Baldwin: " . . . I didn't pull the trigger."

Bruce Scott · Post by **Bruce Scott** » Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:34 pm

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/em ... t-rcna7290

Ray Newman · Post by **Ray Newman** » Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:49 pm

I saw that. To me, it all looked and sounded phony. Believe it was LBJ who said a good politician knows how and when to cry -- same holds true for actors....

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:06 pm

When will anyone in the news come to the astounding conclusion..........................

..................................... it had to be Trump. who else could it be.

.

wvfarrier · Post by **wvfarrier** » Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:26 pm

It doesnt matter if he "pulled the trigger" or not. He pointed a firearm at someone and she died as a result of it

Scott Tschirhart · Post by **Scott Tschirhart** » Wed Dec 01, 2021 6:28 pm

Now I know the jig is up!!!!

4t5 · Post by **4t5** » Wed Dec 01, 2021 7:20 pm

He appears to be pleading his case in public opinion, to muddy up any jury pool, but that's an just opinion.

barbarossa · Post by **barbarossa** » Wed Dec 01, 2021 8:29 pm

So basically he saying he cocked the hammer but didn’t t pull the trigger meaning that sear on the hammer was defective which was the armourers fault for having a defective firearm on the set.A round about lawyers way of deflecting the blame on someone else but unfortunately for them it is one that can be easily disproved if the gun is examined and found to be ok plus it still doesn’t exonerate him from pointing the gun at a person .A smoke and mirrors game of wording

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:01 pm

He should have just shut his mouth up, but he is too arrogant and stupid to do that. I'm sure his attorneys are cringing. -Tutt

1894cfan · Post by **1894cfan** » Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:33 pm

LYING SACK OF DUNG!

44shooter · Post by **44shooter** » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:04 pm

Yeah he should keep quiet. I was wrong in my defense of him earlier. I didn't know what the film making standards were for working with guns. I do know universal rules of gun safety but do not trust everyone else to. Turns out it is much more regimented than I though not only for armorers but the talent as well. Also it has come out that his rehearsed scene did not call for pointing or shooting. Sounds like he totally drew down on them when it wasn't scripted. He is in trouble. Maybe others are too. But Baldwin is definitely liable if not guilty of manslaughter and reckless endangerment.

Carlsen Highway · Post by **Carlsen Highway** » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:22 pm

And yet the gun in his hand still managed to kill someone.
This is just another version of guns are dangerous on their own and people have no responsibility. The gun itself is guilty.

All three of them should be tried for manslaughter. Armourer, 2nd AD and Baldwin.

Leverluver · Post by **Leverluver** » Wed Dec 01, 2021 10:53 pm

I didn't catch the interview but Banfield just had segment on it. What surprised me is that the gal that was hired to handle the guns is Thell Reeds daughter. If you don't have grey hair you probably don't remember who he is. Too bad they didn't hire Thell instead. And being Thells daughter, she should know a heck of a lot more than it appears.

1894cfan · Post by **1894cfan** » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:01 am

leverluver, that's what I said!

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:05 am

The scary part is that thousands, if not millions of people will agree with him and lead protests against his deserved incarceration and loss of his undeserved wealth.

In the meantime Haylna's family's trauma will go unpublished, unnoticed and overshadowed by Alec's cries.----006

marlinman93 · Post by **marlinman93** » Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:29 am

Pure and simple dog doo doo! It's damage control, and it shouldn't work. But that depends on whether the prosecutors for the county have balls enough to even charge Baldwin. It would be an easy case to prove fault by him, and at least a couple others. But in the end Baldwin had a SAA style handgun that required HIM to not just point it at a human, but also cock the hammer! Regardless of whether someone told him it was safe, it was a rehearsal, and no reason to have a gun cocked or pointed at someone to practice the scene.
I'm still waiting to see if any authorities have guts enough to do their job, and press charges against all responsible for her death.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:23 pm

His play'acting at its finest. Lying sack of...

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:11 pm

Basic gun safety rules weren't followed, and the Screen Acotor's Guild rules for safe firearms handling weren't followed.
The armorer wasn't doing her job, and delegated her authority to an assistant producer in violation of union rules.
Alec Baldwin is an idiot for taking the word of the assistant director.

I agree with what others have said - it's a blame game now. Nobody will go to jail, the insurance companies will pay
up, and everybody will go on about their business.

-Stretch

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:43 pm

Ahh! The old "it just went off" defense. Do these idiots realize that some sort of physical action is required to start the firing process in action. Leave a weapon sitting un molested full loaded and it will simply turn to rust without ever firing.

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:11 pm

jeepnik wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:43 pm Ahh! The old "it just went off" defense.

