Custody fight leads to shooting death-WARNING GRAPHIC VIDEO

[CowboyTutt]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/caught-on-ca ... spark_wn=1

In my opinion, this was in no way self-defense but not sure how Texas law will interpret it. Totally unnecessary. Looks like Voluntary Manslaughter to me, the intentional, unpremeditated killing of another person as the result of a disturbed state of mind, or heat of passion. Yeah, the guy did advance on him, and yes he tried to grab the gun, but the shooter had moved away and was at a safe distance when he fired the lethal shot. The world is going crazy right now. -Tutt

[JimT]

It's easy to make judgement calls when we are not in the pressure cooker of the confrontation. We cannot see what the man who became shot was doing as the shooter was backing up.

[Blaine]

I back the shooter. The vic was repeatedly warned, and advanced anyway. Notice that the vic was a giant compared to the shooter.

[JimT]

Have to keep in mind that videos do not show everything.

[2ndovc]

What catches my attention in the video is that the guy that did the shooting can't seem to shut up while everything he's saying is being recorded. The second is that no one at the scene seems to be overly disturbed that there's a dying and or dead guy on the porch. I would think someone would be attempting some kind of first aid.

Hope he has a good attorney. the second he walked out on that porch with the PC 9 he vastly escalated the situation.

jb

[Ray]

Deleted.

[Sixgun]

Tutt....I respect you.....a lot.......but pleeeaaassss, we are all male conservatives here and no need for the graphic video warning. I've seen much worse in the back of the warehouse....in fact, I've seen knock down mean fights right in the shipping office with knives drawn and typewriters going through the air........that's for real.

On to business.....

The guy with the gun is going to jail and rightfully so. He had no need to bring out a gun......the ex husband had his new girlfriend (assuming) in his truck videoing. Everyone knew each other. It was broad daylight and the argument was nothing more than what we all have experienced in our lives.

I can feel the tension in the air no matter where we go...people are on edge for many reasons like being "forced to be nice"----006

[JOG]

I miss the days when a good old punch in the mouth was all that was needed!
I would have left the gun in the house personally.
When kids are involved, tempers will flair!
Johnny

[octagon]

Video not loading. I do see a pic of a guy stupid enough to chest bump an agro guy with a rifle. Darwin suggests this might get you eliminated. Anger will make folks do stupid crazy things.

[CowboyTutt]

Apologies to Ray, didn't see the other thread on the Politics forum. Jim T. brings up a good point you can't see what the father of the child was doing as he was off camera, its possible he was advancing but eye witness testimony will tease that out easily enough. Also, the father may have been trying to take the gun away so he wouldn't be shot by it. Why the family didn't barricade themselves in the house and call police or sheriffs and let them de-escalate the situation while being armed inside I don't know. I agree with Jason that when the shooter came out of the house with the rifle, he escalated the situation by 20 times. He was looking for trouble looking at his rants after he shot the father. I'm betting the shooter is going to prison myself, but we shall see. Hopefully the jury will figure it out correctly. I feel really badly for the child who doesn't have a father now. Six, thanks for the kind words, same back at you, and just in case some underage or sensitive person is on this forum as a guest is why I posted the warning, not for us guys here. We get a LOT of guests that visit here and you can see that when you go to the bottom of the page and see who is currently online. -Tutt

[Ray]

Deleted.

[CowboyTutt]

Thanks Ray, I corrected my post to say rifle, It does look like it was not a shot gun. The lady filming has already filed a huge lawsuit:

Jennifer Read has filed a petition seeking to take custody of Chad Read's children from their mother, Christina Read. She has also filed suit against Kyle Carruth and Vitruvian Development LLC for her husband's shooting death, according to KCBD. She is seeking $50M in a wrongful death lawsuit.

-Tutt

[CowboyTutt]

Oops, dreaded double post so deleted it. Mods feel free to delete this one. -Tutt

[rossim92]

first resort , call the cops, last resort, choot em boss, choot em. the da gonna have a field day with this. from way i see it, the father was just mouthing off. all they had to do was go in the house and call the cops, if he followed into the house, well, then thats a different story. please keep us updated on outcome with the court case. I am curious. thanks

[rossim92]

first resort , call the cops, last resort, choot em boss, choot em. the da gonna have a field day with this. from way i see it, the father was just mouthing off. all they had to do was go in the house and call the cops, if he followed into the house, well, then thats a different story. please keep us updated on outcome with the court case. I am curious. thanks

[stretch]

Wow.

As someone else said, poorly played on both sides.

I think the aggressor here was the guy who wouldn't leave. With just the information
presented, I'm inclined to let the shooter go.

Custody issues can be NASTY - but use the courts - as expensive and frustrating
as that is.

It will be interesting to see how a judge/jury interprets the whole thing.

-Stretch

[RIHMFIRE]

I DID NOT HEAR ANY AUDIO,
BUT I THINK HE IS TOAST...
HE WENT BACK INTO HIS HOUSE TO GET IT...
HE SHOULD HAVE STAYED IN THERE AND CALLED THE COPS.
TOO MUCH OF THE STORY IS NOT KNOW.....

