OT: I need to pick a caliber, not a levergun

[86er]

I have the offer of having a custom bolt gun made, in part by me and in part by others. A combined effort but with me being the end-user. The catch is the caliber has to be medium to large bore and must suffice for African large game. Not necessarily a dangerous game rifle, but it must be capable of taking them. Not a stopping rifle at all, but who knows what it might be called upon to do.

I am thinking .404 Jeffrey. A 400 grain .423 bullet at 2200 fps for big stuff and a 300 grain bullet at 2600 fps for longer ranges and thinner skinned game.

I am genuinely interested in caliber recommendations including wildcats and the reasoning for the nod.

Thanks

[Old Savage]

Before I read your choice I was thinking 404 Jeffery. I have a friend who has one in a Dakota. Very nice to shoot. He took it to Africa and shot lion, warthog and water buffalo with it. He was very pleased. Plus, a certain romance to the round.

[Marlin .35]

If it were me, I would go all the way, and go for a .470 Nitro Cartridge. It was the favorite of Peter Hathaway Capstick. Always deadly, always reliable, never failing to do the job. Art

[awp101]

.408 CheyTac?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.408_Chey_Tac

As long as your considering customs/wildcats...

[arjunky]

.400 Brown-Whelen would roughly be the same velocity without the belted rim.


Byron

[O.S.O.K.]

Well, I am far from an expert in this area but I would look at 416 Rem or maybe if you have some time - see if Ruger comes out with the 416 that I've heard is on the way. This of course is a necked up 375 Ruger. It'd be a better cartridge from several standpoints - better than higher pressure rounds that is. I'd think better for hot climate work.

It'd allow for more action choices too being a standard length round...

It'd top the Jeffry round by a good margin and be available with a decent selection of domestic factory loads.

Just my 2 pesos.

[meanc]

I'd just go all out and get a 458 or 460 Magnum and shoot some of them 500/600gr pills at 2400fps.

[meanc]

OSOK mentioned the 416rem. Then there's the 416 Rigby.

Both will give you practically exactly what you're aiming for.

[shawn_c992001]

I'd have to go with 375H&H (or the Ackley Imp. version I've always liked Plus allows use of standard ammo!!!), 400 Jeffery, or the 458 Lott. The 458 Lott also allows use of 458 Win Mag ammo too. Of course there is the 9.3x62, and 9.3x64, 8mm Mag, .358 STA, 416 anything (I always liked the one based on the '06 round).

One thing I've always seen is the more common calibers are easier to find in remote locations. After all if you'r shooting a one off custom caliber and fly 10,000 miles to hunt whatever there is a very big chance that that 40-60 rounds of custom one off ammo that won't make it there. Then you're stuck with a club and a custom chamber.

[RKrodle]

How about a 416 Taylor, 400 gr bullet at 2400+ and the brass can be made from 458 Win Mag.

http://www.geocities.com/bw_99835/

[Malamute]

The newish 400 H&H looks interesting.




.......or the 465 H&H if you want larger.

[runfiverun]

375 h&h it does what it is supposed to do without knocking
your glasses off

[Jaguarundi]

375 h&h it does what it is supposed to do without knocking
your glasses off

+1 and the ammo is usually stocked were big things roam.

[Jaguarundi]

OSOK mentioned the 416rem. Then there's the 416 Rigby.

Both will give you practically exactly what you're aiming for.

Between the two choices I would lean towards the 416 Rigby.The 416 remington magnum powder charge is tempermental to ambient temperature. The problem with 416 Rigby is you really need a true magnum mauser action.

[El Chivo]

I agree with getting a commonly found round just in case. I hear the .375 is big in Africa and is no slouch. Nothing like thinking ahead.

[GANJIRO]

With the exceptions of the 375 H&H, and 300 H&H I have never been a fan of belted magnums the superfluous belts serving no real purpose since head spacing is on the shoulder on modern belted magnums. That being said I really like the 416 Rigby, and 505 Gibbs though maybe overkill for your stated purposes. Thus I would recommend the medium bore Germans the 9.3 x 62 Mauser, or the 9.3 x 64 Brenneke great for medium game like Kudu, and Eland but can deal with bigger game in a pinch.

[Pete44ru]

I've never been to Africa, but nontheless would recommend the .375H&H, for it's good terminal effect, good ammo availability anywhere, moderate felt recoil, and standard action/bolt-throw.

[4t5]

If it were me I'd pick a.. 35 WHELEN ..a useful cartrige no matter where your hunting.

[rjohns94]

Joe, I suspect you have a .375 already. If I were to have one rifle, and only one, I would choose the .375 for game all over this planet, any game. I think the .375 would get used more than some of the big Nitros (though the .470 NE is a very desired cartridge). Having said that, the next choice would .404 Jeffrey. I have shot that cartrdige alot and gives about the same performance as others mentioned. I like it too because its not a nitch cartridge, able to be used for most game. I have read of those who have used it on ditka. I don't think you would be disappointed at all with .404. My second favorite world cartridge.

