Not all the firearms discussed here are leverguns....

wm · Post by wm » Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:47 pm

Not all the firearms discussed here are leverguns....but it occurs to me some could be called honorary leverguns because they embody that same spirit.

I would nominate the Krag Jorgenson.

What would you add to that list of honorary leverguns?

Wm (I am bored at work.....finally caught up)

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:11 pm

16x16/9.3x72R underlever Drilling.

Bridger158 · Post by **Bridger158** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:15 pm

I am surprised SHARPS wasn't the first on the list.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:27 pm

Falling blocks ARE levers. We've always counted them.

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:07 pm

I'd cast my vote for the Trap Door Springfield.

ernest haycox · Post by **ernest haycox** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:05 pm

Old pump rifles,for sure,especially since I have one on layaway.

Andrew · Post by **Andrew** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:38 pm

ernest haycox wrote:Old pump rifles,for sure,especially since I have one on layaway.

+1 on that. I would like to have one of those Uberti Lightning clones in .45LC.

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:43 pm

Certainly the Sharps, 1885 High/Low Walls and Ruger #1's. Also the Trapdoor Springfields as mentioned. While it may be a stretch, I would like to add any generation of SMLE as it is one of the all time great military rifles as well. Finally, while it may be a stretch, I'd like to add the 71/84 Mauser as it is a hybrid of a bolt gun action and a tubular magazine very similar to the Win '66. It is considered the "high water mark" of military craftmanship and has never been surpassed.

Just my crazy opinion!

-Tutt

P.S. And the Colt Lightning and copies as mentioned!

Old No7 · Post by **Old No7** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:29 pm

"Not all the firearms discussed here are leverguns...."

Yeah well, that's OK -- 'cause not all the jokes are funny!

Old No7

model55 · Post by **model55** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:34 pm

Martini Cadets

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:34 pm

Old No7 wrote:
"Not all the firearms discussed here are leverguns...."
Yeah well, that's OK -- 'cause not all the jokes are funny!
Old No7

Except mine!

Leverguns, yes; but not leveractions. On those mentioned, cycling the lever doesn't eject an empty and chamber the next cartridge; (I'd exclude the Jorgensen as I always thought it was a bolt).

slabsides · Post by **slabsides** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:05 pm

Shucks, I think there's plenty to talk about with the REAL leverguns that are so abundant. I wouldn't
go for 'honorary' status for any bolt rifle, nice as the Krag is, for example. I'd stretch a point to include
the Ruger #1 and similar drop-block single shots, and even the Civil War Spencer carbine. They, after
all, have an action actuated by a species of lever.
I have lots of guns with bolt actions, a couple of semi's, and several T/C's, that I'd call top-breaks, even
though the action has a sort of lever arrangement.
That's just my opinion, and my preference.
Guns I'd like to know more about...an acquaintance showed me his rifle on the one occasion I met him at
his home...a model 55 (?) Winchester. Variant of the 92, it looked like… chambered in .25-20. I'd never seen
or heard of the model and knew nothing of the round. We went outside and popped a few off. His stash was
pretty sparse, as he doesn't claim to be a hunter and only kept the pawn-shop acquisition as defense against
potential prowling things around his rural homestead. I offered him cash, trades, and stopped short of begging.
He likes the rifle too much. Still has it, far as I know. It was a take-down, by the way. Anyone else have experience
with this model/caliber???
PS: about the new format. Why? I was away for a while and apparently missed something.

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:15 pm

I'm a sucker for Rolling Blocks..They're accurate! 2 peice stocks with barrel bands too!

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:25 pm

slabsides wrote:Guns I'd like to know more about...an acquaintance showed me his rifle on the one occasion I met him at
his home...a model 55 (?) Winchester. Variant of the 92, it looked like… chambered in .25-20. I'd never seen
or heard of the model and knew nothing of the round. We went outside and popped a few off. His stash was
pretty sparse, as he doesn't claim to be a hunter and only kept the pawn-shop acquisition as defense against
potential prowling things around his rural homestead. I offered him cash, trades, and stopped short of begging.
He likes the rifle too much. Still has it, far as I know. It was a take-down, by the way. Anyone else have experience
with this model/caliber???

The mdl 53 was a variant of the mdl 92 during a time when Winchester was desiring to cut down the number of options available, allowing the most popular custom features their own model designation; the mdl 55 was a variation of the mdl 94; both have a half or "button" mag, round barrel, straight stock. I don't have my copy of Madis' The Winchester Book, so I might be confused, or to give more details on available calibers etc.

PS: about the new format. Why? I was away for a while and apparently missed something.

It was called an "update".

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:29 pm

Light, handy, accurate.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:29 pm

ernest haycox wrote:Old pump rifles,for sure,especially since I have one on layaway.

I'll go with that. I've got a Savage 170 .30-30 Pump on "delayed inherit"...

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:45 pm

it occurs to me some could be called honorary leverguns because they embody that same spirit.