I know Jeep, can you believe it??? That gun is already stored in evidence I'm sure. Won't take much to examine it and determine whether it is in proper working condition. Baldwin is an arrogant fool. -Tutt

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:43 pm

CowboyTutt wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:01 pm He should have just shut his mouth up, but he is too arrogant and stupid to do that. I'm sure his attorneys are cringing. -Tutt

+1

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:43 pm

1894cfan wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 9:33 pm LYING SACK OF DUNG!

+ infinity!

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:45 pm

Sixgun wrote: ↑Thu Dec 02, 2021 12:05 am The scary part is that thousands, if not millions of people will agree with him and lead protests against his deserved incarceration and loss of his undeserved wealth.

In the meantime Haylna's family's trauma will go unpublished, unnoticed and overshadowed by Alec's cries.----006

Spot on Six. Therein lies the problem. If the population had any common sense, he'd be on a fast track to jail... and a heck of a civil suit. Hopefully at least the latter will happen!

marlinman93 · Post by **marlinman93** » Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:30 pm

saw some more of the interview where he stated he pulled the hammer back, but it didn't stay back, and it went off. I think they called that "fanning the hammer" back in the old days? He still can't explain why he pointed it at her, or why it had live ammo in it!
When will the clown be charged?

1894cfan · Post by **1894cfan** » Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:46 pm

To 'fan' a single action the trigger needs to be held back so there is nothing to hold the hammer back! As I said above, LYING SACK OF DUNG!

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Thu Dec 02, 2021 11:58 pm

Well.....like 1894cfan says, "the trigger needs to held back". True...if the trigger was not held back it "should" catch on the safety notch......with a strong hammer spring it's possible the hammer throw up to the safety notch could make it go off...if done smartly.

The gun was a junk Pietta...j.u.n.k.....and I'm not being a smart butt......if it has that safety thingy on the bottom of the hammer like a Uberti does, anything can happen and I'm sure they are going over that gun with a fine toothed comb. Heck, with Alec's money there might even be a broken safety notch on the hammer which will mysteriously appear.

Million dollar actor and everything else was pinched on......even the union guys walked off, most likely (speculating) because they were too expensive to keep around......what I'm sure of....Alec Baldwin pinched pennies in every aspect of the movie except his pay which he prioritized.

What I think happened was the perfect storm where pennies were pinched, safety rules were not followed and his head was up his azz.......he had what they say, "crocodile tears" which is undoubtedly true...he is an ace actor. He is doing what a drunk driver does after he kills someone......running his mouth about this or that but is only worried about losing his azz, which he will and I hope Alec does. He is done....no disrespect to Halyna, but its Karma brought on by his huge ego which led to the brain f.art.

Mainstream media is protecting that piece of garbage and I have yet to see the trauma Halyna's family is going through. ----006

wvfarrier · Post by **wvfarrier** » Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:36 am

I would imagine Thell Reeds daughter is the one who will get thrown under the bus on this. Baldwin will.skate

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:44 am

When asked in the interview if He felt any guilt over the whole thing He said "NO" . an absolute dog and pony show to sway the public. I only hope that the legal system in New Mexico isn't a bunch of fools. Baldwin and at least two others need to go to jail over this. they did not follow long established safety measures. He is an arrogant product of the Hollywood left culture.

marlinman93 · Post by **marlinman93** » Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:56 am

So last night I'm scrolling through TV channels and Court TV has these two "experts" on to talk about what they think of the incident. Some ex FBI guy starts talking about how he always takes time to train all those on a TV or movie set if they're going to be handling firearms as part of their acting.
He goes on to tell how when he started with the FBI he was issued a .357 revolver and, "You can clearly look at the back of a revolver and see when it has bullets in it." Then they post an image of the Pietta SAA used in this incident, and he looks befuddled, and confused? He says he's not familiar with this type of gun, and it appears to not be open at the rear, and no way to swing the cylinder out! I'm sitting in my easy chair laughing, and thinking, this is an expert for movies, and Court TV? How can the actors be properly trained if the "expert" is so lacking in gun knowledge? If this is the state of firearms armorers in the movies, it's a wonder there's not more incidents!

Rimfire McNutjob · Post by **Rimfire McNutjob** » Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:21 pm

99.9% of America these days doesn't realize you have to cock the hammer on an SAA before the trigger will fire the weapon ... albeit I'm discounting the likelihood he was fanning the gun. Even today's "knowledgeable" younger gun people are only familiar with Glocks and other such semi-auto's and striker fired weapons. Or perhaps DA revolvers where you can put a long hard pull on the trigger to get the hammer cocked and released. SAA knowledge is thin these days ... except here of course.

