Rule of thumb?

[El Chivo]

After months of postponement, yesterday I sat down with the new Barnes bullets in 30-30 to get ready for condor season.

I found a load for the Barnes, but no OAL is specified. I tried a dummy in the rifle and closing the bolt pushed the bullet almost to the first cannelure. I didn't expect it to be so short, but the nose of the bullet is fairly big what with the expanding petals and all. I shortened my dummy a little more to stay off the lands (currently 2.515").

So, the bullet sticks 3-4mm deeper into the case than the equivalent lead bullet. Is there a rule of thumb about reducing the charge with the diminished case capacity?

For example, if you have a load for a 150 grainer but want to use a 170 gr bullet, is there a formula for estimating the charge reduction?

The load I have for Barnes and H4895 is from 29-33 grains with no OAL specified.

[Andrew]

Barnes should have specs for their products. I think.

[TedH]

If you don't have a Barnes manual, just call or email them with your question.

Here's some data from the Barnes manual. Doesn't show OAL though.

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/searc ... 4&sr=posts

[KWK]

I believe it was William Davis who recommended keeping the loading density the same when seating a bullet deeper. Some numbers I ran through the QuickLoad simulator suggest this is conservative.

The loading density is the charge weight divided by the net case capacity. Seating the bullet deeper means there's less net case capacity, and smaller cases need faster powders for like loading densities.

Unfortunately, all-copper bullets don't engrave the same as lead bullets, and this can have a drastic effect on pressures. Even among lead bullets, there can be big differences; Davis pointed this out in a separate article.

As the others here suggest, Barnes will likely have proper loading data for this bullet and case, and this should be more reliable than rules of thumb.

[NonPCnraRN]

Two rules of thumb:
1) Barnes all copper bullets are a class unto themselves and the best way to get info on reloading them is to buy their latest manual. They are longer than most bullets for any given weight or you must go to a lighter bullet to stay within the aol (bullet).
2) I learned this when transitioning from revolvers to semiautos. Never use a 2 handed grip with the thumb of the weak hand over the top of the strong hand when shooting a semiauto pistol. I was lucky and just had a nick of skin removed. Lucky or not, you will only do that once.

[El Chivo]

Ted H, thanks, I have that page in my loadbook. As you said, it doesn't contain an OAL.

I would think they would expect most people to seat the bullet to the first cannelure. I'll try e-mailing them.

[Hobie]

Please, let us know what they tell you.

[El Chivo]

I heard from Ty at Barnes today, he says for 30-30 to roll crimp into the first groove to prevent the bullets from being pushed in in the tubular magazine. That would give it a pretty short OAL, probably less than 2.50".

It sounds like the TSX bullet needs high velocities to work. I also asked him for hints on loading the 200 grain spire point for the 35 Remington, and he said they didn't develop any loads for it because the velocity is too slow to expand the bullet properly.

Darn, I already bought the bullets!

I could try the Barnes pistol bullets, there is a 140 grainer. But that would have a pretty poor BC compared to a 30-30 150 grain. Sigh.

Might be time to make my 35 Rem a silhouette gun.