambered in extremely fine rifles. Wish I had the money for a Holland & Holland.

Rgds
The Telegraphist

AndyM · Post by **AndyM** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:14 am

It has got to be the older lever action rounds...
32-20, 44-40, 38-40, 25-20

I do not know how many times I have read about their death in the various gun rags...
Granted you need to be a reloader to take full advantage of these rounds, but once you get hooked on them - you'll be a fan for life...

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:32 am

AJMD429 wrote:
Travis Morgan wrote:
coyote nose wrote:The lowly 22 LONG. Thats right. In the semi populated areas I sometimes squirrel hunt I prefer not to use the LR with its 40gn bullet. I like using a 30gn bullet in case of deflection off a tree branch etc. I'll use the short, but sometimes I have feeding problems in the 22's I'd use. The long is the perfec answer to this. I also found in my Rem 512 it is incredibly accurate. Now my big beef. Being a rimfire it is non reloadable, and the "gun experts" and I use that term loosely, have badmouthed the 22 long for ages. Now I have trouble even finding the stuff. They took away an option for me.
CCI still puts it out, only they call it something else.
How are .22 "subsonics" and "standard velocity" rounds different than .22 "longs"?

I have to admit I like the standard velocity .22's because in my guns/experience, it seems that between 75 and 125 yards they stay accurate, even though they 'drop' more. I rarely shoot .22's beyond 75 yards, but the high velocity ones seem to go unstable when they drop below the speed of sound.

I dunno. Never saw a need for them, so I don't use 'em. I just stick with long rifles. Good luck!

P.S.~If you need 'em, I have a bunch of longs in a cigar box I don't need.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:44 am

the telegraphist wrote:The 500 Nitro Express.
Have not shot it for a number of years, but hopefully will own another rifle in this calibre one day.
Finances permitting. It will handle most things on this earth with some room to spare and its not too hard on the shoulder. A fun gun cus I dont see me getting to South Africa in the near future. Had a ruger No.1 made up for this but alas had to let it go. It made a big mess of 100kg pigs. Most see Nitro Express and assume it aint for them, huge recoil, what BS. Its just a heavy push. with a little bit of muzzle rise, well perhaps substantial. But not a sharp hit. Its an out of fashion cartridge today and very under appreciated, generally chambered in extremely fine rifles. Wish I had the money for a Holland & Holland.

Rgds
The Telegraphist

I'm convinced I need one of those. Dunno WTH I'd hunt with it here in Kansas, but I'd find something!

lozen · Post by **lozen** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 8:48 am

I also believe the 30-30 is one of the most appreciated cartridges. I'll go with .356+358 as under appreciated.

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 10:30 am

mescalero1 wrote:.22 magnum

+1

piller · Post by **piller** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 11:58 am

For what it is worth, I too think the the .30-30 is the most underappreciated cartridge. I even have gotten away from it, and yet my wife can still hunt as well or better than me with her Marlin 336. Sounds like there are a bunch of underappreciated great old cartridges which do exactly what they are supposed to do with a minimum of fuss, muzzle blast, recoil, and press releases.

Scott Young · Post by **Scott Young** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:10 pm

for me the 32 win spcl has been poopooed in almost every sense. i can't remember reading anything that has glorified it. yet it still hangs on for those that really know. i would say the 35 rem, but there is a huge following for that cartridge that have kept the fire hot under it. i believe the internet has brought those 35 rem lover together and helped us know we are not alone.

the other cartridge i find poopooed is the .22 magnum. it isn't fast, flat, hardhitting, whatever enough. it is regulated almost as a plinking gun only as many states don't let you hunt much of anything with it. but i can't say it would under-appreciated due to too many country folks wouldn't go without one. infact owning a "magnum" is sorta a right of passage into certain walks.

the .410 would be my second choice if it were a cartridge. i simply love it for hunting coons, rabbits, and squirrels.

my choices are 32 spcl and 410 if yall let me throw in a shotshell.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 12:38 pm

I always meant to get Dad another .32 special before he died, since he talked about them so much.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:21 pm

AJMD429 wrote:...What round do you think that the 'experts' think is useless, but is really a great round...?

Several of you think the .30-30 isn't the "most under-appreciated" cartridge. But... given the parameters of the question, yep, I still gotta insist the .30-30 is it. Most, but not all of the other cartridges mentioned are not generally described as "useless"; and nary an article that I have read in the last 15-20 years has said anything else.

handirifle · Post by **handirifle** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:57 am

No doubt about it, in my mind, it's the 22LR. It will kill anything with the right placement and range. Quiet, cheap, plentiful. What more do you need?

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 1:04 am

Good point. Most folks don't realise you can nail crows out to 300 yards with them. Unfortunately, my kid doesn't realise this ain't a trick everyone can do, so he's unimpressed when I make a one shot hit in moderate wind at 200 yards with open sights.

TX Gun Runner · Post by **TX Gun Runner** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:08 pm

The 44-40 in modern guns will meet or exceed the 44 mag and the same with the 32-20 will exceed the new 327 mag in modern guns also . And bottle neck cartridge was design to feed in those lever gun .