Velocity fo HSM 38 special RNFP when shot from Rossi 92 Carbine ??

[bcraig]

Has anyone chronographed HSM 38 special Factory Cowboy RNFP Lead ammunition when Shot from a Rossi 92 with 16 inch barrel to see how much velocity gain there is compared to the Listed velocity for a pistol length barrel ?

Thanks

[bcraig]

I called them today and the guy I talked with did not know the velocity either but did say the brinnel hardness was 15

[Ray]

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/pr ... ctId/27275

https://www.selwayarmory.com/hsm-38-spe ... of-50.html

[bcraig]

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/pr ... ctId/27275

I am not going to buy a chronograph just for chronographing one brand of ammo, other than wanting to know the velocity for that Particular Ammo I neither Have nor Need a Chronagraph.

https://www.selwayarmory.com/hsm-38-spe ... of-50.html

My question was what the velocity for the ammo shot from the 16 inch barrel of a Rossi 92 and not the advertised velocity from a 5 inch barrel using Titegroup powder .

[samsi]

Closest I can give you is a 158LRN over 3.5 Bullseye. 780 f/s from a Model 14 (6"), 990 from an 18" Marlin.

[bcraig]

Closest I can give you is a 158LRN over 3.5 Bullseye. 780 f/s from a Model 14 (6"), 990 from an 18" Marlin.

All I know about this ammo is it uses Titegroup Powder supposedly chrongraphs at 840 fps from a 5 inch barrel and uses a 158 grain RNFP bullet Brinnel Hardness.

Supposedly it is only a little slower burn rate than Bullseye on the Hodgons burn chart and only seperated by alliant sport pistol ,so do you think that seeing as how the barrel lengths on your
Rifle and my Rifle and Your Pistol and HSM pistol with a 5 inch barrel ,
that maybe it is possible to interpolate that the change between the Pistol and Carbine would be close?

So that going from 780 fps in your Pistol to 990 fps in your Rifle represents a change of 210 fps.
And if applied to the HSM ammo would represent the same difference of approx 210 fps .

If so ,then to add 210 fps to the Velocity of the HSM AMMo of 840 fps which equals 1050 which is still below the speed of sound.

What do you think?
https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... -chart.pdf

By the way ,Thanks for your information

[Grizz]

I'm curious about what you are interested in? It doesn't matter what a load does in anyone else's gun, it only matters what it does coming out of your gun.

May I suggest you just go shoot it at fire wood and jugs of water and buckets of gravel and sacks of sand, and find out for yourself what your bullets do coming out of your gun? Velocity is an entirely different thing than penetration, of which you can have too little, and too much.

Hope this idea helps you get some real world results that are satisfying and dependable . . . . .

I know someone who was shot multiple times at close range by several 357s and a 12Ga shotgun, all purported to be the cat's butt for deadly assaults, but he survived all that. None of the ballistic data killed him.

grizz sends

[Bronco]

Depends on the load as to what will happen.
Here is an interesting fact!

I reload my own! I was playing with 44 mag cases and cat sneeze loads. I was using a 300grgc LFN with 5,5grs of WST powder. The velocity out of my 7.5" Redhawk was about 750fps and out of my 24" barreled Marlin was, wait for it, was 750 fps. I know the cartridge is different but the principle is the same for a 357. On the low end, velocity wise, might I suggest some Cowboy loads for you to start testing.

Like Grizz said, until you shoot them in your rifles you can only conjecture. Buy some ammo and save the cases in case you want to reload in the future.

I am looking forward to a range report and hopefully some pictures of the targets.

[COSteve]

I load .357mag for my Uberti SA 7.5" pistol as well as for my 20" carbine and 24" rifle using TiteGroup, Unique and Lil'Gun. The velocity results in the different platforms are not linear between the powders. Why? TiteGroup, like Unique is a fast burning powder developed for pistol length barreled arms. As such, it doesn't gain much benefit from being shot from a long barrel. While Lil'Gun was developed for use in a 410 shotgun so it's performance was biased for a long barrel.

For instance, my medium load .357 mag for my pistol with 158grn plated bullets and loaded with TiteGroup or Unique produce the same velocity in my 20" carbine and are slower in my 24" rifle. The fast burning, pistol powders like TiteGroup and Unique don't produce the gas volume to keep accelerating the bullet in a longer barrel.

Contrast that with my medium load .357 mag for my pistol with 158grn plated bullets and loaded with Lil'Gun produce higher velocities in my 20" carbine and even a higher velocity in my 24" rifle. Lil'Gun is a slower burning powder with a slightly larger charge weight so it evidently produces enough gas to continue to accelerate the bullet in the longer barrel.

Bottom line, if you want to know what a given ammo type is going to produce out of your 16" trapper, you're going to have to chrono it in your trapper and find out for yourself because as stated above, performance will vary from component to component and rifle to rifle.

[bcraig]

I'm curious about what you are interested in? It doesn't matter what a load does in anyone else's gun, it only matters what it does coming out of your gun.

May I suggest you just go shoot it at fire wood and jugs of water and buckets of gravel and sacks of sand, and find out for yourself what your bullets do coming out of your gun? Velocity is an entirely different thing than penetration, of which you can have too little, and too much.