[KirkD]

A factor for me would be answered by the question, "Is it an old classic, or one of the new cartridges?" Being the fellow that I am, I would choose my cartridge/caliber from the set of old Classics.

[PaulB]

Another vote for the 9.3x62. That way you can use it here too, and it is more fun to shoot (and lighter to carry) than the heavier calibers. As much a classic as the 375H&H.

[buckeyeshooter]

I have DGR's in 458WM and 470 Capstick. The capstick's a blast. Componets are a bit more expensive, but you can use cast or pistol bullets in 475 to play with. I am positive it would have enough whomp for whatever you wanted to shoot.

[Savage99]

9.3x62 would be pretty cool..So would a .404 jeffery.

[Comal Forge]

Important point: As others have alluded, you want to be able to get ammunition anywhere in the world as it may not be possible to handload in certain situations. Based partly on that and partly on proven performance, my first vote is the .375 H&H and the .458 Win as second choice. The .416 is a good cartridge but I am not certain of general availability.

[piller]

What about the .376 Steyr as is used in the Dragoon version of the Scout. If not that, then the .375 H&H, or the .375 Ackley Improved, or a 9.3 x whatever is most common in Africa. Doesn't the Ackley Improved still fire the parent cartridge? If so, then it would be a good possible choice.

[CowboyTutt]

86er, you have probably made a great choice with the Jeffrey. I'm partial to the 416 Rigby myself. Also, as I mentioned to you in a PM, I have a CZ 550 in 375 H&H AI. It shoots a 300 grain Barnes bullet at 2650-2700 fps and a 350 grain Woodleigh PP at just under 2500 fps. The advantage is the greater BC of the 375 bullet over a larger one makes far more energy down range when you are past 100 yards. In short, it is a very versatile rifle for short or long range, and can also shoot "regular" 375 H&H in a pinch.

-Tutt

[Jaguarundi]

As much as I like 35 Whelen and the 9.3's a few African countries have minimium caliber regs for hunting Large thickskin game(the big five,in most cases)-.375 or up for Large game.

[reddnek]

375 either H&H or Weatherby

[Noah Zark]

35 Whelen.

Noah

[AndyM]

A rifle that begins with a 4.... one of the 416's or the 458 Winchester - I always thought I'd like to have a 458 Model 70 some day, just in case I ever get to the Africa

[Tycer]

A 400 grain .423 bullet at 2200 fps for big stuff and a 300 grain bullet at 2600 fps for longer ranges and thinner skinned game.
Thanks

Sure sounds like the 45-70 would fit the bill.

[Bluehawk]

Id be partial to the 416 Rigby I have always wanted one of those BUT in the past I have owned three in 375 H&H and since I do not have one at this time I woud go for that now IF IT WERE ME
Half the fun here is the choosing Hope what ever your choice is that its right for you and you have a lot of fun and lots of meat with the gun

[Griff]

I gotta agree with OS, rjohns and KirkD; you gotta decide whether to go with the classic or the new... I'm tempermentally inclined to the classics, and the .375 H&H, .404 Jeffery or .416 Rigby would meet your requirements, IMO.

[86er]

After everyone's input and some conferring with other experts, this project is leaning heavily towards 458 Win Mag. My criteria of a usable 300 yd trajectory with light loads that are soft enough for medium game are making it difficult. The 458 can be loaded with 300gr Nosler Partitions at around 2600 fps. The trajectory becomes 100yds + 3.5" 200yds -.5" 300yds -18".

The problem with the 404 Jeffrey was the 423 diameter is only available in 347gr or larger and all are heavily jacketed bullets. We took a serious look at the 416 Rem but it kicks at both ends moreso than the others and relies on high pressures to make things happen.

Any input here for or against - or an alternate - is appreciated.

[Hillbilly]

just a side note... whatever you pick make sure you can get a good load with solid bullets. I know a lot of folks like soft points and jackets... I have not hunted any dangerous game nor Africa... but if I was I'd like to have some solids in case I ran into any critter that could stomp me and eat me.

I think .416 Rigby fits the bill... can you get solids for the .458 win?

~Jeff

[Old Savage]

That being your choice, you might read Jim Carmichael's writing on his use of the 458. In I believe it was "The Book of the Rifle".

[Noah Zark]

Huh.

And to think that W.D.M. "Karamojo" Bell did most of his hunting with the 7x57 Mauser and what amounted to the British equivalent of the .257 Roberts.

Noah

[CowboyTutt]

Well, in that case I would go with the 458 Lott. It can shoot both 454 Win and Lott. Even more versatile!

-Tutt

[Bruce Scott]

.450 NE
"....the .450 Nitro-Express will continue to be appreciated by that circle of cognoscenti who recognise that it was the first, the best in its class and all anyone would ever need when facing the most dangerous game on Earth." http://www.cybertorpedo.com/africanhunt ... ess_01.htm

[rjohns94]

Just have a mold made for what ever cast bullet you want for the .404. In fact, have two made, one light, one heavy. I still say the .404.