Baldwin had to have pointed the gun at the woman and it had to have been cocked. And then, he likely pulled the trigger expecting nothing to happen as he "pretended" to shoot the woman. All but for a live round in the cylinder.

Apologies to the woman who was killed but I have to admit, this is fun to watch.

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Fri Dec 03, 2021 7:17 pm

Baldwin is trying to shift blame and control the narrative. Risky move during an open investigation but maybe it will work for him. Civilly, I doubt it. -Tutt

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:46 pm

Gentleman, I have been playing with my Ruger Bisley in 45 Colt tonight. I have not shot the thing in years although it is a very nice gun. I welcome feedback from you experts here. First observation, even though my Ruger uses a transfer bar system and not the traditional nipple firing pin design as the Pietta probably has, I can cock the hammer back almost 7/8ths of the way back before the hammer locks into place. Before that time, if I let the hammer slide, the transfer bar drops down and the hammer does hit the firing pin with sufficient force I bet it could ignite a primer. I think that this is one of the arguments that Baldwin is making and how he "didn't pull the trigger". However, he is over-looking another factor of the function of a single action gun that he is too uneducated to know about. Mainly, that the cylinder of a SA does not fully align itself to the firing pin until it is fully cocked. So depending on how far he cocked the gun, and how far the cylinder actually rotated, calls into question how a "hammer slip" could have caused ignition of the primer. If the cylinder rotation was not close enough to align the firing pin to the primer and cause ignition, I think the probability of ignition becomes less and less. OTOH, if he fully cocked the gun, then everything would have been in proper alignment to ignite the cartridge. It could only have fired if he pulled the trigger. Not sure even a failed safety could counter that argument. I let the smarter SA guys weigh in here. I am not one of them, I just played around here with my own gun, and did a few minutes of research.

Thanks Guys,

-Tutt

Sarge · Post by **Sarge** » Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:47 pm

marlinman93 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:56 am So last night I'm scrolling through TV channels and Court TV has these two "experts" on to talk about what they think of the incident. Some ex FBI guy starts talking about how he always takes time to train all those on a TV or movie set if they're going to be handling firearms as part of their acting.
He goes on to tell how when he started with the FBI he was issued a .357 revolver and, "You can clearly look at the back of a revolver and see when it has bullets in it." Then they post an image of the Pietta SAA used in this incident, and he looks befuddled, and confused? He says he's not familiar with this type of gun, and it appears to not be open at the rear, and no way to swing the cylinder out! I'm sitting in my easy chair laughing, and thinking, this is an expert for movies, and Court TV? How can the actors be properly trained if the "expert" is so lacking in gun knowledge? If this is the state of firearms armorers in the movies, it's a wonder there's not more incidents!

That is hilarious

kaschi · Post by **kaschi** » Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:58 pm

As a host on a radio show today said, if Donald Trump had shot someone in a similar fashion, Alec Baldwin would be yucking it up on SNL doing skits of the tragedy.

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:45 am

First observation, even though my Ruger uses a transfer bar system and not the traditional nipple firing pin design as the Pietta probably has, I can cock the hammer back almost 7/8ths of the way back before the hammer locks into place. Before that time, if I let the hammer slide, the transfer bar drops down and the hammer does hit the firing pin with sufficient force I bet it could ignite a primer

Not possible. Unless you hold pressure on the trigger, the transfer bar immediately falls as the hammer does. The hammer on the newer Rugers never touches the firing pin. It hits the transfer bar which is resting on the firing pin if the trigger is held.

Baldwin is trying to blame the armorer or the gun.
The media is trying to blame the gun or Starline, claiming that Starline made the blanks and the live ammo.
Sorry folks, Starline makes neither.

Sarge · Post by **Sarge** » Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:13 am

I'm going to re-post something here I put up on another forum, which pretty much comprises my thoughts on this thing. The folks there are not as familiar with the SA revolver as this group; so don't take any of this as preaching.
_____________________________________________________

From ABC News-

Baldwin told Stephanopoulos that he never pulled the trigger of the prop gun, but rather cocked it. He said when he released the hammer, it unexpectedly discharged a live bullet.

During a marking rehearsal for a complicated shooting scene, Baldwin said Hutchins was directing him on what angle to position the gun to capture the best shot. Hutchins was directing his every move, he said, "Everything is at her direction."

"She's guiding me through how she wants me to hold the gun for this angle," Baldwin said. "I'm holding the gun where she told me to hold it, which ended up being aimed right below her armpit."

