I almost blew it..BIG WARNING

[Kansas Ed]

Well, I've been reloading now for 25 years or so, and have NEVER had a close call. But tonight I almost screwed the pooch.

Here's what happened. I was loading some cast bullets in the 30-30. We decided to try a powder I've never worked with...Green Dot. Figured out my starting load, prepped the brass. Went to throw the powder. I'm using a RCBS 9010 Uniflow powder measure. I checked and double checked the charge weight, and started loading. I was through about 12 or so, charging 5 at a time, and seating the bullet. Then I got a nearly case full of powder. At first I thought it had clogged in the neck of the case, but after tapping the case a few times, I realized with a sickening feeling that it really WAS A CASE FULL OF GREEN DOT! I started checking the few I had charged on the bench without bullets, and had loads which were light, and loads which were extremely heavy.

So here's what happened....RCBS has two drop tubes. One for .22 caliber up to about .270, and one for about .30 caliber and over. I had the smaller drop tube in the measure, and it was clogging the tube...throwing seriously inconsistent charges. Now I have a routine when using my measure, throw the charge, tap the handle twice, and move on. Well, that wasn't doing it. Scared hell out of me. I pulled all that I had loaded and started over. I've NEVER had this happen to me before, but I generally don't use flake powder either.

Sooo...be on the lookout.

Ed

[TedH]

Thank goodness you caught it. That would have been ugly. It's for that exact reason that I charge all the cases I'm loading in a session, line them up in the loading block and shine a light in all of them to make sure that the powder is at the same level before ever seating a bullet.

[RKrodle]

Thanks for the heads up! I glad you were alert and caught it before shooting any of those rounds. I recently bought a PACT electronic powder dispenser. It weighs every load, but it's kind of slow.

[Hobie]

It is why I weigh every charge, pour it and seat the bullet before moving on to the next load. I still don't own a measure.

[WCF3030]

It is why I weigh every charge, pour it and seat the bullet before moving on to the next load. I still don't own a measure.

Same here.
A few years ago I was already to buy a progressive loader until I started hearing about this very thing and decided against it.
I'm never in that much of a hurry.
Glade to hear you caught it.

[RSY]

That's why I always choose a powder that's slow enough that any double-charge will overflow the case and my mistake will be obvious. Which begs the question: Green Dot in the .30-30??? What?

Another rule-of-thumb I have is to only use powders for which there are published data for a given cartridge. I personally don't have any for the .30-30 and Green Dot. The quickest Alliant powder I've ever seen for that cartridge is Re-7. On a typical burn rate chart of 150 powders, Re-7 lands around #85, whereas Green Dot is way down around #25. That is way fast.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but I think your asking for trouble with that powder and would hate to see you get hurt.

Scott

[Old Savage]

I do what Hobie does using my Dillon 550 B.

[Ysabel Kid]

Thank goodness indeed! I do what Ted does - charge them all, placing them in a loading block, then shining a light on them to make sure. I randomly check about 10% of them on the scale if I am using a powder disk measure. If I am using the Lyman DPS, I know they are all weighed correctly - but I still do the light test just to eliminate human error - as I am full of it!

I've seen what a double-charged .45 ACP case did to my friend's Colt Commander. If he had not been wearing safety glasses he would have lost an eye that day. No fun!!!

[Charles]

When I began reloading in 1958 I bought a new Hollywood power measure which came with small and large drop tubes. It came to my gunsmith and mentor (Worth Palmer). When I went to pick it up, he opened the box and threw the small drop tube in the trash. He told me that thing could get me killed. I asked him how in the heck I was going to charge small cases with the big opening in the larger drop tube. He handed me a Fitz powder funnel and told me to use it.

He knew from experience even way back then what you have experienced. Powder can and will bridge and stick in those small tubes. I still use a large drop tube and a funnel for every charge. I also look inside each one with a strong light before I seat the bullet.