[86er]

Unfortunately, the 404 is not available for this project. The choices are:

Available Calibers Corresponding Twist Rates
17 Rem. 1-9"
.204 Ruger 1-12"
.221 Rem. 1-9", 1-12" and 1-14"
.222 Rem.
.223 Rem.
.223 Ackley
.222 Rem. Mag.
.225 Win.
.22 Rem. BR
.22-250 Rem.
.22-250 Ackley
.220 Swift.
.223 WSSM
.22 PPC
.224 Wby.
.224 TTH
6mm Rem. BR 1-10" and 1-12"
6mm PPC
.243 Win.
6mm Rem.
.240 Wby.
6mm-284
6mmx47
.243 WSSM
.243 WIN
.250 Savage 1-10"
.250 Savage Improved
.257 Roberts
.257 Ackley (40°)
.25-284
.25-06 Rem.
.257 Wby.
.25 WSSM
.260 Rem. 1-9"
6.5mmx55
6.5mmx284
6.5mm-06
6.5mm Rem. Mag.
.264 Win. Mag.
.270 Win. 1-10"
.270-300 Wsm.
.270 Wby.
7mmx57 Mauser 1-9.5"
7mm-08
.280 Rem. (7mm Express Rem.)
.280 Ackley (40°)
.284 Win.
7mm Rem. Mag.
7mm BR
7mm S.T.W.
7mm Ultra Mag.
7mm-300 Wsm.
7mm Rem. SM
30.06 Ackley Imp. 1-10" and 1-12"
.30 Rem. SM
.300 Savage
.308 Win.
30-06
.308 Norma Mag.
.30-338
.300 H&H
.300 Wby.
.300 Rem. Ultra Mag.
.300 Wsm.
.300 Win. Mag.
6mm Ackley
.243 Ackley
8mm Mauser (8x57) 1-9.5"
8mm-06
8mm Rem. Mag.
.325 WSM
7mm Wby
.338-06 1-10"
.338 Win. Mag.
.338 Ultra Mag.
.338 Fed.
.25-06 Ackley
.338-06 Ackley
.340 Wby.
.35 Rem. 1-14"
.358 Win.
.35 Whelen
.35 Whelen Imp.
.350 Rem. Mag.
.358 Norma
.375x8mm Mag. 1-12"
.375-338 Mag.
.375 Ultra
.375 H&H
.416 Rem. Mag. 1-15"
.416 Taylor
.458x2" AMC6 1-14" and 1-22"
.450 Marlin
.45-70 Gov't.
.458 Win. Mag.
.458 Lott.

[papabear]

7mmx57 Mauser 1-9.5" , .300 Savage , 375 H&H
Joe here are my top three picks

[rjohns94]

Any from .375 down on that list. .375, 416, 458 I guess would be my choice. If this is gonna be your all round, hunt most everything with, can't go wrong with the .375 H&H on the dark continent. If you are going to use here and on your ranch, maybe even the 30-06 or .338

[meanc]

From your list I couldn't see anything (other than the 416) that will give you what you're looking for on top of being able to sling a 500gr at 0ver 2000fps.



A 300gr from 1300fps to 2800fps

A 400gr from 1100fps to 2400fps

A 500gr/510gr from 1700fps to 2100fps


I think you'll be happy going with the 458.

[NonPCnraRN]

It is not on the list but I would jump the gun and neck up the 375 Ruger to 416. 416 cal barrels should be plentiful. You said it was custom!

[gamekeeper]

OSOK mentioned the 416rem. Then there's the 416 Rigby.

Both will give you practically exactly what you're aiming for.

+1

[KirkD]

Okay, now for something completely outside the box .....
The problem with the 45-70 is stuffing enough slow burning powder in that case to get both a lot of power and manageable pressure. But a 45-90 in a modern Miroku receiver and frame might solve that problem. You would need a fast twist to handle the longer heavier bullets. Basically, what might work is a 45-70 bored out to handle the slightly longer 45-90 cartridges, in a modern Miroku '86 package. I would think you could get another couple hundred feet per second over anything you could get out of a 45-70. I guess I'm just a diehard, traditional, old school levergunner.

[RKrodle]

Hey, I think you should get one of each!!!!

[shawn_c992001]

I got to throw out some drool factor for the .375x8mm Mag. I absolutely love the 8mm Mag, got one in a 700 Classic and won't part with it for anything. 125gr SP to practice and shoot the groundhogs with. (Is there anything left? Absolutely not!!!) 150gr. to deer hunt with. 180-220 for everything else. Sorry for the rant.

You should be able to fire factory 375 H&H ammo through that thing too. The 8mm Mag uses the 375 H&H case anyway. I've fireformed 8 Mag cases from 375 H&H cases.

My vote 375x8mm Mag all the way!!!

[Travis Morgan]

4 gauge?