SPECIAL .44 Specials
Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
SPECIAL .44 Specials
Today my mind was wandering around the aisles of shooting and ballistic jumble in my head and I suddenly had a urge to test something. I went to the shop and got out my Browne & Sharpe Dial Caliper, grabbed some fired .40 S&W cartridges and began measuring them at the web, just north of the extractor groove. Hmmm.... .425" to .427" on the ones I measured. I weighed the rascals and they varied between 68 and 70 grains.
This might work! I thought.
So I primed some .44 Special cases that had been sized, deprimed and neck expanded.
I started with 5.0 gr. of Bullseye, then shoved the .40 S&W cartridge into the .44 Special cartridge and crimped it in place.
Next I folded up some heavy white bath towels. These were from the rental property but were no longer serviceable and were give to me to use as shop rags. I folded them and stacked them against a heavy board. There was about 16" of cloth. The board was "just in case."
Then, from about 12 inches away I fired into the cloth, then recovered the projectile and did it all again but this time with 6.0 gr. of Bullseye. The 5 gr. load penetrated a foot of cloth. The 6 gr. load went several inches further. A little more and it would have exited the cloth. Which is why I had the board there.
On the 6 gr. load, the .40 S&W case was against the powder charge.
Now i am gonna have to load some of these and take them to the Range and try them at various distances out to 20 or 25 yards. Being so light they will lose velocity very rapidly.
I am sure someone else - perhaps someone on this Forum - has tried this before. I used to do such things in the .475 Linebaugh using .45 ACP cases. We got them up over 2000 fps and were accurate enough to take down the chicken targets on the handgun silhouette range.
We shall see if the .40's work in the .44 Special. They are perfect size for the .44-40 ...... just sayin' .........
This might work! I thought.
So I primed some .44 Special cases that had been sized, deprimed and neck expanded.
I started with 5.0 gr. of Bullseye, then shoved the .40 S&W cartridge into the .44 Special cartridge and crimped it in place.
Next I folded up some heavy white bath towels. These were from the rental property but were no longer serviceable and were give to me to use as shop rags. I folded them and stacked them against a heavy board. There was about 16" of cloth. The board was "just in case."
Then, from about 12 inches away I fired into the cloth, then recovered the projectile and did it all again but this time with 6.0 gr. of Bullseye. The 5 gr. load penetrated a foot of cloth. The 6 gr. load went several inches further. A little more and it would have exited the cloth. Which is why I had the board there.
On the 6 gr. load, the .40 S&W case was against the powder charge.
Now i am gonna have to load some of these and take them to the Range and try them at various distances out to 20 or 25 yards. Being so light they will lose velocity very rapidly.
I am sure someone else - perhaps someone on this Forum - has tried this before. I used to do such things in the .475 Linebaugh using .45 ACP cases. We got them up over 2000 fps and were accurate enough to take down the chicken targets on the handgun silhouette range.
We shall see if the .40's work in the .44 Special. They are perfect size for the .44-40 ...... just sayin' .........
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Re: SPECIAL .44 Specials
Now thats a pretty slick Idea ,never heard of that beforeJimT wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2023 7:50 pm Today my mind was wandering around the aisles of shooting and ballistic jumble in my head and I suddenly had a urge to test something. I went to the shop and got out my Browne & Sharpe Dial Caliper, grabbed some fired .40 S&W cartridges and began measuring them at the web, just north of the extractor groove. Hmmm.... .425" to .427" on the ones I measured. I weighed the rascals and they varied between 68 and 70 grains.
This might work! I thought.
So I primed some .44 Special cases that had been sized, deprimed and neck expanded.
I started with 5.0 gr. of Bullseye, then shoved the .40 S&W cartridge into the .44 Special cartridge and crimped it in place.
1-44 special -40.JPG
Next I folded up some heavy white bath towels. These were from the rental property but were no longer serviceable and were give to me to use as shop rags. I folded them and stacked them against a heavy board. There was about 16" of cloth. The board was "just in case."