"So, I take the gun and I start to cock the gun. I'm not going to pull the trigger," he continued. "And I cock the gun, I go, 'Can you see that? Can you see that? Can you see that?' And then I let go of the hammer of the gun, and the gun goes off. I let go of the hammer of the gun – the gun goes off."

"So you never pulled the trigger?" Stephanopoulos asked.

"No, no, no, no, no," Baldwin said. "I would never point a gun at anyone and pull a trigger at them. Never. Never. That was the training that I had."

A lawsuit filed in mid-November by the film's script supervisor, Mamie Mitchell, accused Baldwin, who is named as a defendant in the civil suit, of "playing Russian roulette" with the gun by pointing it at Hutchins.

"There are some who say you're never supposed to point a gun on anyone on a set no matter what," Stephanopoulos pressed.

"Unless the person is the cinematographer, who's directing me at where to point the gun for her camera angle," Baldwin replied. "I didn't point the gun at her, and she said, 'Hey, man, don't point the gun at me.' I pointed the gun in a direction she wanted."

Baldwin says he doesn't feel guilt, but the shooting left a heavy toll

"Do you feel guilt?," Stephanopoulos asked.

"No. No," Baldwin said. "I feel that someone is responsible for what happened, and I can't say who that is, but I know it's not me."

Dave Hallis also says Baldwin didn't pull the trigger. NY Post-

"Dave has told me since the very first day I met him that Alec did not pull that trigger," Halls' attorney, Lisa Torraco, told ABC News' Kaylee Hartung in an exclusive interview airing Thursday on "Good Morning America." "His finger was never in the trigger guard."

Enough quotes. I spent nearly 12 years as the investigator for a prosecuting attorney. One of my jobs was to run down and prove or disprove (if possible) the Defense's hare-brained, outlandish excuses for criminal behavior. We did this for a couple of reasons.

One, because the state has a duty to include exculpatory evidence in any filing decision. The Reasonable Doubt Standard should be met before criminal charges are filed.

Two, because the prosecutor must be able to disprove, to the satisfaction of the jury, all false defense claims. An all time favorite was "The gun just went OFF!!!"

So is there any plausible, remotely possible factor which could prove Baldwin and Hallis claims true? Actually, yes. We've all seen sixgun fanning in the movies and TV-

As a kid that cut his teeth on single actions, I can tell you this is not as easy as it looks. Most people and particularly most actors. don't have the mechanical understanding of the single action revolver mechanism required to pull this off w/o destroying it. Many lack the manual dexterity.

Hence the Slip Gun, explained here in detail and with photos.

gunsmagazine.com
The Croft / Keith Slip Gun
Elmer Keith’s Sixguns was first published in 1955, updated in 1961 and has been reprinted several times over the past 5+ decades.
gunsmagazine.com gunsmagazine.com

So it is possible IF Baldwin was handed a Pietta modified for fanning, he pulled the hammer back and released it--all without touching the trigger--the revolver could have fired with tragic results. The lab will sort it out.

marlinman93 · Post by **marlinman93** » Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:58 am

Well the "experts" were at it again last night on Court TV channel. This time the question by the moderator was put to two different "experts" who again are far from experts. He asked if the hammer could be dropped if cocked partially, and set off the "bullet"? The "expert" said that this model has "four clicks where the trigger is captured". Of course that caught my ears as it was news to me that "clicks" meant the "trigger" was ever captured? And of course he meant hammer, but still news to me if that happened.
The two "experts" kept referring to pulling the trigger back, when it was obvious they meant the hammer. Then they began speculating how actors "fan the trigger to shoot a bunch of guys dead"! The one said they could "fan the trigger" and not even hold the trigger back!
I finally got so irritated with the total lack of expertise about a modern reproduction SAA that I had to turn the channel before it made my head explode!

Pitchy · Post by **Pitchy** » Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:09 pm

Seems simple to me, have a expert examine the gun and if it`s working correctly the gun couldn`t go off unless the trigger is pulled.

4t5 · Post by **4t5** » Sat Dec 04, 2021 3:48 pm

the prosecutor should take the firearm in question, cock it, put it on a table, and tell everyone in the courtroom "we're not leaving till this gun goes off ".

.45colt · Post by **.45colt** » Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:17 pm

The common sense question would be to the "Armorer" is when was the firearm last inspected ???. do You have a log book about the condition of "YOUR FIREARMS". has it been dry fired 50,000 times? when was it last cleaned? Any weapon that could chamber and fire a live round should certainly be maintained to a reasonable degree......

I don't care if it's a Colt , Uberti, or a Rossi, or a Baikal from Russia .
It really doesn't matter as there is NO REASON to have any live ROUNDS on a MOVIE SET. AND Baldwin is one of the producers.......... Dumb and Dumber every Day. YOU CANT TEACH IT.

