An old experiment that I need to get back to

[Scott Tschirhart]

Modern Keith inspired revolver in .44 Special:

[JimT]

I like that grip!!

[Scott Tschirhart]

Thanks Jim.

Still a work in progress

[Walt]

Beautiful!

[GunnyMack]

That's a beaut!
What exactly is the experiment here ?

[Scott Tschirhart]

I like that grip!!

These stocks were Hogue cowboy stocks with no figure at all. Seemed like they had a painted on finish.

I sanded them down to reshape and narrow them and I was surprised to see the beautiful wood underneath

[ollogger]

That is very nice!!




Brad

[Scott Tschirhart]

That's a beaut!
What exactly is the experiment here ?

The gun did not shoot well from the factory. It seems to be mechanically correct, but it did not shoot well.

I lapped the barrel to slick it up and re-cut the forcing cone. Opened up and made the chamber mouths uniform.

I had Bobby Tyler put a Freedom Arms style interchangeable front sight. I filed a sight blank the way I wanted it and sent it to Feemin Garza who made the bead front sight for me.

I worked on the stocks and they still need work. I narrowed them down with a sanding block last night.

It now shoots consistently well. But I want to try some slightly larger Keith bullets, like .432 diameter.

I think that might make it turn on.

The goal is to get optimum results with a Skeeter load.

I’m close, but it’s still a work in progress.

[GunnyMack]

You have indeed done everything to make it shoot. Keep us posted!

[Grizz]

I like the front sight and the hammer . . .

[Scott Tschirhart]

You have indeed done everything to make it shoot. Keep us posted!

I was shooting some .430 diameter Keith’s today and I noted that they were lose in the cylinder throats. They clocked just under 950 fps.

So I ordered some .432 diameter Keith bullets this afternoon. That should fill the chamber throats a bit better.

I’m hoping that will do the job.

[GunnyMack]

Kind of making me want to go shoot my Single Six Special!
I have a bunch of 250 cast bullets but no Unique. I do have Universal which is just a tad slower. Though no data for it with 250s.

[Scott Tschirhart]

Kind of making me want to go shoot my Single Six Special!
I have a bunch of 250 cast bullets but no Unique. I do have Universal which is just a tad slower. Though no data for it with 250s.

You can use the same data as Unique. Start with 6 gr and work up if you feel the need. You may decide to stop right there.

[Scott Tschirhart]

I cleaned it last night and all fouling came out with a patch soaked with Hoppes No. 9. So the barrel is plenty slick now.

I installed the bead front sight yesterday after shooting over the chronograph. I really like how it picks up my eye. Fermin has this bead screwed into the blade rather than pressed in and it’s therefore much more rugged. It won’t back out or fall out with use.

[GunnyMack]

Kind of making me want to go shoot my Single Six Special!
I have a bunch of 250 cast bullets but no Unique. I do have Universal which is just a tad slower. Though no data for it with 250s.

You can use the same data as Unique. Start with 6 gr and work up if you feel the need. You may decide to stop right there.

I just looked at Hodgon site, they say 4.6 - 5.6 of Universal.

[samsi]

I really like that front sight setup. The one place that Lipsey's & Ruger screwed up on those was using a too-short front sight. I removed the rear sight base springs from mine and screwed it down tight, but still had to file about .012" from the rear blade to zero it. The Flattop .45 got the front sight height the .44 Special should have had.

Mine doesn't usually shoot up to it's potential either, as it came with some thread choke. Throats are uniform at .432-ish IIRC. I tried to iron some of the choke out shooting a pile of 200XTP's over 2400. That turned out to be a good accurate load that I wasn't actually looking for.

[Scott Tschirhart]

I’m not sure why they went with such a short front sight. They had to figure that we would want to shoot them.

[samsi]

Kind of making me want to go shoot my Single Six Special!
I have a bunch of 250 cast bullets but no Unique. I do have Universal which is just a tad slower. Though no data for it with 250s.

You can use the same data as Unique. Start with 6 gr and work up if you feel the need. You may decide to stop right there.

I just looked at Hodgon site, they say 4.6 - 5.6 of Universal.