2-44 special -40.JPG
Then, from about 12 inches away I fired into the cloth, then recovered the projectile and did it all again but this time with 6.0 gr. of Bullseye. The 5 gr. load penetrated a foot of cloth. The 6 gr. load went several inches further. A little more and it would have exited the cloth. Which is why I had the board there.
3-44 special -40.JPG
On the 6 gr. load, the .40 S&W case was against the powder charge.
Now i am gonna have to load some of these and take them to the Range and try them at various distances out to 20 or 25 yards. Being so light they will lose velocity very rapidly.
I am sure someone else - perhaps someone on this Forum - has tried this before. I used to do such things in the .475 Linebaugh using .45 ACP cases. We got them up over 2000 fps and were accurate enough to take down the chicken targets on the handgun silhouette range.
We shall see if the .40's work in the .44 Special. They are perfect size for the .44-40 ...... just sayin' .........
Re: SPECIAL .44 Specials
For years people been doing stuff like this EXCEPT they filled the fired cartridge with lead, making their own jacketed bullets. I started doing it in the .475 using .45 ACP cartridges just because they fit... but I did not put lead in them. I just shot them empty for a lightweight short range load.
Re: SPECIAL .44 Specials
Thanks for the pics and informationJimT wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2023 7:59 pmFor years people been doing stuff like this EXCEPT they filled the fired cartridge with lead, making their own jacketed bullets. I started doing it in the .475 using .45 ACP cartridges just because they fit... but I did not put lead in them. I just shot them empty for a lightweight short range load.
- GunnyMack
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 10261
- Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:57 am
- Location: Not where I want to be!
Re: SPECIAL .44 Specials
In another post I replied that I have filled a 9mm case then soldered it inside a 40 to make .44 solids. Never shot a lot of these but they worked fine.
BROWN LABS MATTER !!
- Ysabel Kid
- Moderator
- Posts: 27918
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:10 pm
- Location: South Carolina, USA
- Contact:
Re: SPECIAL .44 Specials
I must admit, that had never occurred to me! So, when you did this before, did it effect the rifling in any way? I would think the brass is a bit softer than a copper jacket, so I don't see why it would.
Re: SPECIAL .44 Specials
Shot slow they sometimes cleaned a leaded barrel ... not always.Ysabel Kid wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2023 8:11 pm I must admit, that had never occurred to me! So, when you did this before, did it effect the rifling in any way? I would think the brass is a bit softer than a copper jacket, so I don't see why it would.
Re: SPECIAL .44 Specials
I figured there were others who tried similar things. There's too many of us who bravely go where no man has gone before and find that sometimes the crazy idea we had actually worked!
- Ysabel Kid
- Moderator
- Posts: 27918
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:10 pm
- Location: South Carolina, USA
- Contact:
Re: SPECIAL .44 Specials
Well I do have plenty of range-scrounged .40 brass...JimT wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2023 8:18 pmShot slow they sometimes cleaned a leaded barrel ... not always.Ysabel Kid wrote: ↑Sun Jun 25, 2023 8:11 pm I must admit, that had never occurred to me! So, when you did this before, did it effect the rifling in any way? I would think the brass is a bit softer than a copper jacket, so I don't see why it would.
Re: SPECIAL .44 Specials
I've been doing this for nigh-on four decades but only about 20 years with the .40. If a full poured lead wadcutter is too heavy you can fill the case with hot glue, epoxy, caulking, r.t.v., cotton ball (tightly packed and wetted with elmers), drywall mud, etc. One of your navy balls dropped-in then covered with hot glue might work as well. A single wrap of masking tape will fatten the o.d. and give you .430" or thereabouts.
Fine shot layered with modeling glue will make the whole 25% lighter than the full poured wadcutter but the fumes of the modeling glue can be the gateway inhalent to permanent marker wafting everytime the grand-imps are not looking.
Fine shot layered with modeling glue will make the whole 25% lighter than the full poured wadcutter but the fumes of the modeling glue can be the gateway inhalent to permanent marker wafting everytime the grand-imps are not looking.
m.A.g.a. !
