Who needs a horse...???

[AJMD429]

.
...actually I'd rather have a horse, but I'm sure one of these would be easier and more affordable...

https://youtu.be/eTobJNwQKpo?si=iljHFCXo7MJ7uBnD

If bad things happen, I'll bet there will be plenty of ne'er-do-wells with such transportation.

[jeepnik]

Well, that's fine if you have gas and spare parts. But horses can eat off the land, and they are self replicating. Maybe not as fast, but riding like that you would easily ride into an ambush and not have a clue until you are talking to St. Peter.

Not exactly low (although much quieter), certainly slow, and you can lead a horse in the dark much easier than pushing a motorcycle.

[Bill in Oregon]

Fascinating. Even I could probably ride one. Not prohibitive at $5K.

https://eridepros.com/product/pro-ss-19/

[AJMD429]

.
It is interesting how they are almost silent.

I hadn't thought about that in terms of potentially being on the receiving end of people arriving with that mode of transportation to do bad things. Potentially quieter than horses, for that matter...

The idea of a conveyance like that which is far easier to operate than a motorcycle, requires no fuel, and can be potentially charged up with some solar panels and a battery pack or generator, is intriguing. Easier to hide than a horse, as well. Plus nothing to saddle up or prepare if you suddenly need to go somewhere; you just hop on and scoot.

Probably be nice to have both, but having had a Halflinger who loved to tear down fence and escape, and required a fair amount of maintenance since we didn't have large areas of pasture, it does pose an interesting option. From videos I see of nations that go down the tubes, bicycles and scooters of various sorts certainly seem popular.

[Bill in Oregon]

Doc, when I lived in the small town of Talent in the Rogue Valley of Southern Oregon, an innovative engineer came up with an electric street bike called the Brammo, and they went into production in an abandoned Walmart. These were bigger bikes than the E Ride, and it was always a surprise to hear one whoosh by in near silence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brammo

[JimT]

From videos I see of nations that go down the tubes, bicycles and scooters of various sorts certainly seem popular.

Having lived in the Third World, while there are bicycles and motorbikes, I saw clearly that the vast majority of the populations have only their legs to rely on for travel.

[Grizz]

I will put my KL250 up against that any time. I can easily carry 6g of fuel in 2 flatpacks, which gives me something like a 700 mile range, probably a lot more if I'm traveling deserted roads at 30. KL will go anywhere the e can go, and carry a bigger load if it has to. The e bike is tied to the grid, a desperately weak substitute. Like, how long will it take to recharge the battery at night? What size solar cell array will be required to charge the battery in deep forest glens?

For a trip to the grocery store, or shooting range, where the total round trip length does not exceed the usual feed trough location, well and good. I have a 3-door hatch that gets me 350 miles on a tank of gas, goes most of the places jeeps go, and can carry a lot of provisions + fuel . . . for about half the price of the e bike . . . won't be any boon docking on the e ...

doesn't add up for my way of thinking, regardless of the fun factor.

back in the day, remember washing machines that had gas engines? those engines were the start of all the pit bikes and go carts and scooters and off roaders that we have now, electric grid made the washers able to come indoors, but good old gasoline made horses optional . . . imo,

grizz

[BenT]

My friend has one of those and says it's a hoot. He takes it up to his hunting cabin and runs forest service roads with it. There is no petals. This was the next step in getting a smaller dirt bike. But he still has his KTM. The wife and I got E-bikes last year and can cover more ground with them, so you get to see more stuff. Not interested in riding city bike trails. We hit all the scenic bike trails that are along rivers. The best thing is that if you get tired you just throttle back to the truck.

[450 Fuller]

Well, I have had a few horses and still have 3 McCllelan saddles-the best saddle for rough mountain country
like AZ-NM and points west.

That said, an older BMW R-bike makes more sense. Economical and easy to work on. No computers,
very popular in Europe & USA- will do well on rough roads.
Horses do need fuel-whether you are riding them or not. They come in handy on front grass lawns-from experience.
No lawn care needed.

[Griff]

As a novelty, sure... but in an "end of civilization as we know it" thing, batteries degrade over time... If I can get mine to last five years they're exceptional. So in 5 years you have a two wheeled, unstable, poorly balanced cart. My horses were 6 & 3 when I acquired them, five years later they 11 & 8, but in the middle & beginning of their best useable years! One had already replaced herself, TWICE, with minimal help from me. Also, works as a source of income. Even with the occasional snit, I'll take a horse!

