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I recently ordered some bullets from the Bullshop for my 86 40-82, loaded them up and tried them out. They were cast in an NEI mould #208 and were resized to .410. The alloy has a Brinnel rating of 14-15. The other bullet that I have was cast in an NEI mould #225b, (I believe), using wheel weights, which should have a hardness rating of about 12. NEI 208 bullets averaged 272 grains, while the NEI 225b's averaged 277 grains. The 208's are a little longer and have a more rounded profile. The 208 is on the left in this picture.
Here is the rub. I shot 7 rounds with the 208's with 25 grains of 5744 topped with cornmeal filler. The target to the right shows the result. I thought I was just having a bad day, so I drug out some cartridges with the same load and 225b's and fired the target to the left. Both were shot at 85 yards. (The red bull is 4" across.)
Any theories as to what caused the erratic pattern with the 208's? I didn't expect to have to work up a new load because of changing the bullet type! Does this always occur when you change bullets???
On the other hand, this is what makes reloading for this old gun a challenge and a heck of a lot of fun.
Last edited by geobru on Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
There is quite a bit of variable there. If both bullets were cast of the same alloy and lubed with the same lube they probably would have shot closer to the same.
As it is, you will most likely have to work up a load for each bullet again.
Are you outside neck turning your cases? has the one on the left been fireformed in your rifle. I see a step (where the neck turning stoped)in the one on the right. That may be a reason why they dont shoot the same.
Were they both sized the same diameter? If so, I'd say most of the difference is in the alloy. Unless your wheel weight bullets were heat treated, they're probably closer to 12 BHN than 18. Also looks like a notable difference in bullet seating depth.
Not to tell you your business, but I want to say that there has been a lot of talk about the use of 5744 with a filler. Not specifically in a 40-82, but other similar large capacity cartridges where guys have ringed chambers and worse. Accurate says not to use any filler with 5744. I know some folks do and it seems to work for them, but it is usually a dacron or solid foam filler. I would be especially leery of a filler that could allow powder migration.
I wouldn't expect both bullets to group the same. They are not close to the same bullet even though they have similarities.
Profile is different
Hardness is different
Lube grooves are different
Lube type is different
Note that the 208 has a driving band forward of the crimp, where the 225 does not. If I'm seeing that correctly, that means that the nose on the 208 is undersized and rides the lands up to the driving band, while the short ogive of the 225 gives you about 3 times the effective length of the driving band of the 208.
We are shooting a bullet very similar to the 225 in our 40-82's which we've resized to .4085. Using a TP filler, and either 4198 or 3031 depending on which rifle we are loading for, it has been very accurate.
Someone asked about outside neck turning, and both of our rifles require outside neck turning even when using a .4085 bullet.
What did your bore slug btw? Both of ours slugged right at .408
Were they both sized the same diameter? If so, I'd say most of the difference is in the alloy. Unless your wheel weight bullets were heat treated, they're probably closer to 12 BHN than 18. Also looks like a notable difference in bullet seating depth.
I stand corrected on the BHN. 12 is correct. That's what happens when a guy tries to remember something off the top of his head. They are both sized at .410 and there is a difference in the seating depth.
Not to tell you your business, but I want to say that there has been a lot of talk about the use of 5744 with a filler. Not specifically in a 40-82, but other similar large capacity cartridges where guys have ringed chambers and worse. Accurate says not to use any filler with 5744. I know some folks do and it seems to work for them, but it is usually a dacron or solid foam filler. I would be especially leery of a filler that could allow powder migration.
When I first started trying to work up a load for this gun, I tried 5744 with and without filler. Without fillers produced two things. First, there was a lot of unburned powder after each shot. Second, 4" groups at 35 yards. Here's a link to that thread.
What Kansas Ed said. With a few of my old leverguns, I've experimented with quite a few different bullets. They all shoot different. Seldom do I get two different bullets to hit and group the same.
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They are both sized at .410 and there is a difference in the seating depth.