.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:15 pm

Hey Sarge..this is the Colt "slip gun" that Taffin wrote about and Elmer Keith tested in 1928.....it operates no different than a regular single action except the hammer spur is welded to a lower point so it's easier to get your thumb on. Your trigger finger will naturally go into the trigger guard then you just thump it back and let it "slip". That's what Alec Baldwin did but it will probably will never get into print unless someone who knows what they are talking about is there.

Some guys tied the trigger back and some eliminated the notch altogether.....this one was done by Harold Croft.---006

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:25 pm

vancelw wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:45 am Baldwin is trying to blame the armorer or the gun.
The media is trying to blame the gun or Starline, claiming that Starline made the blanks and the live ammo.
Sorry folks, Starline makes neither.

Starline makes the 5 in Blank cartridges that are used in film.
I don't know if they make loaded ones, but I had about 50 unloaded and unfired Starline blanks. I gave them to a friend. I kept several just to have on hand.

EDIT: Starline 5 in 1 Blanks .. note extra large flash hole

IMG_2867.JPG

CowboyTutt · Post by **CowboyTutt** » Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:01 pm

The FBI has the gun and is investigating how it went off and will be reporting back soon. Baldwin either had some inside information to say what he said, or, he is trying to control the narrative before it comes out publicly which sometimes works, for a time. Everything he says and does now can and will be used against him in court if he is charged.

Currently the DA of Sante Fe said the following:

"But Carmack-Altwies says no one who handled guns on the movie set has been cleared of criminal culpability."

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/s ... ulpability

vancelw · Post by **vancelw** » Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:31 pm

JimT wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 6:25 pm
vancelw wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:45 am Baldwin is trying to blame the armorer or the gun.
The media is trying to blame the gun or Starline, claiming that Starline made the blanks and the live ammo.
Sorry folks, Starline makes neither.
Starline makes the 5 in Blank cartridges that are used in film.
I don't know if they make loaded ones, but I had about 50 unloaded and unfired Starline blanks. I gave them to a friend. I kept several just to have on hand.

EDIT: Starline 5 in 1 Blanks .. note extra large flash hole

IMG_2867.JPG

Does Starline actually make the 5-in-1 blanks or the brass for the blanks?
The articles I read were claiming Starline made their dummy rounds as well.

Sarge · Post by **Sarge** » Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:33 pm

Thanks for the details on the Croft revolver, Sixgun.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:08 pm

marlinman93 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:58 am. . . I finally got so irritated with the total lack of expertise about a modern reproduction SAA that I had to turn the channel before it made my head explode!

This is the society we have become. People watch that kind of thing and actually believe the "experts" have something to say worth listening to.

Of course I see the same thing happening in the medical arena on an ongoing basis, especially now with covid.

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:39 pm

vancelw wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:31 pm Does Starline actually make the 5-in-1 blanks or the brass for the blanks?
The articles I read were claiming Starline made their dummy rounds as well.

I don't know if they make the blanks or just the brass. I can see where they could make "dummy" rounds but I don't know if they do nor not.

elmo123 · Post by **elmo123** » Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:24 am

When I was a police officer I had the unfortunate task of working numerous negligent discharged firearms incidents several of which resulted in someone losing their life. One of the most common statements from the shooter's was "I didn't know it was loaded" and "I didn't pull the trigger it just went off".

Since I was also one of the armorers and firearms instructors you would be surprised how careless and complacent some of my fellow officers were with firearms. Those of us who had handled them since childhood were well aware of the basic safety principles those like Baldwin were outright dangerous. There were several negligent discharges at the PD and more that I sure went unreported I wonder how many there have been on movie sets that went unreported.

Bronco · Post by **Bronco** » Sun Dec 05, 2021 9:52 am

Safety ends with the person handling the firearm. Anything that happen afterwards is the person who is handling the firearm's responsibility!
I have had a negative opinion of baldwin for a long time. With that in mind, his statement makes me angry and shows me just how shallow of a person he is.
JMHO

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:48 pm

Looks like Baldwin, yesterday, got violently angry and charged at a reporter putting a little wind in his face. This speaks to this psycho's unstable behavior.

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Wed Dec 08, 2021 3:49 pm

Blaine wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:48 pm Looks like Baldwin, yesterday, got violently angry and charged at a reporter putting a little wind in his face. This speaks to this psycho's unstable behavior.

He's done that repeatedly over the years. Sooner or later, he'll do that to a guy that doesn't care who he is and give him the proper beating he should have gotten years ago. Like most bullies, they get real quiet after they lose a couple of teeth.

jb