Cast or jacketed bullets in pitted 1894 Winchester barrel?
Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Cast or jacketed bullets in pitted 1894 Winchester barrel?
My old, full length, 1894 Winchester rifle in 30-30 was made in 1903. Its has very little wear at the muzzle and the lands look strong. However, the bore is dark and pitting in the bore grooves is pretty obvious. I have not fired it, but have had it in the safe for decades. I am wondering whether the pitting in the grooves is a problem when firing factory jacketed-bullet 30-30 ammo. Lower velocity cast bullet loads are the alternative, but I can imagine that the bore pits would soon fill up with lead if I did that, and then firing jacketed bullets would melt that lead. Any thoughts or suggestions?
Re: Cast or jacketed bullets in pitted 1894 Winchester barrel?
South, I have a similar Winchester rifle in 38-55. Same strong lands and dark bore with pitting. I slugged it by pushing a 38 caliber lead down the bore with a stainless cleaning rod. It popped out the breech and I miked it for correct bore size. I shoot 1/thousandth over cast bullets and also jacketed 38-55 slugs. Both are fine but I get slightly better accuracy with the cast lead. I clean my rifle after each outing and haven't noticed any lead build up. My rifle is good for 3" at 100 yards if I do my part. A perfect deer, bear and hog rifle.southfork wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 12:56 pm My old, full length, 1894 Winchester rifle in 30-30 was made in 1903. Its has very little wear at the muzzle and the lands look strong. However, the bore is dark and pitting in the bore grooves is pretty obvious. I have not fired it, but have had it in the safe for decades. I am wondering whether the pitting in the grooves is a problem when firing factory jacketed-bullet 30-30 ammo. Lower velocity cast bullet loads are the alternative, but I can imagine that the bore pits would soon fill up with lead if I did that, and then firing jacketed bullets would melt that lead. Any thoughts or suggestions?
Re: Cast or jacketed bullets in pitted 1894 Winchester barrel?
Thanks for that input. If my 1894 was in 38-55, I would only use cast bullets in it since it was never intended to shoot faster than 1500 or 1600 FPS. But I would like to get the higher 30-30 velocities. I an afraid if I start shooting cast, I can't easily go to jacketed bullets. I am sure some others have been thru this with a 30-30.
Re: Cast or jacketed bullets in pitted 1894 Winchester barrel?
I have a 32-40 with a slilghtly rough bore, but it shoots gas checked lead bullets and copper jacketed bullets well. But I don't shoot enough nor have enough time to worry about switching back and forth and special/extra cleaning, etc.
So I've switched completely to some custom hawk 0.025 jacketed bullets just to keep things simple and because they perform awesome on deer at the slightly lower 32-40 velocity (~ 1900 fps with 165gr jacketed flat nose). I'm definitely a fan of the Hawk bullets and have heard them recommended before for old barrels.
So I've switched completely to some custom hawk 0.025 jacketed bullets just to keep things simple and because they perform awesome on deer at the slightly lower 32-40 velocity (~ 1900 fps with 165gr jacketed flat nose). I'm definitely a fan of the Hawk bullets and have heard them recommended before for old barrels.
-
- Levergunner 3.0
- Posts: 996
- Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:19 pm
- Location: South East South Dakota
Re: Cast or jacketed bullets in pitted 1894 Winchester barrel?
The one hard & fast rule in firearms is: there are no hard & fast rules.
Really the only way to see what will work is to try it. Over on Cast Boolits some guys report getting decent accuracy with pitted bores, some don't. A friend of mine has worked with a Trapdoor with pits you could almost loose a penny in that will do around four inches at 100 with cast, IF they're big enough.
Really the only way to see what will work is to try it. Over on Cast Boolits some guys report getting decent accuracy with pitted bores, some don't. A friend of mine has worked with a Trapdoor with pits you could almost loose a penny in that will do around four inches at 100 with cast, IF they're big enough.
- earlmck
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 3447
- Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:10 am
- Location: pert-neer middle of Oregon
Re: Cast or jacketed bullets in pitted 1894 Winchester barrel?
What Catshooter said. I have a 32 Special of that vintage with a bore like that. It shoots jacketed bullets pretty dang well but is plumb awful with cast. And I have a couple 25 Remingtons with sewer-pipy bores that also will shoot jacketed decent but not cast. And I have a couple 6.5 Japs that have nasty looking bores and they won't shoot anything I've tried.
But a 1950 model Marlin 30/30 with pitted bore shoots cast bullets just fine. Just have to see what the gun tells you I guess.
But a 1950 model Marlin 30/30 with pitted bore shoots cast bullets just fine. Just have to see what the gun tells you I guess.
The greatest patriot...
is he who heals the most gullies. Patrick Henry
is he who heals the most gullies. Patrick Henry
Re: Cast or jacketed bullets in pitted 1894 Winchester barrel?
Well, I guess that I am going to start with jacketed bullets and see how they do. I have a lot of fairly new 150 Gr jacketed round nose, flat point, bullets in .308. I also have some 110 or 115 gr flat nose, hollow point, jacketed bullets in .308. I can load either of these in 30-30 brass, but may start with the 110 gr bullet, just in case the barrel's groove pitting puts up too much resistance to the longer 150 gr. bullet. Anybody got a powder charge they like when loading 110 gr jacketed bullets in their own 30-30 rifle?
-
- Levergunner 3.0
- Posts: 996
- Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:19 pm
- Location: South East South Dakota
Re: Cast or jacketed bullets in pitted 1894 Winchester barrel?
I like Unique, if you have any. From five to ten grains is often quite accurate. And soft shooting of course.
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 9068
- Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:05 am
- Location: Sweetwater, TX
Re: Cast or jacketed bullets in pitted 1894 Winchester barrel?
Southfork, if you cannot get that rifle to shoot anything, consider having it rebored to .35-30 or .38-55.
JES Rifle Reboring in Oregon can do the work. The .35-30 was one of our first wildcats and was developed for the very reason you describe. It's been discussed here.
JES Rifle Reboring in Oregon can do the work. The .35-30 was one of our first wildcats and was developed for the very reason you describe. It's been discussed here.
- marlinman93
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 6494
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 3:40 pm
- Location: Oregon
Re: Cast or jacketed bullets in pitted 1894 Winchester barrel?
If the pitting is going to cause an issue, it's far more likely it would do so with cast plain base bullets than with jacketed. Often a less than perfect bore will shoot jacketed great, but might lead up if pitting is too bad.
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
http://members.tripod.com/~OregonArmsCollectors/
Re: Cast or jacketed bullets in pitted 1894 Winchester barrel?
My best suggestion is to try it with a few of each type of load. As was said above, let the rifle tell you what it likes.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Re: Cast or jacketed bullets in pitted 1894 Winchester barrel?
I had an Winchester 1894TD in 30 WCF that the barrel looked like a sewer pipe . After scrubbing the heck out of it I tried jacketed handloads and I shot some three shot groups with it at 50 yards that cut a ragged hole . Now I did that about fifteen years ago , I seriously doubt I see well enough now to do that . But I never considered trying cast in that rifle .
Parkers , Mannlicher Schoenauer’s , 6.5mm's and my family in the Philippines !