I have had many powder measures since that time and I have always thrown the small drop tube away. I still prefer the old Hollywood to all others. About a year ago I picked up another on Ebay should mine go belly up. But after 50 years of use and at least a half million of thrown charges, it is good as new, so I don't expect the spare will get much use.

Thanks for the heads up and warning. Reloading has more danger and hazards associated with it, than most folks realize.

[Lefty Dude]

My RCBS uniflow measure always has the large funnel installed, I use it for everything.

[El Chivo]

I also weigh out each charge, and check all in the block at once just before seating.

I used to seat each bullet right after dropping the charge, but got interrupted once and left the case in the press, and charged it twice. I got a funny feeling and checked it before seating and yup, there were 15 grains of Blue Dot.

I no longer put them in the press to fill them, I fill them right in the loading block. I use two, one for empty cases, and move them over to the second block as they are filled. Then I check them all with the light. So far so good.

[20cows]

I use a very old Redding powder measure with a later version's long drop tube, about three inches. It's clear and I can see any clogs (hasn't ever happened) as I charge each case indidvidually.

It's the larger diameter tube as well.

[winchester1886]

I am with Hobie on this one, plus I find you get uniform accuracy if you weigh every load.

[Borregos]

Same as Ted and YK, I always have them in a loading block and check with a light before seating the bullets. Also every load has been weighed.
Thanks for posting, you may well have saved somebody from a big problem!!

[oldmax]

Good Post, Good reminder !!!! Thanks,

[Slick13]

Green Dot in the .30-30??? What?

I was thinking the same thing, what the heck is Green Dot doing in a .30-30 load?! Green Dot has one use imo (though there are pistol recipes for it), 12 ga. target loads.... in a Winchester hull 18 to 20 grains of it under 1 1/8 oz of shot pushing it out the barrel at between 1150 and 1230 fps.

~Michael

[Slick13]

It is why I weigh every charge, pour it and seat the bullet before moving on to the next load. I still don't own a measure.

When only loading up a few rounds I always weight, pour, then once all the cases are charged, hold the reloading block under a light to make sure all the cases are filled and at the same level. Only time I'd use a powder measure would be when loading 20 or more cartridges, and only then when I'm using ball powder. Again, I'd look at all the charged cases under a light before seating a bullet.

~Michael

[Doc Hudson]

It is why I weigh every charge, pour it and seat the bullet before moving on to the next load. I still don't own a measure.

I cannot tell you how happy I am to learn that I'm not the only cantankerous old cuss who doesn't trust powder measures and weighs every charge!! It might not be fast, but it sure is safe!!

Kansas Ed, I'm certainly glad you caught the problem before it became a real problem. But bridging is one of the reasons I mainly stick with ball and stick powders.

[gunslinger598]

I reckon I'm another one who measures every charge. At least one person has poo poo'd my practice. It's cheap insureance for me. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one doing it that way.

[Sixgun]

Very informative post. As I have blown up one very nice 1886 and almost blew another, I am most probably at fault. Its easy to blame "metal fatigue" and other things. As I load lots of ammo, it would take too much time to weigh and check every charge on my progressive machines, so I have developed another system. When using powders that might possibly bridge, (IMR Series, some A.A.) I weigh the loaded round on a digital scale. If you use the same brand of brass and have tight quality control, each loaded round comes out surprisingly close. I have a quality control of + or - 3 grains. So far---so good------------------Sixgun

[Blaine]

Lately, I've been using the powder dippers......amazingly accurate and I can't tell the difference, on paper targets, the diff between painstakeingly measured loads and quick dipped ones......Of course, I do the flashlight thing before seating any bullets......

[O.S.O.K.]

First off - really glad that you caught this and avoided distaster!

I have an RCBS measure and use it for everything as well - with the large aperture installed. I just take the extra measure of inspecting them under a light to ensure they are all at the same level. I do the whole batch at once and then seat the bullets. The small aperture goes on for .223 and such but I am very cautious about checking as mentioned - plus I really like to use ball powders. Anyhoo, never had any problems.

