Other than turning the barrel

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Scott Tschirhart
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Other than turning the barrel

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I wonder if there’s a cure for this?
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I’ve bent barrels on old Smith Model 10s. But never wanted to try it with a SAA
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

Post by Ysabel Kid »

File the rear sight notch a smidge maybe? That's a tough one Scott. :shock:
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

Post by piller »

I do not know, but I am curious to find out.
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

Post by JimT »

I read where Fitz .. when he worked at Colt .. used a big rawhide hammer and when sighting a SAA if it was shooting to one side or the other he would whack it with the hammer and try it and if need be, whack it again until it was pretty well centered. I have no way to verify the truth of that. I do know you can bend the frame of a sixgun. We had a Colt SAA .45 that a horse stepped on. After that it hit 10 feet to one side at 100 yards.

What distance were you shooting? If that's 25 yards or so just remove a little of the rear notch on the right side.
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

This was at 25 yards. It shoots pretty well, just to the left.

We would whack a S&W Model 10 with a lead bar to adjust windage years ago. So I was thinking ........you know how dangerous that is.
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

Post by JimT »

Scott Tschirhart wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 1:47 pm We would whack a S&W Model 10 with a lead bar to adjust windage years ago. So I was thinking ........you know how dangerous that is.
That would work. Don't overdo it.
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

Post by AJMD429 »

.
I wouldn't trust a gun that shoots to the left...

Maybe if it shot a little bit to the right of Center, that would be okay... :D

I'm assuming you want to minimize the alterations due to the collectible factor, but do you think you could add some meat to the left side of the front sight somehow?

Perhaps you could solder or even JB weld a piece of sheet metal to the left side of the front sight; that could be removed later without any permanent damage to the gun. It would make the site wider than you may be used to but it also might make it easier to make center hits with. Of course if you wind up making it wide enough that you have to widen the rear sight for it to work well then you're right back where you started having to alter the gun in a bit more permanent fashion.
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

Post by GunnyMack »

While in gunsmith school I picked up an RWS air rifle- cheap! Reason was the guys young son wasn't strong enough to get it all the way back, the spring had enough power to slam the barrel back and bend the barrel. The bend was very obvious looking down the bore. I mentioned it in class one day and the instructor said we can fix that, bring it in. Next day I took it apart and im expecting to use a hydraulic press, nope the instructor grabbed a babbitt bar, set it flat on the bench and swung the barrel at the block.
Before the barrel had .050- .100" of bend, afterwards back within about .003-.004 . Its still accurate too!
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

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GunnyMack wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 3:25 pm While in gunsmith school I picked up an RWS air rifle- cheap! Reason was the guys young son wasn't strong enough to get it all the way back, the spring had enough power to slam the barrel back and bend the barrel. The bend was very obvious looking down the bore. I mentioned it in class one day and the instructor said we can fix that, bring it in. Next day I took it apart and im expecting to use a hydraulic press, nope the instructor grabbed a babbitt bar, set it flat on the bench and swung the barrel at the block.
Before the barrel had .050- .100" of bend, afterwards back within about .003-.004 . Its still accurate too!
I attended gunsmith school at Lassen College in California, they taught us the same way but a little bit different technique. Put a piece of car. peting across a bench with it hanging over the edge. Bang the barrel on the edge corner until you reach the desired result. Have done a couple of .22 rifles this way and worked out great. I have my doubts about how effective this would be with a short barrel such as a revolver.
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

Post by bmtshooter »

I have a 357 SAA that shoots left also. It came from the factory with the front sight slightly left of top dead center already, so turning the barrel doesn't appear to be an option.

It must have been manufactured on a Monday morning or a Friday afternoon.
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

This is Terry's old Second Gen Colt and I don't want to do anything to alter it but I do need it to shoot to the sights. A rawhide mallet seems to be the most efficient cure. Just need to take the ejector rod off and take it slow.
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

Post by Rockrat »

Just shoot it with your left hand. It will recoil to the right and be on center then!!! :D
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

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Rockrat wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 9:20 pm Just shoot it with your left hand. It will recoil to the right and be on center then!!! :D
Simple enough.
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

Post by trapper45 »

I've had a couple of single actions that shot to the side, never a Colt, but Ubertis and even a 7-1/2" Ruger New Vaquero. I took a dressing file and opened the rear notch a t-i-n-y bit to the side I needed the groups to go, just like working an adjustable sight. With the front blade re-centered in the new notch, the groups were where they should be, from super close out to 25 yards. Probably would've been on beyond 25, but that's the distance I had available, and it was definitely good enough for my eyes and any practical shooting. Once the notch was widened to the width that worked, a wee dab of touch-up blue on the shiny area blended it right back in with the rest of the frame. Several judicious thousandths was all it took, and the modification(s) is/were successful, and undetectable.
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

Post by 765x53 »

I have had the same problem with every handgun I own. I discovered I can mitigate the problem by grabbing as much trigger as I can reach. A light, tip of the finger pull pushes the group to the left.
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

Post by horsesoldier03 »

https://bobmunden.com/pricelist-six-gun-magic/

My experience with Jeff Ault with Munden's has been outstanding. He will turn the barrel and sight it in alone or you can get a package deal. The value of a gun that can literally shoot quarters can't be beat.
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

Post by elmo123 »

I have noticed that my groups change left/right due to the lighting. Have someone else shoot it and see how it shoots for them.
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

Post by Malamute »

With regard to the "file the rear sight notch in the frame" comments, ALWAYS modify or otherwise start working on the cheapest part when theres a choice, and the frame doesnt qualify for that title. Making a permanent alteration to a frame for an otherwise fixable problem also doesnt seem the best course of action.

