What causes shot out barrels?

[Old Time Hunter]

Ok guys, let's hear your input. Do you think it is the gasses? the lead? the copper jacket? Which one has the larger influence in wearing out the bore? Will wheel weight lead bullets have as much detriment to wear as regular 20-1 lead, how about vs. copper jacketed?

[Chuck 100 yd]

Heat and lack of proper cleaning. Low pressure lead bullet loads are very easy on a barrel.

[adirondakjack]

Throat erosion is due to gasses. The fire breathing magnums are rough on barrels. Prairie dog hunters will go through a barrel in a season, but they shoot LOTS of fast bullets.

If ya don't get em full of sand, I don't think rifles shot slow enough to use lead bullets ever shoot out. I have a .22 that is 42 years old, has been the family "basic trainer" for oodles of kids and untold rounds, and it will still light matches at 50 feet.

[Andrew]

Prairie dog hunters will go through a barrel in a season, but they shoot LOTS of fast bullets.

I couldn't even imagine.

[mescalero1]

What Adriondakjack said, I shot throats out of 3 .458 Win Mags in five years; but I shot a lot, and I was not paying for the ammo.
As it was, I ran all three of them longer than I should have.
But on all three, you could see accuracy deterioate with time & usage.

[Pisgah]

Barrels are ruined by all sorts of things. The friction of bullets certainly plays a role -- jacketed bullets more than cast. Improper or overzealous cleaning can ruin a barrel quickly, and letting a really fouled bore stay dirty for years can lead to pitting. Firing corrosive ammo without proper, prompt water-based cleaning is a way to ruin a barrel by Tuesday. Probably the most common form of barrel-ruining wear is throat erosion, and this is caused not only by high temperature, high pressure gases but also the particles that the gas carries. Modern smokeless powders are very efficient, but all of them leave some unburned particles that can be quite abrasive. Every shot acts like a hightemp/high pressure sandblasting on the throat of the barrel. There's no way to totally eliminate throat wear, short of not shooting the gun. But, even with high-intensity smallbore centerfires you can slow it down by cutting back just a bit on your loads.

[Kansas Ed]

Barrels are ruined by all sorts of things. The friction of bullets certainly plays a role -- jacketed bullets more than cast. Improper or overzealous cleaning can ruin a barrel quickly, and letting a really fouled bore stay dirty for years can lead to pitting. Firing corrosive ammo without proper, prompt water-based cleaning is a way to ruin a barrel by Tuesday. Probably the most common form of barrel-ruining wear is throat erosion, and this is caused not only by high temperature, high pressure gases but also the particles that the gas carries. Modern smokeless powders are very efficient, but all of them leave some unburned particles that can be quite abrasive. Every shot acts like a hightemp/high pressure sandblasting on the throat of the barrel. There's no way to totally eliminate throat wear, short of not shooting the gun. But, even with high-intensity smallbore centerfires you can slow it down by cutting back just a bit on your loads.

+1 with the addition that cartridges that are "overbore" to begin with are much more prone to the issue primarily due to the sheer quantity of unburned medium that passes the throat.

[TedH]

What Adriondakjack said, I shot throats out of 3 .458 Win Mags in five years; but I shot a lot, and I was not paying for the ammo.
As it was, I ran all three of them longer than I should have.
But on all three, you could see accuracy deterioate with time & usage.

You must have a shoulder like a tree stump to wear out three 458 Mags in five years!

[mescalero1]

Shooting jacket & a sandbag between my shoulder and the butt ALWAYS.
Have the pictures from a pro photographer, in full recoil.
I shot a lot, testing was done by shooting, mostly .458
At least once a week, during new product development , more often.
That was in the seveties, bullets came from Winchester, common freight carrier; no hazardous cargo charge back then.
The custodial crew hated me, they had to unload the trucks; and a case of .458 is HEAVY

[Blaine]

Shooting jacket & a sandbag between my shoulder and the butt ALWAYS.
Have the pictures from a pro photographer, in full recoil.
I shot a lot, testing was done by shooting, mostly .458
At least once a week, during new product development , more often.
That was in the seveties, bullets came from Winchester, common freight carrier; no hazardous cargo charge back then.
The custodial crew hated me, they had to unload the trucks; and a case of .458 is HEAVY

Ok...this story deserves it's own thread and pics and more story..... It would be mean not to.....

[Andrew]

Ok...this story deserves it's own thread and pics and more story..... It would be mean not to.....

Yeah.

[mescalero1]

ok, but I don't know how to scan the pictures & get them here.
I have read AmBraCol's advice on how to do it and have been unsuccessful.
I can get them into photobucket but then I get lost

[Rusty]

You and me both... I am digitally challenged.


I've seen 1911's shot out in 4-5,000 rounds, but that with a steady diet of hardball. IMHO I think it's the carbon and the copper jacket that does the damage.

Soft lead and bullet lube seems to lessen the effect.