And there's nothing wrong with using pistol or shotty powder for mild cast bullet loads - I've done it with very good results and I know many that others that do as well - you just need to be extra careful in the charging!

Having said all that, I am looking at the Lyman auto measure with the re-do feature - the one that dispenses and weighs the charge for you. The primary reason is that I would like to use more stick powders and don't like the SLOW process of weighing and trickling each charge. There are many good stick powders - Varget is a newer one that is really good.

For those that must weigh each charge - that is the cat's meow.

[jnyork]

Thank goodness you caught it. That would have been ugly. It's for that exact reason that I charge all the cases I'm loading in a session, line them up in the loading block and shine a light in all of them to make sure that the powder is at the same level before ever seating a bullet.

Has always worked for me.

[w30wcf]

[quote="RSY"] Green Dot in the .30-30??? What?

5.5 grs. of Green Dot is a very nice .30-30 "Short Range" load under a Lyman 311008 (120 gr.) bullet. It works very well.

w30wcf

[w30wcf]

Kansas Ed,
Thank you for making others aware of what can happen with a small opening drop tube. Glad you caught what was happening and avoided what could have been a very unpleasant experience.

Years ago I discovered that bridging could occur with certain powders in the smaller opening drop tubes. Now the only thing I use them for is black powder since they dispense a little more slowly which allows the powder to settle a bit more.

Pards, stay safe!

w30wcf

[Doc Hudson]

The primary reason is that I would like to use more stick powders and don't like the SLOW process of weighing and trickling each charge. There are many good stick powders - Varget is a newer one that is really good.

For those that must weigh each charge - that is the cat's meow.

O.S.O.K.

Why not try the method I use?

I use an RCBS powder measure. I adjust it as close as possible to the desired charge weigh, throw the charge in the scale pan, weigh it and either trickle in a smidgen more powder if it is over, or dump it back in the hopper if it is over. It is lots faster than trickling the whole charge.

[stretch]

Great post!

Like Doc Hudson said, I'm glad I'm not the only dinosaur who weighs his loads.

If I'm loading using my Lyman measure or the Lee Dippers, I'll set up to load just under
or right at the load I'm aiming for, and trickle up to the EXACT weight. I try to get at least 5
or 10 cases loaded with powder before I seat the bullets - that way I can shine a light in each of
them to see if I managed to double-charge the case. Paranoid?! You bet! This is also a useful
method when working up loads - load 5 or ten at a time at one powder charge before changing
to the next. I also box 'em and label the charges on the box as I go - then there's no confusion
as to what I'm shooting.

On a progressive press I'll check the first 10 loads or so after the press is set up, and then every
5th or 10th load depending on how things are going. If something doesn't feel right, the case is
dumped and we try again. I've found Lee's Pro 1000 to have a superbly accurate measure. Once it
is set, it is very, very, consistent - moreso than my Dillon Square Deal.

I've also found it a good idea to check the OAL every once in awhile, especially if using heavily lubed lead bullets.
Seating dies can get a buildup of lube in them. I also measure 5 bullets selected at random from each new box.
The bullet length, diameter, and weight are all written down. Why? For one thing I'm sure that there wasn't a packaging
error, and for another I'll know how fussy to be on cartridge OAL. If the bullets are all the same length, then my
OAL tolerance will be a thousandth or two. If the bullet lengths vary 10 thou - not as uncommon as one might
think with some soft-nosed hunting projectiles, then I know I'll have to have a little bit of leeway there.
Note that if one bullet is a bit longer, the OAL of that cartridge will also have to be a shade longer to
keep the case capacity, which relies on the BASE of the bullet, the same. OAL by itself doesn't really matter
as long as the cartridge will chamber, and the loader is happy with the relationship between the bullet
and the beginning of the lands in his barrel - the cartridge OAL is really listed in loading manuals to make sure
that the bullet isn't seated too deeply, thus affecting case capacity and pressure.