Re: SPECIAL .44 Specials
Thanks Ray. You reinforce my belief in those of us who travel the less known roads.
- GunnyMack
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 10261
- Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:57 am
- Location: Not where I want to be!
Re: SPECIAL .44 Specials
I kind of stumbled upon this, set up one day to load 44s and I couldn't get a case to deprime when I realized a 40 case was inside and that's when the light bulb lit up! Of course this was around the one and only time I was going hog hunting and thought a solid might be a good choice. I took a huge hog with a 300gf XTP from my 44 carbine, 1 through the bag pipes , it never flinched or reacted walked 15 yards and fell over drt. That XTP expanded to about .75"
BROWN LABS MATTER !!
- Rimfire McNutjob
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 3167
- Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:51 pm
- Location: Sanford, FL.
Re: SPECIAL .44 Specials
This ... this might be a sign of too much spare time. This is the nooks and crannies of the gun world.
... I love poetry, long walks on the beach, and poking dead things with a stick.
- GunnyMack
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 10261
- Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:57 am
- Location: Not where I want to be!
Re: SPECIAL .44 Specials
May be nooks and crannies but I can see where our forefathers had the same spark of an idea when they devised the jacketed bullet.
BROWN LABS MATTER !!
Re: SPECIAL .44 Specials
Ideas might not always take over, but that is no reason to stop searching. I wonder if it might be useful in case of another severe shortage. Maybe it is something to keep in the back of our toolkits.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
- AJMD429
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 32276
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
- Location: Hoosierland
- Contact:
Re: SPECIAL .44 Specials
.
For some reason that post came up, partway scrolled on my screen, so I couldn’t see the author, but as soon as I read it, I knew who it was from…!
JimT knows how to have FUN…!!!
For some reason that post came up, partway scrolled on my screen, so I couldn’t see the author, but as soon as I read it, I knew who it was from…!
JimT knows how to have FUN…!!!
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
- Rimfire McNutjob
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 3167
- Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:51 pm
- Location: Sanford, FL.
Re: SPECIAL .44 Specials
I suppose that's true. I'm guilty as well ... pulling bullets and powder from 5mm Remington Rimfire Magnums and replacing and re-crimping ... looking for that extra oomph.
... I love poetry, long walks on the beach, and poking dead things with a stick.
- GunnyMack
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 10261
- Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:57 am
- Location: Not where I want to be!
Re: SPECIAL .44 Specials
Yeah, the 5mm is another one I would like to mess with, would have been great if it was centerfire but we already have the 22 hornet so ...
BROWN LABS MATTER !!
- Rimfire McNutjob
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 3167
- Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 2:51 pm
- Location: Sanford, FL.
Re: SPECIAL .44 Specials
I wonder if Jim's experiment is related to how jacketed bullets got their start as @GunnyMack suggests. I seem to recall someone making jackets from spent .22 rimfire rounds but it's been so long I don't remember where I read about it. It seems plausible that this type of experiment is how they could have gotten their start. Or maybe by that time artillery shells were already jacketed and that just made its way down to small arms.
... I love poetry, long walks on the beach, and poking dead things with a stick.
Re: SPECIAL .44 Specials
CCI began with making jackets using fired .22 Long Rifle cartridges.Rimfire McNutjob wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2023 1:13 pm I wonder if Jim's experiment is related to how jacketed bullets got their start as @GunnyMack suggests. I seem to recall someone making jackets from spent .22 rimfire rounds but it's been so long I don't remember where I read about it. It seems plausible that this type of experiment is how they could have gotten their start. Or maybe by that time artillery shells were already jacketed and that just made its way down to small arms.
Vernon Speer made these .. from Speer Manual #8
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
- GunnyMack
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 10261
- Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:57 am
- Location: Not where I want to be!
Re: SPECIAL .44 Specials
Thanks Jim I knew someone was doing that but couldn't remember who!
.243 jackets right?
.243 jackets right?
BROWN LABS MATTER !!