From Griff:

Leverguns, yes; but not leveractions. On those mentioned, cycling the lever doesn't eject an empty and chamber the next cartridge

Griff and others, if you read the original quote above, he's suggesting that these rifles be included because of "spiritual merit", not mechanical similarity to a lever-action/lever-actuated semi-bolt gun!

The guns suggested have a significant world and/or U.S. history. If you want to exclude my German-made Mauser and O.S.'s synthetic abomination, so be it.

But the idea as proposed in the original post is not based upon mechanical engineering concepts.

-Tutt

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:55 pm

Wutt, Tutt? Abomination?????????

By the way, the 1909 7.65 Peruvian Mauser may the the finest of the miltary production.

And is the Sharps action not an action? And if not, what is it?

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:10 pm

Tutt/OS, I wasn't suggesting that we not discuss 'em; don't we "discuss anything, politely"? I was just defining MY interpretation of what is a "leveraction" vs. levergun. The Sharps, et al are definitely lever operated, but... not leveraction as I define 'em; which IIRC, I stole from JTaylor. And in said definition, the 88s, 99s and BLRs are "LEVERACTIONS" and are to be admired and ogled at every opportunity; not to mention fondled! The fact that I don't own any is simply attributed to the fact that I not only LOVE the Winchester 94, I LUST after just about every one I've found available and some that aren't! (And can therefore not afford other versions that don't rock my boat!)

What I was tryin' to say, unsuccessfully, due to being a little too oblique; we don't need no stinkin' "honorary leverguns" as we'll "discuss anything, politely". Just look at the number of topics devoted to SA revolvers!

And, I have a similar "abomination" or two, in my safe and LOVE them. They happen to be tools and do their job wonderfully!

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:30 pm

Tutt likes to pull my leg when he can and that is fine. He has assembled one of the most eclectic batteries I have seen.

On the Sharps - I'm with Matthew Quigley "breech loading lever action" but Griff, you and Hobie are welcome to the otherside of the fence on this and if I could I would set you up some lawn chairs and bring you a cold brew. Come to think of it, you guys drop by and I'll bring you fellows a cold brew .... or two on the veranda - 102 today. Tutt can attest to the hospitality. My but he likes that rifle!

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:35 pm

I'll bring my own lawnchair so's to not take someone else's seat. I was hoping to get out that way, but... I'm now on my way to Atlanta, then on to Laredo. When I get there, I get a choice of available freight; if they have something to Lancaster, I'm on my way! Get that beer on ice!

t.r. · Post by **t.r.** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:39 pm

I like Remington pumps quite a bit. Mostly because they're so different than rest of the pack + they shoot so amazingly accurate. This older 760 is chambered for my favorite antelope cartridge: .243 Winchester.
TR

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:44 pm

wm wrote: Wm (I am bored at work.....finally caught up)

I don't know what that feels like - never experienced it firsthand (being bored at work and especially not being "caught up"!

) Is it as sweet as it sounds?

In my minds eye, when one says leverguns, I instantly think of the classic configuration and the old American west. I'd group most firearms from about 1836 (the introduction of the Paterson revolver) through the turn of the century in that "winning the frontier" category. They all give me the warm and fuzzies!!!

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:52 pm

Griff, I can't argue with you on the fact that anything here is open to discussion under the O.T. rules. No problem there. Just trying to be true to the purpose of the originator of this thread. O.S., I'm sure its a very accurate gun, but assuming its the Rem 700 I think it is, it's a modification of the original '98 Mauser design, but not an improvement. And, yeah, I detest synthetic stocks for the most part. A personal prejudice of mine. Its certainly discussuble under the OT rules, but not a levergun, lever-action, or even "honorary levergun" by any stretch. No wood, no deal!!!!

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it! But feel free to disagree!

-Tutt

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:18 pm

Wow, someone just hit the "default" button! Now everything is on the left! I'm dizzy!

-Tutt

runfiverun · Post by **runfiverun** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:35 pm

how can you discuss lever-actions and not include six-guns???
they are either left-hand,right-hand items.
or complimentary companion pieces..
I.M.O. if a picture doesn't include both a lever and a revolver it
shold be removed...
sept maybe of a model 71....[and it better be a really nice one ]

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:52 pm

What is your fav there Griff?

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 11:59 pm

Tutt, it handles like a lever gun - with a scope of course!

And actually the Savage bolts and the Remingtons are a new idea in that they are a tube screwed into a tube that use a recoil lug screwed in between. Cheaper to make and easier to align the barrel to the receiver, an Ameican innovation. Both are more consistently accurate out of the box than Winchesters or Rugers which are really more Mauser derivatives.

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:21 am

Tutt, it handles like a lever gun - with a scope of course!

O.S., you just like to "stir the pot" and be controversial nowendays, don't ya??? Could I interest you in a long range '94??

Cheaper to make

Bingo! Cheaper, but not better, not more accurate and not stronger.

The Defense rests.

-Tutt

Post by **Old Savage** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:43 am

They are both more accurate and stronger. Who knows, they are all strong enough. Stating technically correct information is not stirring the pot. I do have a long range 94 but it has no scope or provision for mounting one so I can't see what I am shooting at at long range or be sure of the results.