[Grizz]

That said, an older BMW R-bike makes more sense. Economical and easy to work on. No computers,
very popular in Europe & USA- will do well on rough roads.
Horses do need fuel-whether you are riding them or not. They come in handy on front grass lawns-from experience.
No lawn care needed.

I have two airheads, they keep each other running as parts bikes, which one will outlast the other is not known yet.

But the KL will out-go them on the roads I like to ride... I hope I have one more trans-con ride left in me on the cruiser, I started with an airhead and rode cross-country before I owned first car. Maybe will get a dream catcher trip yet . . .

Yeah Griff, the KL can run without a battery, has direct magneto ignition, with a separate lighting coil. It's a good setup.
My first airhead, an R-50, had magneto ignition too. Just like the airplane engine it came from.

Still, they don't nuzzle you for the treats in your coat pocket, so that's a drawback of the iron horses.
grizz

[Scott Tschirhart]

I’m with Griff on this one. But they sure are nimble and quiet

[JimT]

In my younger days I rode horses where you would never get a motorbike of any kind. The Appaloosa that I had was so sure-footed I rode him places I would not try to go on foot.

But horses are a way of life ... mine were friends .... not something inanimate that you can park in a garage and forget about for years.

[Grizz]

In my younger days I rode horses where you would never get a motorbike of any kind. The Appaloosa that I had was so sure-footed I rode him places I would not try to go on foot.

But horses are a way of life ... mine were friends .... not something inanimate that you can park in a garage and forget about for years.

I rode an Appaloosa in the deep woods of California gold country. One day she jumped about 5 feet straight sideways, she saw the coiled rattle snake that I didn't ! Since then I've had high regard for those beauties.

[Griff]

Yeah Griff, the KL can run without a battery, has direct magneto ignition, with a separate lighting coil. It's a good setup...Still, they don't nuzzle you for the treats in your coat pocket, so that's a drawback of the iron horses.
grizz

While I know the mechanics of making gasoline, the source product and again, power for such an operation will not likely be present.

[Grizz]

Yeah Griff, the KL can run without a battery, has direct magneto ignition, with a separate lighting coil. It's a good setup...Still, they don't nuzzle you for the treats in your coat pocket, so that's a drawback of the iron horses.
grizz

While I know the mechanics of making gasoline, the source product and again, power for such an operation will not likely be present.

yup, making gasoline could be an issue, hope Jesus gets back before things get that way!

[AJMD429]

But horses are a way of life ... mine were friends .... not something inanimate that you can park in a garage and forget about for years.

Very true. Plus the care and feeding isn't automatic. Few of us really have enough grazeable land to support horses.

However the BEST scenario would be to have all sorts of options.

Horses to go places or carry loads that bikes and trucks can't go.
Trucks and tractors for whenever you can get fuel.
Electrics for when you can't.
And. STEAM ENGINE generator to have your own grid.

One problem is if grid down fuel isn't likely to be easy to get.

[JimT]

One problem is if grid down fuel isn't likely to be easy to get.

It might be possible to get a whole lot of fuel out of dead computerized vehicles. Depending on the circumstances.

[Scott Tschirhart]

One problem is if grid down fuel isn't likely to be easy to get.

It might be possible to get a whole lot of fuel out of dead computerized vehicles. Depending on the circumstances.

Only if they are freshly dead. The alcohol in our current gasoline doesn’t store well for too long.

[Bill in Oregon]

Hmmm. I am reminded of Mad Max movies ...

[Scott Tschirhart]

Hmmm. I am reminded of Mad Max movies ...

I had that same thought.

[rock-steady]

https://youtu.be/3MmSeu0pksc

Rick made it to Atlanta on a horse.......

[Grizz]

One problem is if grid down fuel isn't likely to be easy to get.

It might be possible to get a whole lot of fuel out of dead computerized vehicles. Depending on the circumstances.

Only if they are freshly dead. The alcohol in our current gasoline doesn’t store well for too long.

it still burns though. I have gas in containers that's years old. It still runs when I mix it into a tank of this year's gas. It still runs the mower and trimmer and chain saw. biggest problem of the water in the fuel is damage to the carb innards, which is a maintenance issue. I used to put in fuel additives, don't bother any more. won't be good racing fuel, but will run the vehicles OK and the garden tools . . .

I am reminded of the value of chamois for filtering fuel. keep the rust and water from getting into the fuel. still remember Dad using chamois in the funnel he was gassing his airplane with . . .

[Griff]

I only use non-ethanol gas in the lawnmowers, chainsaws, trimmers, generators and my golf carts; and try to keep the equipment full. When I shut anything down, I run the carbs out of gas, so the fuel doesn't sit in the carbs. Except for the lawnmowers and golf carts, (they get used often enough that it doesn't matter).