[Griff]

When I was a cop in CA we were often called up to stand-by while Mom or Dad picked up or dropped off kids during a court recognized transfer of custody. It greatly reduced the number of violent encounters. Might have been helpful in this case. Our Sheriff was a firm believer in us "keeping the peace". Actually, I see this going to a jury, but without a lot more in the way of background, I believe it's impossible for us armchair QBs to come to the right decision. An awful lot of testosterone on that porch. I feel more for the kid(s) involved than I do for the so-called adults.

Rihmfire, there's a little button in the top-right corner to turn the audio on.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I think the guy who was killed was there to pick up his child as part of the court ordered sharing of custody. Seems the friend (perhaps boyfriend) of the mother decided to produce a weapon instead of the child. Obviously it didn't end well for the father but I don't think it's going to end all that well for the other guy either. Looks like the unarmed guy was shot as he attempted to enter the dwelling to get his child. Actually, if he was attempting to enter the dwelling, he'd have taken the bullet in the back or thereabouts. If he was shot in the front, I'm not sure one could argue that he was entering the dwelling.

I'm thinking this will end up on the news again when it gets to court. I will be interested in the "but he was facing me unarmed at a distance of 15 feet so I had to shoot" argument.

[CowboyTutt]

Rhim, I see no evidence when the father of the child he came to pick up, according to the pre-arranged custody orders, tried to enter the house. Not sure where you are coming from on this idea. Yes, we are all "arm chair" warriors in this case at present. That being said, this was HUGELY mishandled by all involved. Call the police and ask for "civil standby" as per Griff's experiences. That's what we call it here in Commiefornia. Lock yourself in your house and don't come out. If they break down the front door, that is entirely a different story. The shooter did just the opposite of that. He went into his house, presented a rifle, and shot the father of the child. I do agree that the wife of the shooting who filmed the whole thing seems rather detached. And now she is suing for custody of the kids and 50 million dollars. Hmmm. -Tutt

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Rhim, I see no evidence when the father of the child he came to pick up, according to the pre-arranged custody orders, tried to enter the house. Not sure where you are coming from on this idea.

Yeah, whatever happened was out of frame to the left. There was a woman in the doorway moments before, on the phone it looked like. The door is then closed by her, but it's got a large glass insert so the foyer is still visible.
From the text of the article, it seems to imply that he was looking for his child ... I assume that child was in the building in the video, where the wife was working. But as I noted, it didn't look like he was shot in the back as he way lying on the porch. If he was shot in the front, he was probably NOT attempting to enter the dwelling. I don't see much justification for the shooting.

Not keeping everything in frame makes the video less useful.

Yeah, that suit came pretty quickly unless this incident is months older than the article.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Video from another angle in this article.

Complicated, but the man killed slung the other guy around using the gun to do so but didn't "take" the gun. There seemed to be significant distance between the two when the shots were fired. It's not clear that he was advancing on him when he was killed ... it looks like he's shot before he can even make a move toward him. You can hear the victim ask the shooter "where's my son" seconds before the shooting.

[Ray]

Deleted.

[barbarossa]

I would imagine the shooter will claim he was a big scary guy,was aggressive and I feared for my life though in the video the shooter doesn’t look afraid at all he looks mad as hell even going into a bit of a rant after he killed him.Basically the culmination of a long time hate between the two men.Custody issues are always contentious as both parties purposely do things to tick each other off without any respect for the court order or what’s right for the child involved.I imagine the child of the dead man will thank this man for killing his/her father and will be eternally grateful

[Blaine]

It actually being none our business, we don't have access to pertinent facts. Of the four or possibly more persons there we don't even know who is what to who.....

If the domicile is indeed actually the shooter's then that missing view, stage left could possibly have shown the decedent attempting to enter said domicile..... there is a screen or storm door in partial view before and briefly during the scuffle.....if that can be proven it won't even have to go to trial or even grand jury or whatever texicans do preparatory to the trial proper. If it cannot be proven pretrial then there is an excellent defense....it is assumed that only the one camera user who is said to be the then current spouse, now widow of the decedent would be the sole witness hostile to the shooter/potential defendant. We simply don't know who and how many witnessed.....

Texican Criminal Code 9:31.....

(1)knew or had reason to believe that the person against whom the force was used:

(A)unlawfully and with force entered, or was attempting to enter unlawfully and with force, the actor’s occupied habitation,

vehicle, or place of business or employment;

Notice that there is no mentioned exceptions or prohibitions on being outside said domicile and looking in. If the proper door was open as it appears to be does reaching for the screen door amount to "force" ? Does the decedent's obvious ingnoring the clearly audible request for him to cease and desist and vacate mean anything re. the "force" requirement ?

I suspect that if this were a situation where the decedent was unknown to the shooter, there would not be that much of a problem. I see no difference in the two situations. But, I'm old and cranky and order people off my property every so often myself.