45 Colt Load Data

[oldmax]

What do you think of the data from 'Realguns.com'

http://www.realguns.com/loads/45coltr.htm

The data seems to be a lot hotter than other published data I have found...
Note the Hornady 250 grain and 27.0 grains of H110
Any comments ,

[cnjarvis]

Based on the load data I have from Hodgdon with H10 and Hornady's 240 gr. xtp mag and 250 gr. xtp, the data listed for H110/W296 looks OK.

I'm using a 240 gr. xtp mag over 27.5 gr. H110 for about 1900 fps in my Win. M94 with a 20" bbl.

[AndyM]

I think in general thier data is ok - I would always cross ref. with a published industry loading books from one of the major companies out there and always remember to treat each gun as a law upon itself...

[jerry b]

I don't know why they have to list "net water capacity". This looks like a lawyer nightmare if someone mistakes that column for a charge weight. Imagine.
Besides, I don't think charging a .45 colt case with 28.0 grs of H2O will give much performance. Heck, you'd need somekinda magnum primer to light that off.

[Griff]

I don't know why they have to list "net water capacity". This looks like a lawyer nightmare if someone mistakes that column for a charge weight. Imagine.
Besides, I don't think charging a .45 colt case with 28.0 grs of H2O will give much performance. Heck, you'd need somekinda magnum primer to light that off.

Since pressure is partiially a function of case volumce, noting same is fair warning NOT to tyry these loads in cases with less volume. Regardless the prudent loader will ALWAYS begin at lesser charge weights and work up to HIS OWN maximum. Those loads may be perfectly safe in his gun. But... differences in case volume. seating depth, chamber size, freebore, groove and bore diameter in any other gun might prove destructive.

My advice is to NEVER take load info from other than published sources, such as bullet and powder manufacturers. In almost all instances they've tested those loads in either pressure barrels or guns. Hodgdon's website lists 28 grs. as max w/H110 & 240gr. bullets. They list 26.5 w/250gr. pills. Note that the 1-½gr. drop in charge w/the 10gr heavier bullet only drops the pressure 200CUP (copper units of pressure). It might lead you believe that a ½gr. more powder w/the 250gr. bullet is no big deal. But, powders produce pressure in a curve like fashion, that ½gr of additional powder might put you in a portion of the curve where pressure is increased exponentionally, not arithematically. These loads are ones that should be approached with caution; My own personal practice is that when approaching within 10% of max recommended loads, I only increase powder charges by 1/10th of a grain. Might be overly cautious, but I haven't blown a gun up either. One should never just load at those levels 'cause that's the type of performance you want. You just might exceed those maximum pressure levels in your particular gun due to the variables listed above.

Note: all the above are loads for Ruger, Freedom Arms & TC only. I'd consider them safe in the Marlin 1894, Rossi '92 or Winchester 94. Certainly way too high pressure for the Colt, its clones; the Vaquero-lite, or the Uberti toggle-link actions (1860, '66 & '73).

Lastly, my apologies to anyone that knows & understands these cautionary practices; but one never really knows the experience level of everyone that may read load data.

[txpete]

griff how about the browning low walls in 45 colt and loads for them??
pete

[Griff]

Pete,

I really don't know. But, the highest pressure load I can recall off the top of my head the "Low-Wall" was chambered in was the .32-40 Winchester. As it's a relatively low pressure round, (15,000 - 25,000 CUP), I'd be cautious using hot loads. Rmember, you're firing from a closed breech, no cylinder gap to bleed off pressure. A "Hi-Wall" 'd be a different story.

If you have other info, I'd be interested in earning.

[txpete]

I have a browning low wall coming in this summer in 45 colt.it is one of the new ones(jap) not a old one.I really don't have a idea griff on loads.
pete

[Joe4570]

Anything of consequence relating to Real Guns data has already been addressed in this group, but I thought a little context might be helpful.

The reason we post net case capacity with handloads on Real Guns is underscore that bullets may be of the same weight but may be of different length or may be seated to different depths, which alters case volume and resulting pressure and performance levels. Additionally, people who use handload simulation software for rough preliminary load development, and wish to substitute bullets, use this case volume reference as a pressure change indicator. H2O, as a practical matter, provides a uniform density medium for comparing or measure case volume, where as smokeless powder varies greatly in density with the changes in granular structure; it's easy to pack 108% of ball powder by weight into a case, not so much so with Re25.