[TraderVic]

If/when we're out of fossil fuels for any significant amount of time, transportation wise, we're in a bad place.....at least where we have long winters (as far as the ability to put up stored feed).

The Amish will have the last laugh.

Regular bicycles for awhile, then we're walking..

[Streetstar]

I use one for weight loss and fitness --- there are trails that i want to ride that i am just not physically fit enough to handle on my own -and i feel my E-bike has extended my cycling career greatly.

Mine is a bit special purpose , sure, but i have seen manufacturers market rack systems for them so i could really make this thing into a little mule if i needed to

But since i ride for recreation and sport, i don't need the bike encumbered with excess weighty objects and things that will work loose rolling through a dedicated mountain bike trail. In a perfect world and if i could afford it, i would have 2 of these bikes - one stripped down just like this and another one set up with racks , cargo carriers, -- you can even pull little bike trailers with them. Not uncommon to pick up a kiddie trailer from a formerly well meaning mom or dad for pennies on the dollar when they discover rolling the kids around in a trailer is not as much fun aas they thought it would be - then re-configure to a small cargo trailer


I still have to pedal my bike and i greatly prefer it to the type that to me are just electric mini bikes. Theres no free lunch in nature and its nice to get some health benefits out of it ----- but i agree with some of the counterpoints already brought up -- in a true bad times environment, how do you keep it charged, and once the battery degrades in a few years -- its now a 50 pound bicycle thats very hard to pedal , as opposed to a conventional bike that might weigh 30 pounds







Not mine - some images i snagged from the Old Man Mountain website - the people who make the racks

[Scott Tschirhart]

I expect that this technology is only going to get better.

[jeepnik]

No matter how good the technology gets, a mechanical device can't produce off spring.

[Grizz]

I only use non-ethanol gas in the lawnmowers, chainsaws, trimmers, generators and my golf carts; and try to keep the equipment full. When I shut anything down, I run the carbs out of gas, so the fuel doesn't sit in the carbs. Except for the lawnmowers and golf carts, (they get used often enough that it doesn't matter).

This is good practice. Another one that I've used for years is to shut down a running engine by slowly pouring lube oil into the carburator to choke the engine off. I do this to my chain saw and other small engines that I won't be using for a season. I've done this with truck and car engines, and boat engines. I did this to a Honda 4-wheeler my daughter left with us in Alaska. I wasn't using it so I warmed it up with a long ride and choked the engine with lube oil. Daughter showed up years later, 3 or 4 to retrieve it and it started on the second kick and ran as well as the day it was shut down. Worked on my flathead truck and boat engines, they never seized up in the hostile sea environment. . . Probably would have been perfect for steam donkeys, but I missed out on all that fun.

BE CAREFUL WITH ANY 71 SERIES DETROIT ENGINE ! ! ! THEY RUN JUST FINE ON THEIR OWN LUBE OIL, ONLY WAY TO STOP THEM IS TO CHOKE THE AIR SUPPLY. EPIC EPISODES OF THIS STORY IN THE FLEET. MY 8-V had a choke damper on the air intake. Others have used a sleeping bag to stop a run-away engine, which can happen with the blower eats its oil seals.. oh my...

i know you know this Griff!

grizz

[jeepnik]

Runaway engines are no joke. 1975 an F-4 Phantom II had a runaway left engine. One of the guys on my rescue truck stopped it by throwing his proximity suit coat in the intake. The most spectacular case of choking an engine I’ve ever seen.

Pilot and rear seater seemed happy. Engine maintenance types not so much.

[Grizz]

Runaway engines are no joke. 1975 an F-4 Phantom II had a runaway left engine. One of the guys on my rescue truck stopped it by throwing his proximity suit coat in the intake. The most spectacular case of choking an engine I’ve ever seen.

Pilot and rear seater seemed happy. Engine maintenance types not so much.

that's intense. how long does the engine swap take on the F-4?

[GunnyMack]

A buddy of mines father bought a model RC jet engine, it was a bigger model for a B52 /747 type model. He cobbled it together on a bicycle frame. They rode it once! At about half throttle you were doing at least 45mph! Thankfully he didn't rig a very large fuel tank!

Your feet are the best thing for you, they won't run off without you, throw you, step on your toes. Although an equine is a decent early alert system.

[Griff]

I only use non-ethanol gas in the lawnmowers, chainsaws, trimmers, generators and my golf carts; and try to keep the equipment full. When I shut anything down, I run the carbs out of gas, so the fuel doesn't sit in the carbs. Except for the lawnmowers and golf carts, (they get used often enough that it doesn't matter).