I don't think that the same as throat erosion that seems to come from the high pressure varmint rifles.

[oldmax]

I had same photo bucket problem,
In Photobucket
Click on the writing " Image code " under the picture , It flashes yellow. ( copied )


Its now on your clipboard, Now " right click on forum thead in the area you want the picture
and click "PASTE" img text appears. , when 'submited' picture appears,

You can test with a " preview " before submiting....

Only took me 3 months to figure it out

Now Get with it , waiting for report ; give me 5

[mescalero1]

3 months?

[junkbug]

I wsh I remember where I read this, BUT:

Supposedly, Swedish ordinance workers were interested in this very thing. They divised a testing apparatus that would fire a standard service bullet out of a standard service barrel, using compressed gas. Therefore, there was no heat, or flame, only friction. They gave up after firing over 300,000 jacketed 6.5mm bullets, after repeatedly finding that the only wear was to burnish the inside of the bore to a higher polish. The removal of metal was too small to measure, with the equipment they had, at the time.

My personal belief is that gas cutting and/or just plain heat wear out the throat. Improper cleaning wears out the muzzles. Lands get rounded and worn down by repeated cycles of insufficient cleaning allowing rust to build, after which the the corrosion is removed by remedial cleaning with standard brushes and solvents, or just more shooting.

What does "Shot Out" really mean. I have seen dozens, if not hundreds of surplus firearms with some, most, or even all their lands completely worn away. Most of these gus were still funtional, and would be useful (although less so than when new) for self defense or hunting. If a Mauser rifle, or Winchester carbine can only group 12" at 25 yards, that is still 24 yards further away than most of us could kill a deer using just a knife.

[mescalero1]

Theroretically, I want to agree with junkbug, I think hot gas is a major contributor, I can remember ( 2 ) different .264 win mags, belonging to two different people, and both of them looked really bad in the throat area after a few years,, but that is personal observation. Not scientific

[Sixgun]

What Adriondakjack said, I shot throats out of 3 .458 Win Mags in five years; but I shot a lot, and I was not paying for the ammo.
As it was, I ran all three of them longer than I should have.
But on all three, you could see accuracy deterioate with time & usage.

You must have a shoulder like a tree stump to wear out three 458 Mags in five years!

Ted, you could not have said it better!

[Chuck 100 yd]

Lots of Benchrest shooters sell their "SHOT OUT" barrels to varmint hunters. Some BR shooters will go through 12-15 barrels a year searching for that "HUMMER BARREL" !!
http://www.benchrest.com/

It`s a matter of opinion weather a barrel is shot out or not.

[Hobie]

ok, but I don't know how to scan the pictures & get them here.
I have read AmBraCol's advice on how to do it and have been unsuccessful.
I can get them into photobucket but then I get lost

You give me your photobucket account name and I can get the pics here.

[jorgy]

I collect the old Marlin levers. I just cleaned one this afternoon a
1893 38/55 TD. The bore is mint in this gun & also it is pre special
smokeless steel being made in 1895. I estimate I probably shoot
500 rounds thru this gun every season. I use IMR3031 & a cast
bullet with a gas check. They are loaded to 30 grains & the bullet wt
is 265. I really like TD's because they are so much easier to clean.
I only used 10 patches & the bore was sparkling. I am a firm believer
in using cast bullets in the old Marlins. I often get lazy in cleaning my
guns but do it because it is a necessary chore. Old guns were ruined
from neglect. I see that all the time in collecting. If someone take
care of a gun right you can see it right away. I also believe in letting
my guns cool when shooting.

[piller]

I had a Marlin Glenfield 60 which shot at least a brick of bullets a week for 4 years, and I got it used. When I finally tried to shoot for accuracy again several years later and quit making it shoot 18 rounds in 2 to 3 seconds, it was keyholing at 25 yards. I cleaned it good and put it away. Paco's Acc'rzr (spelling?) finally made it shoot good enough to hunt squirrels again. After some range sessions, you could actually light a cigarette from the barrel. My guess is that the heat and gas erosion are the most damaging.

[scr83jp]

In the late 1970's we watched a former 1950 & 1951 National High Power Rifle Champion fire his Springfield 03 to qualify for an M1 Garand using 600yd simulator targets at a 100yd range .We watched him fire the course prone,standing,squatting in slow or rapidfire putting all shots in the bull or the edge of it.We asked him how many rounds he'd fired for practice & competition he estimated over 50,000,he said his rifle only had approx 6 inches of rifling left near the muzzle but it was absolutely accurate.I've read so much information about "shooting out a barrel " in a few thousand rounds which I don't believe but I'll always remember that high power shooter and his 03 and have told many about the man and his rifle.I doubt many have duplicated that fete or earned those titles!

[Charles]

Throat erosian is caused by hot gas under high pressure. Friction has zip to do with it. Cast bullet barrels last longer than jacketed because they work at lower pressure.