If you are considering using data from RealGuns, you'll see specific limitations posted in the panel at the top of the data table. In the case of the 45 Colt, handguns data was for Ruger Bisley and T/C firearms only and in rifle data it is listed as Winchester '94and Ruger Bisly. The SAAMI pressure reference for the cartridge is 14,000 PSI and all of these loads on Real Guns are well above that mark. I don't even shoot them in new model Vaqueros and certainly not Colt revolvers. We develop loads with a universal receiver and with a firearm typical for the application wired with a strain gauge to double check, so when something on the sight says - "Not for use in..." "Use only in..." we really mean it. I think the comment made suggesting looking for similar handload data appearing in mainstream manuals before using other published data was right on target.

[Griff]

Joe4570,
Thanks for the info. I figured as much; welcome to the forum. Hope you stick around and continue to share your experience and knowledge with us.

[kimwcook]

Griff, +1

[oldmax]

Thanks all, Very good info, My understanding from replies:

"Realguns" Load data is acceptable using prudent loading techniques:
IE: Start with reduced loads and work up in small increments...
I have already reloaded w296 with lighter loads than the "Real guns" data
so , for now I will continue with W296.. Than H110 ,
depending on results...
Thanks again,

OH, Sorry, I should have stated that I am Loading for a USRA Win94 Trapper....

[Travis Morgan]

John Linebaugh lists 28 grains of H-110 under a 250 gr. bullet as the absolute MAXIMUM for old model Rugers, Thompson contenders, etc.. DO NOT LOAD THESE IN COLTS OR CLONES!!! THEY WILL BLOW UP!!!

I've shot loads that were lighter than this, and you darn well need to hang onto the gun, or it will jump out of your hand. There's no sense in a load this hot. If you need this much power, use a rifle! If you do load some of these up, take a screwdriver with you, because ALL the screws holding the gripframe on will be loose!

[scr83jp]

I load remington & starline 45 colt brass using Sierra pistol data for my Ruger 4 5/8" Blackhawk.I have a 454 Casull 15 inch TC Encore pistol barrel and a TC Encore 18" Bullberry Rifle barrel chambered for SW460mag that I've made up some loads using H110/W296 for the 45 colt that gives me much improved accuracy but isn't listed in any books.

[Travis Morgan]

For those that didn't know, H-110 is not recommended for less than magnum loads, or for cast bullets. When I called and spoke with one of Hodgdon's techs, he told me that H-110 tends to melt the back of the bullet. I'm also told by other folks that if you try to load with H-110 for light loads, it can cause detonation.

[scr83jp]

For those that didn't know, H-110 is not recommended for less than magnum loads, or for cast bullets. When I called and spoke with one of Hodgdon's techs, he told me that H-110 tends to melt the back of the bullet. I'm also told by other folks that if you try to load with H-110 for light loads, it can cause detonation.

Before undertaking 45 colt load mods for my encores I checked with ammo company techs about my magnum encores.I've had no pressure signs or extraction problems with the brass so the beginning 454 casull load data has worked fine for my 45 colt brass & is really accurate.

[Joe4570]

Joe4570,
Thanks for the info. I figured as much; welcome to the forum. Hope you stick around and continue to share your experience and knowledge with us.

One of the nice things about this board is that is has held on to experienced participants while bringing in a lot of developing handloaders and firearm enthusiasts. The discussions can be pretty throught provoking and cause me to go off and dig into things a little further. Yup, enjoyable and respectful discussion.

I'm in the middle of a 45 Colt Redhawk project now. The 45 Colt is an incredible cartridge to handload, with at least as much potential as the 45-70 Gov't, for perfrmance and for the same types of debates. Someone mentioned Linebaugh's early work; great stuff. That's what got me interested in this particular round. I think sometimes his W296 and H110 data gets passed around without the context with the rest of the project's information, and that's unfortunate. He offered a lot of insight into selected firearm strength and the basis for his conclusions, information that would be helpful to any experimenting handloader. I think people who publish or post their work don't always get it right, but if they are willing to define the details of their process, others at least can assess that detail and decide if the end result is valid.

A general note in handloading in regard to sources and information - We give away handloading equipment to young shooters at the shop every once in a while. Not randomly, but where someone shows an real interest and doesn't mind doing the research. The first part of the equipment they get is a manual with the assignment of reading everything in the front of the book, stopping before they get to handload data. The next step is teaching them how to use headspace and cartridge gauges and a run through with component assembly using a cutaway barrel. We want them to know the theory of operation before they start putting ammo together. We figure the foundation will put them in a better position to assess other information they will come in contact with, and make them a little safer when they get to the point of experimenting a year or so down the road when they've learned how to make consistently good ammunition from industry standard data. It amazes me how many people want to ask a few questions and walk out with equipment and components, but don't want to spend a few bucks on a manual.

[Travis Morgan]

I've nearly worn my first manual out! I reread it occassionally, just because each time I do, I Iearn something new, or understand something better than I did the first time I read it.