This is good practice. Another one that I've used for years is to shut down a running engine by slowly pouring lube oil into the carburator to choke the engine off. I do this to my chain saw and other small engines that I won't be using for a season. I've done this with truck and car engines, and boat engines. I did this to a Honda 4-wheeler my daughter left with us in Alaska. I wasn't using it so I warmed it up with a long ride and choked the engine with lube oil. Daughter showed up years later, 3 or 4 to retrieve it and it started on the second kick and ran as well as the day it was shut down. Worked on my flathead truck and boat engines, they never seized up in the hostile sea environment. . . Probably would have been perfect for steam donkeys, but I missed out on all that fun.
BE CAREFUL WITH ANY 71 SERIES DETROIT ENGINE ! ! ! THEY RUN JUST FINE ON THEIR OWN LUBE OIL, ONLY WAY TO STOP THEM IS TO CHOKE THE AIR SUPPLY. EPIC EPISODES OF THIS STORY IN THE FLEET. MY 8-V had a choke damper on the air intake. Others have used a sleeping bag to stop a run-away engine, which can happen with the blower eats its oil seals.. oh my...
i know you know this Griff!
grizz

So too with the 92 series Detroits.

[Scott Tschirhart]

Your feet are the best thing for you, they won't run off without you, throw you, step on your toes. Although an equine is a decent early alert system.

I walk a mile every morning with the dog. He loves it and it’s good for me.

[gcs]

All these options are great....but if things go real bad, where ya gonna go?

[Grizz]

All these options are great....but if things go real bad, where ya gonna go?

Pacific Ocean

[GunnyMack]

All these options are great....but if things go real bad, where ya gonna go?

Pacific Ocean

Can I bring my fishing rod?

[Grizz]

All these options are great....but if things go real bad, where ya gonna go?

Pacific Ocean

Can I bring my fishing rod?

as long as you clean the catch and make fish tacos

[GunnyMack]

Dunno about the tacos but I've cleaned a few fish and butchered many deer type critters!

[Streetstar]

All these options are great....but if things go real bad, where ya gonna go?

Pacific Ocean

Can I bring my fishing rod?

as long as you clean the catch and make fish tacos

I tried to make fish tacos. They didn’t like them.

[Grizz]

Pacific Ocean

Can I bring my fishing rod?

as long as you clean the catch and make fish tacos

I tried to make fish tacos. They didn’t like them.

I know. Tell them no ice cream until the tacos are all gone . . .

[Paladin]

I have thought about those often but they lack the cargo capabilities I would like for the bush in Alaska and around the house in the lower 48. I will stick with my UTVs and ATVs. For running around the lower house it doesn't have the range for to and from town and the UTVs are road-legal.

Part of the 50-mile (one-way) ride to get to the hunting camp south of Ft Yukon.

DSCN0071.JPG

[Drawdown]

Not me, I've got a Donk, I mean Appalachian Mule. Fill it with feed before leaving and it'll still have near half a belly full long after my butts done for. Hunting, fishing, long days camping, and it stays where I tie him up. This pic this morning shooting, a makeshift shooting bench added.

20240529_112054.jpg

[Drawdown]

Had it 12 years, nothing done but change oil, one set tires. But I better be getting a battery soon! Hauled in several deer, plenty fish, cookouts, campouts, and theres some dandy trailers to put behind it if I needed.

20231111_105906.jpg

They're all very good, tough, well made! But, I've been around these things all my life, outdoors, even mining use to get to mine cut outs for a required air check weekly, and young fools who test em regularly just see how far and fast, how steep they can get!!! But some are belt driven, lotta electric shifts, etc! But I've yet to see the basic gear& shaft drive Honda Foreman to break down 10 miles back of nowhere! Never, but I know of belt drives breaking, and you're stuck till a tow! Plus manual shift eases down hill! Awesome machine!

[Streetstar]

Not me, I've got a Donk, I mean Appalachian Mule. Fill it with feed before leaving and it'll still have near half a belly full long after my butts done for. Hunting, fishing, long days camping, and it stays where I tie him up. This pic this morning shooting, a makeshift shooting bench added.20240529_112054.jpg

I thought DDonk was urban slang for a 70's to 80's sedan all jacked up on 28" chrome wheels with metalflake paintjobs!

That is an impressive looking rifle however, sir !

[Drawdown]

Yeah you right, that's "The Mule"! It and that rifle do their jobs well!