One other tip I've picked up when using a measure, is to put a scrap of paper on top of the powder with the type
of powder written on it. If one is interrupted for a day (or week!) when loading, then there's no doubt what powder was left
in the measure. No paper? Out goes the powder - no exceptions. Always throw the label away when the measure is
emptied, that way there are no slips of paper floating around waiting to get put in the powder measure by mistake. Always
make a new label when the measure is filled.

[Nath]

Well spotted. I use a scoop for that flaky stuff unless in bushes for shotgun reloaders.

Nath.

[Old Ironsights]

Well spotted. I use a scoop for that flaky stuff unless in bushes for shotgun reloaders.

Nath.

Good call. That's what I do as well.

[marlinman93]

I never load a single bullet until all my cases are charged. I don't weigh each charge, but I do compare them visually, and then spot weigh several from each box of brass I charge.
Additionally, I've reworked the mouth of each of my drop tubes so they are beveled and make a smooth transition.
Haven't had trouble with Green Dot ever, but I have in the past had problems with some other powders that didn't flow well.

[Slick13]

Green Dot in the .30-30??? What?

5.5 grs. of Green Dot is a very nice .30-30 "Short Range" load under a Lyman 311008 (120 gr.) bullet. It works very well.

w30wcf

That sure is a heckuva small amount of powder (weight and amount of space it takes up) to put in that big case. Do you put in a peice of toilet paper on top of the powder to keep it back by the primer?

~Michael

[Kansas Ed]

Green Dot in the .30-30??? What?

5.5 grs. of Green Dot is a very nice .30-30 "Short Range" load under a Lyman 311008 (120 gr.) bullet. It works very well.

w30wcf

That sure is a heckuva small amount of powder (weight and amount of space it takes up) to put in that big case. Do you put in a peice of toilet paper on top of the powder to keep it back by the primer?

~Michael

Actually, a nearly double charge of GD actually was up in the neck by about a third. That's why it stuck out at me. And this is a cast bullet load which was a Lyman recommended load.

Ed

[BestLever]

Hello Riflemen-I can't add to the handloading wisdom already posted on this thread but only confirm that it has so far kept me out of trouble reloading. I use a powder thrower set slightly below my desired powder weight and then dump the powder onto the scales to verify the weight. Usually I will need to add a bit of powder from my dribbler to bring the powder weight spot on. I also use check weights to adjust my scales every time I adjust them for a new load. I load all my cases with powder and then visually check the cases with a flashlight. I then seat bullets. this is slow but I enjoy reloading and am rarely in a hurry. This thread is a good topic to review. Thanks. Life is good, BestLever

[drboomboom]

Add me to the list. I also measure each load, then seat the bullet before going on to the next one. This has been the system I use since catching a double charge of Winchester 231 with some .38 specials in the block. Glad you caught it in time.

[Charles]

I always draw fire from Dillon users when I saw I do not trust progressive loading presses. The ony over charge I have fired in my live was a 38 Special loaded on a Dillon press. It was a smooth flowing ball powder (AA5) but when I touched off the round I knew it was very, very hot. As luck would have it, I did not damage the Colt Officers model pistol in which it was fired.

I know of two other folks who have blown up handguns with overcharges loaded on Dillon progressive presses.

Shure it was all probably operator error, many of us can't or don't have the degree if intense concentration it takes to use those machines. Dillon sells allo of equipment so there are many, many people who don't share my sentiments.

[3leggedturtle]

Yes you screwed up. But and its a BIG BUT, your good habits saved you!! So dont whip yourself too much, because you caught it and, and. and and, AND you caught IT. NUFF SAID

[RSY]

Green Dot in the .30-30??? What?

5.5 grs. of Green Dot is a very nice .30-30 "Short Range" load under a Lyman 311008 (120 gr.) bullet. It works very well.

w30wcf

Fair enough amigos. As for me, I'll continue to stick with powders that won't allow me to double-, triple-, quadruple-, and even quintuple-charge a load. Seriously, what's the upside to doing otherwise???

Just be careful out there. We need all the levergunners (and leverguns ) we can get.

Scott