That's for a Magma style 240, a "true" Keith bullet (429421, HG503, RCBS 44-250K) will allow another full grain at the same ballpark pressure. When loading the Universal/Keith combo I go all the way up 8 grains. Some of the old timers considered 8.5 Unique to be max, so it's close. From my 5 1/2" gun it gives 1080 fps.

[samsi]

I’m not sure why they went with such a short front sight. They had to figure that we would want to shoot them.

I said pretty much the same thing when they came out, along with "Didn't they look at Elmer's guns before they did this ?"

[Walt]

When the BH flat top .44 specials first came out, I bought one but the front sight at 3/8" was way too low to shoot the Skeeter load. I sent it back to Ruger requesting a 1/2" sight and after that it shot just fine without extremes in rear sight adjustment.

Oddly enough, my Bisley .44 spl has a 3/8" front sight and it shoots Skeeter loads without an issue. It likely has to do with the longer grip frame not allowing as much muzzle rise as the regular frame.

[GunnyMack]

I won't run anything as hot as that, my Special is on a Single Six frame . I don't want to chance this 1 of a kind blowing up. John Gallagher and I put it together while we were attending the gunsmith program at Trinidad St Jr College.

[Bill in Oregon]

Scott, you are within a hair of absolute sixgun perfection right there. Great project!

[Scott Tschirhart]

What’s bad is that after I started this project, I found the perfect sixgun.

That’s why this project lapsed for so long.

[GunnyMack]

Well Scott make this your backup gun

I'll have to give these 250gr cast a closer look to see if they are a Keith or not. I got a shipping tote full of bullets, supplies, brass years ago from a widow. In it was a couple hundred of these as well as a bunch of 158s for 338/357.

[GunnyMack]

Yup these are a Keith bullet!

20240407_182128.jpg

I just realized how long these have been sitting around, top left corner shows 1982!

20240407_182201.jpg

[Scott Tschirhart]

Experiment continues.

I loaded up and fired 66 rounds of 240 gr XtPs over 19 grains of 296.

A pretty stout .44 Special load, but this gun loves it.

Got the gun good and hot and tried to iron out the bore.

Skeeter loads already shoot better but I think I need to get any jacketed bullet fouling out before I get serious.

[4t5]

Scott , what finish did you use it looks great !

[Scott Tschirhart]

Birchwood Casey Tru Oil

[4t5]

Thanks !

[Scott Tschirhart]

I’ll sand them down a couple of more times over the next few days and put about three more coats. Then they will really pop!

[Scott Tschirhart]

Two coats.

[Scott Tschirhart]

As I wrote previously, I was unable to get good groups with my Skeeter loads. But there was nothing I could point to dimensionally that would make this gun not shoot.

I took a page from fellow Shootist Brian Pierce and fired 100 hot loads with 240 gr XTP bullets through the bore.

Now it shoots the Skeeter load as tight as I can hold.

[Chaser]

Fine looking revolver Scott.

Obviously it works, but what does shooting the hot loads thu it do for the bore?

Joe

[Scott Tschirhart]

Good question Joe and my answer is probably more speculation than facts.

I shoot a lot more cast bullets every year than jacketed.

Most Rugers will shoot jacketed bullets well out of the box and some will also shoot cast bullets well. Some won’t.

Sometimes it is a dimensional issue that can be resolved by honing the chamber throats a bit or recutting the forcing cone.

Sometimes there’s nothing wrong dimensionally, but they still won’t shoot like they should.

In those cases you can often run 100 hot rounds (max load with H110 or 296) and a stout jacketed bullet and shooting the gun till it gets really hot can help.

I “think” this may iron out rough spots in the bore, but I don’t really know. I do know that it sometimes works when nothing else will.

[Chaser]

Got'cha. A good thing to remember.

Thanks!

[Scott Tschirhart]

The idea is not original to me. I saw an article that Brian wrote right after the Ruger factory.44 Special Blackhawks came out.

He started off shooting 100 rounds of the same load (240 gr XTP and 19 gr of H110) through his test gun before doing accuracy tests.