Hope this idea helps you get some real world results that are satisfying and dependable . . . . .

I know someone who was shot multiple times at close range by several 357s and a 12Ga shotgun, all purported to be the cat's butt for deadly assaults, but he survived all that. None of the ballistic data killed him.

grizz sends

I am interested in the best feeding through the Rossi and from what I have read the RNFP bullet gives the best chance to get this.

I am also interested In safe operation in the Tubular magazine and again from what I read, although other styles of bullets may be safe,that the RNFP is thought to be one of the best from that perspective.

The reason that I am interested in the Velocity from anothers gun is I am wanting to stay below the speed of sound to be a little easier on the ears.
And if the ammo shot from anothers gun showed the velocity of say 1050 when shot from their rossi 92 then that might give me at least some idea that it would be subsonic from mine.

Thanks

[bcraig]

Depends on the load as to what will happen.
Here is an interesting fact!

I reload my own! I was playing with 44 mag cases and cat sneeze loads. I was using a 300grgc LFN with 5,5grs of WST powder. The velocity out of my 7.5" Redhawk was about 750fps and out of my 24" barreled Marlin was, wait for it, was 750 fps. I know the cartridge is different but the principle is the same for a 357. On the low end, velocity wise, might I suggest some Cowboy loads for you to start testing.

Like Grizz said, until you shoot them in your rifles you can only conjecture. Buy some ammo and save the cases in case you want to reload in the future.

I am looking forward to a range report and hopefully some pictures of the targets.

Thanks

[bcraig]

I load .357mag for my Uberti SA 7.5" pistol as well as for my 20" carbine and 24" rifle using TiteGroup, Unique and Lil'Gun. The velocity results in the different platforms are not linear between the powders. Why? TiteGroup, like Unique is a fast burning powder developed for pistol length barreled arms. As such, it doesn't gain much benefit from being shot from a long barrel. While Lil'Gun was developed for use in a 410 shotgun so it's performance was biased for a long barrel.

For instance, my medium load .357 mag for my pistol with 158grn plated bullets and loaded with TiteGroup or Unique produce the same velocity in my 20" carbine and are slower in my 24" rifle. The fast burning, pistol powders like TiteGroup and Unique don't produce the gas volume to keep accelerating the bullet in a longer barrel.

Contrast that with my medium load .357 mag for my pistol with 158grn plated bullets and loaded with Lil'Gun produce higher velocities in my 20" carbine and even a higher velocity in my 24" rifle. Lil'Gun is a slower burning powder with a slightly larger charge weight so it evidently produces enough gas to continue to accelerate the bullet in the longer barrel.

Bottom line, if you want to know what a given ammo type is going to produce out of your 16" trapper, you're going to have to chrono it in your trapper and find out for yourself because as stated above, performance will vary from component to component and rifle to rifle.

And that is why I wanted to know if anyone had Chronographed the load in their Rossi 92 with a 16 inch barrel as I do not have a chronograph.
Thanks

[COSteve]

Their load in their Rossi won't necessarily translate to your load in your Rossi. That was my point. However, the same ammo in the same make could get you close.

[bcraig]

Their load in their Rossi won't necessarily translate to your load in your Rossi. That was my point. However, the same ammo in the same make could get you close.

Yes ,I get your point

Thanks

[mickbr]

I also chase low velocities in 44 and formerly 357 magnum carbines for low noise. Light loads of fast burning powders I found 150-200fps was typical going from pistol to the carbine barrel . One surprise was the Remington UMC 38+P 125 SJHP which runs about 950fps from a pistol but chronied at just under 1300fps from a carbine. Pulled a bullet and the charge was only 6.5 grains which was unexpectedly light for a 350 fps increase. Id like to chrony it again some time to recheck.

My vote for a subsonic hunting bullet in 357 is the 158xtp hollowpoint. Despite being one of their heavier and deep penetrating offerings it has the advantage of a nose cavity that also expands earlier for some reason than the 110,125, 140xtp bullets. Not sure whether this difference is deliberately engineered but its very handy as between 1000-1100fps the 158 grain will reach a modest 50cal expansion where the other bullets do not. Its not lights out zap type killing, nor would you use it on big game. But for medium game it works if you place it right.

[bcraig]

I also chase low velocities in 44 and formerly 357 magnum carbines for low noise. Light loads of fast burning powders I found 150-200fps was typical going from pistol to the carbine barrel . One surprise was the Remington UMC 38+P 125 SJHP which runs about 950fps from a pistol but chronied at just under 1300fps from a carbine. Pulled a bullet and the charge was only 6.5 grains which was unexpectedly light for a 350 fps increase. Id like to chrony it again some time to recheck.

My vote for a subsonic hunting bullet in 357 is the 158xtp hollowpoint. Despite being one of their heavier and deep penetrating offerings it has the advantage of a nose cavity that also expands earlier for some reason than the 110,125, 140xtp bullets. Not sure whether this difference is deliberately engineered but its very handy as between 1000-1100fps the 158 grain will reach a modest 50cal expansion where the other bullets do not. Its not lights out zap type killing, nor would you use it on big game. But for medium game it works if you place it right.

With this particular ammo IF it will only gain from 150 to 200 that would still be subsonic which would be ok.

Thanks