You can probably bend the front sight a bit with a crescent wrench, or make or buy a setup for turning the barrel, its not really that complicated, or have a gunsmith do it. Ive bent a Ruger Vaquero front sight with a crescent.
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

Post by OldWin »

My old gunsmith buddy had a guy come in with a Smith 686 that had a definite curve to it.
The guy was in a nasty divorce and his ex wife had her boyfriend set it across 2 2x4s and run over it with his Peterbuilt. Needless to say, there wasn't enough windage adjustment to compensate. Matter of fact, it wouldn't even open.
My buddy straightened it back out over the course of a couple days and had it shooting.
"Oh bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

Post by piller »

OldWin wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 4:48 pm My old gunsmith buddy had a guy come in with a Smith 686 that had a definite curve to it.
The guy was in a nasty divorce and his ex wife had her boyfriend set it across 2 2x4s and run over it with his Peterbuilt. Needless to say, there wasn't enough windage adjustment to compensate. Matter of fact, it wouldn't even open.
My buddy straightened it back out over the course of a couple days and had it shooting.
That says a lot about your friend's skill and the quality of steel in a 686.
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

Post by OldWin »

piller wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 5:10 pm
OldWin wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 4:48 pm My old gunsmith buddy had a guy come in with a Smith 686 that had a definite curve to it.
The guy was in a nasty divorce and his ex wife had her boyfriend set it across 2 2x4s and run over it with his Peterbuilt. Needless to say, there wasn't enough windage adjustment to compensate. Matter of fact, it wouldn't even open.
My buddy straightened it back out over the course of a couple days and had it shooting.
That says a lot about your friend's skill and the quality of steel in a 686.
It sure does, my friend. He is almost 81 now, and his health isn't good. He worked so much magic for me over the years, and with very little in regards to equipment. Especially compared to those of today.
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

Post by Nate Kiowa Jones »

765x53 wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 12:38 am I have had the same problem with every handgun I own. I discovered I can mitigate the problem by grabbing as much trigger as I can reach. A light, tip of the finger pull pushes the group to the left.
That's the easiest fix if it works. The most common issue with a righthanded shooter is low left. New shooters tend to push anticipating the shot. So, it goes low. In your case I'm betting too little trigger finger which tends to push left. Try more finger on the trigger before you do anything to the gun.

If it doesn't bag it and if it persists that should isolate the problem as being a gun issue.
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

Nate Kiowa Jones wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 7:02 pm
765x53 wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 12:38 am I have had the same problem with every handgun I own. I discovered I can mitigate the problem by grabbing as much trigger as I can reach. A light, tip of the finger pull pushes the group to the left.
That's the easiest fix if it works. The most common issue with a righthanded shooter is low left. New shooters tend to push anticipating the shot. So, it goes low. In your case I'm betting too little trigger finger which tends to push left. Try more finger on the trigger before you do anything to the gun.

If it doesn't bag it and if it persists that should isolate the problem as being a gun issue.
You know, this makes a lot of sense. I think the trigger is too heavy and the spring seems to be too powerful, so I have been trying very hard to make sure I pull the trigger straight back. (I would straighten this trigger, but I really don't want to change it much if possible.) Could be that I could grab a bit more trigger and see what happens.
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

Post by OldWin »

I'm shading a little left with my 4.75" 45 also. It is a new SAA, so it is still pretty stiff in regards to trigger.
I have learned not to do anything in the way of mechanical compensation until it has been shot a good amount and the trigger is where I think it needs to be.
For me at least, I seem more susceptible to trigger induced point of impact shifts with the Colt SAA than any other handgun.
But I love them so.....I don't care. :D
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

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piller wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 9:22 pm
Rockrat wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 9:20 pm Just shoot it with your left hand. It will recoil to the right and be on center then!!! :D
Simple enough.
try shooting with the non dominant to see if that helps
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

Post by Nath »

At the risk of being flamed have any of you partially and minutely bevelled one side of the crown at all?

I have steered the shot pattern from a shotgun on many guns but never tried it on a rifle or pistol.
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

Post by EdinCT »

I have a Ruger Vaquero that shot 3 inches left at 25 yards I called Ruger to see if they would turn the barrel and was told that it was within spec. So I took off the ejector housing and put the barrel in some rosined blocks and got nothing. Then I said if it don't hit where I look what good is it ,I put it back in the blocks and laid a piece of brass stock against it and rapped it to the left. It shoots dead on now with a leaning front sight!
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

Post by Tycer »

rossim92 wrote: Sun Jun 05, 2022 8:45 pm
try shooting with the non dominant to see if that helps
Maybe it’s a left handed gun.
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

Post by AJMD429 »

.
I have had handgun where a new set of grips (different shape/style) significantly changed impact, so maybe try that?

Or do they cheap pair of wooden ones and rasp areas that might affect gun motion laterally.
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Re: Other than turning the barrel

Post by marlinman93 »

I had a SAA that shot slightly off and took it to a local gunsmith to see what he could do. He suggested narrowing the front blade a little to see if that would correct it. Of course that makes more daylight on the rear sight notch, but it did correct almost all the centering.
He also told me he'd had good luck pushing or slightly canting front blades. But he said he couldn't move them much without fracturing the solder that holds them into the barrel.
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