- Sixgun
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 18763
- Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:17 pm
- Location: S.E. Pa. Where The Finest Winchesters & Colts Reside
Re: SPECIAL .44 Specials
Frank Marshall of cast bullet fame wrote it was common practice back in the 20’s and 30’s to use fired cases filled with lead to make solids and or jacketed bullets to be fired in another larger cartridge……I have the story somewhere where his uncle made solids for a 45-90 and shot a polar bear with it….
Hey…..maybe leave the primer half seated and insert the case head forward.
Frank also said they routinely drilled out bullets to insert a loaded 22 round backwards and shot rocks just for poops and giggles.
OK, take a 10mm empty, drill out the primer pocket to insert a .22 case with the bullet pulled out……jam as much b.p. in the case as possible and insert a properly fitted gas check to the open end of the case….epoxy it up good….load about 5 grains of bullseye as the main propellant and put the whole shabang in a Ruger single action and shoot a cinder block……
No…no…..forget it…….I’ve stayed mostly lawfull for 68 years….these things may be illegal……and self destructive……
Hey…..maybe leave the primer half seated and insert the case head forward.
Frank also said they routinely drilled out bullets to insert a loaded 22 round backwards and shot rocks just for poops and giggles.
OK, take a 10mm empty, drill out the primer pocket to insert a .22 case with the bullet pulled out……jam as much b.p. in the case as possible and insert a properly fitted gas check to the open end of the case….epoxy it up good….load about 5 grains of bullseye as the main propellant and put the whole shabang in a Ruger single action and shoot a cinder block……
No…no…..forget it…….I’ve stayed mostly lawfull for 68 years….these things may be illegal……and self destructive……
Re: SPECIAL .44 Specials
I like the word "MOSTLY" .....
- Sixgun
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 18763
- Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:17 pm
- Location: S.E. Pa. Where The Finest Winchesters & Colts Reside
Re: SPECIAL .44 Specials
Ya like that Jim? . For some reason I knew you would pick that out……..for real there’s not a person on the board where “mostly” does not fit into their life…..it just depends of the level of “mostly” that’s concerning.
Now, if you’ll excuse me, I’m loading 45-90’s with bullets drilled out to accept nitro glycerin……I have to keep all air space out so it won’t blow when rattling in my pocket. I do this by pounding a drill bit shank into the pre drilled hole…getting ready for my first one….
Re: SPECIAL .44 Specials
We would love to have a video of the process Six!
As to "mostly" I would have to change that to "occasionally" when talking about myself.
As to "mostly" I would have to change that to "occasionally" when talking about myself.
Re: SPECIAL .44 Specials
Kewl imaginative minds you all got there !
Funny how some of what you mentioned reminds me of my thinking when I was just a pup! NOT that I ever followed through with my ideas
Funny how some of what you mentioned reminds me of my thinking when I was just a pup! NOT that I ever followed through with my ideas
Gettin old ain't for sissies!
There just has to be dogs in heaven !
There just has to be dogs in heaven !
- Sixgun
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 18763
- Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:17 pm
- Location: S.E. Pa. Where The Finest Winchesters & Colts Reside
Re: SPECIAL .44 Specials
In your book, you said to “use your imagination” as to which stories are true and which are fiction……I personally think they all are true, knowing the time and area you and pops lived in and the accepted level of “frontier justice” which prevailed. Really good book, there’s only a couple more I have to read.
Dang, I had a mess today. On the first hit with the 32 oz. ball peen hammer I got kilt!!!!!
Re: SPECIAL .44 Specials
We only confess the truth to Papa God ... no one else.
- Scott Tschirhart
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 4077
- Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:56 pm
- Location: San Antonio, Texas
Re: SPECIAL .44 Specials
That’s where innovation comes from.Rimfire McNutjob wrote: ↑Mon Jun 26, 2023 2:39 pm This ... this might be a sign of too much spare time. This is the nooks and crannies of the gun world.
Re: SPECIAL .44 Specials
Me, too.Thanks Jim I knew someone was doing that but couldn't remember who!
-Stretch