Post by **Old Savage** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:45 am

And Old 3120 - these are discussions.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:17 am

H & R single shots

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:02 am

OS, Rocky Mountain Kool-Aid, the lite variety!

Tutt, I gotta agree w/OS. There's more than their price that goes into their selection as a premier military & police sniper rifle. I believe Fred nailed it when he said, "Both are more consistently accurate out of the box than Winchesters or Rugers which are really more Mauser derivatives." And, I think it takes less effort to make 'em sub-moa guns, leastways that's been ny experience w/700s.

Dastook · Post by **Dastook** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:08 am

Rugar #1. Hey, it has a lever.

NonPCnraRN · Post by **NonPCnraRN** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:20 am

Abomination.......Obama Nation...... formerly the USA!

wm · Post by wm » Wed Jun 18, 2008 11:10 am

I guess I inadvertently tripped some folks up with this.....when I think of a 'levergun' I think of the uniquely American firearm that is practical in its utility, simple, reliable, & handy.

Or as my Dad used to say 'Enough gun if you are enough of a hunter'.

The H&R Single Shots, Remington pump action rifles, Krag sporter/carbine, and even the Ruger Black Hawk I think are great examples of that spirit.

Wm

oldmax · Post by **oldmax** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:16 pm

deleted, I am now a reformed Levergunner !!!!!

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:53 pm

I HEARTEDLY DISAGREE WITH ALMOST ALL THAT HAS BEEN STATED TO DATE ON THIS TOPIC. THIS IS THE LEVERGUNS SITE. IF YOU DO NOT--NOT!!--KNOW WHAT THE WORD " LEVERGUNS " MEANS LOOK AT THE SYMBAL ABOVE. IF OPERATING THE LEVER DOES NOT TOSS OUT THE EMPTY AND FEED A NEW CARTRIDGE INTO THE CHAMBER IT IS NOT--NOT!! A LEVERGUN AS THIS SITE WAS SET UP TO DISCUSS.
THIS WAS A MARVELOUS PLACE TO DISCUSS LEVERGUNS IN ALL THEIR PERMUTATIONS UNTIL THE FIRST MARLINTALK SITE WENT MAMMARIES UP AND ALL OF THOSE FOOLS AND NINNIES CAME OVER HERE AND TRASHED UP THIS SITE EXACTLY AS THEY HAD DONE TO THE MARLINTALK SITE.
NOW WE HAVE ALL THE 'OT ' stuff TAKING UP MOST OF THE DAILY BANDWIDTH HERE AND FOR SOME REASON YOU PEOPLE THINK YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO TRASH UP JIM AND PACO'S SITE WITH ALL THAT stuff. IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO SAY ABOUT LEVERGUNS GO ELSE WHERE WITH YOUR SILLY LADIES SEWING CIRCLE GOSSIP.

wm · Post by wm » Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:44 pm

Clear enough Mr Murbach.......

I don't care for the tone of your comments but since you have been friends of Jim Taylor & Paco Kelly for so many years I will assume you can speak for them and I will excuse myself.

Wm

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:56 pm

O.S. and Griff, Mic was the one who told me that the Mauser action had not been improved upon, so I've asked him for some clarification on that. Perhaps I am way off base here.

Terry, I'm sure we all know what a true levergun is; were just foolin' about here and looking for excuses to discuss other firearms, I guess.

You sure don't sound very happy with what has happened to the forum. If the Jim T. or Paco wish to change things and make new "house rules", they have but to do so and we will follow their lead.

Version 2 of our forum was a pretty rough place, but things here are generally going better.

Terry, I hope you will continue to post here from time to time.

-Tutt

oldmax · Post by **oldmax** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 6:15 am

Terry Murbach: Thanks to you I am REFORMED, I shalt not sin again..

Post by **Old Savage** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:47 pm

I'll still go by Paco's standard - it is after all his forum. Anyone who wants to promulgate a separate standard should also just start their own forum.

mtngunr · Post by **mtngunr** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:33 pm

Actually, Terry, Wm. is an old poster from back in the sixguns/sixgunner days, when those places were inhabited by gentlemen and you would let the wife or kids read the boards freely....before the foul-mouthed crude bigots and self-promoting hucksters moved in, before you guys pulled up your tent pegs and let Joel wreck the site....guess Wm. and I will just continue our talk of B53's, M39's, and Marlin 35 Remingtons elsewhere, as well as praise Wm.'s Savage 99.....a simple stay-on-topic reminder would have sufficed, and looking over the index, this place has been off-topic for a very long time.....

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:46 pm

We'd hate to see you go as we'd like to be on topic as much as possible. I think many talk about other things for knowing so little about the leverguns.

We used to have members who shot the Evans and Burgess guns. I'd love to hear from them again. We also have/had a member who was a Whitney/Kennedy fan. He never posted enough of what he knew, not for me anyway.

Again, hope you'll stay.