44 mag/44-40 in a .444 ?

xxclaro · Post by **xxclaro** » Tue May 20, 2008 4:13 pm

I'm curious, can one shoot .44 mag or .44-40 through a .444 Marlin rifle, much like one would use .38 in a .357? I have a .444 Big bore that I like to take intot the mountains with me for bear protection and elk hunting, but some mild .44-40 cowboy loads might work nice for grouse and general plinking. I thought I'ds heard this had been done, maybe even by someone here. Any idea's?

Gun Smith · Post by **Gun Smith** » Tue May 20, 2008 4:33 pm

Go to Steves Pages, he has case dimensions of these cartridges. It looks to me that there is too much difference to be a sucessful fit.

Terry Murbach · Post by **Terry Murbach** » Tue May 20, 2008 4:52 pm

THE 44-40 WORKS PRETTY WELL IN SUCH AN APPLICATION.

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Tue May 20, 2008 4:59 pm

Terry Murbach wrote:THE 44-40 WORKS PRETTY WELL IN SUCH AN APPLICATION.

Are ya sure about that, the 44-40 case rim is larger than a 45LC ?
My thinking is you might have some issues here.

Not to mention a tremendous amount of free bore.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Tue May 20, 2008 6:05 pm

Never shoot any ammo in a gun that it is not properly marked for!

It may work, however, it may not. Results may not be catastrophic, however it could ruin a good gun and performance will never be optimal.

lever-4-life · Post by **lever-4-life** » Tue May 20, 2008 6:20 pm

I dont know about that, but if your .444 is a marlin with micro groove you can shoot remington 2 1/2 inch .410 shells in it. The federal and winchester have a different crimp so they hang up but the remingtons work. I knew an old timer that killed deer and bear with the 444 and quail, tree rats, and rabbits with the .410.

Post by **Old Savage** » Tue May 20, 2008 7:07 pm

Paco has written about shooting a lot of 44-40 in the 444.

Lefty Dude · Post by **Lefty Dude** » Tue May 20, 2008 10:52 pm

If a 44-40 is shot in a 444, it is no longer a 44-40. Then what is it ?

A short 444 ?

Why not shoot a 44 mag. ?

44 Mag. would be approx. same length as 44-40.

Mag. is a stronger case.

Some shooter's are using 44 Russians in 44-40's.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed May 21, 2008 6:50 am

Lefty Dude wrote: Why not shoot a 44 mag. ?
44 Mag. would be approx. same length as 44-40.
Mag. is a stronger case.

If you look at the cartridge dimensions, the .44-40 is VERY close to the diameter of the .444 at the base, whereas the .44 Mag is significantly smaller diameter. I think the .44-40 would be supported well and the .44 Mag not, so the Mag would bulge or blow and the .44-40 wouldn't.

It would be nice if there were a .44 Mag stretched for long guns, like the .45 Colt/.454 Casull/.460 S&W series - but since nobody yet makes the .460 in a levergun, the .440 or whatever you'd call it would just be a wildcat anyway.

Post by **Hobie** » Wed May 21, 2008 7:13 am

Terry Murbach wrote:THE 44-40 WORKS PRETTY WELL IN SUCH AN APPLICATION.

While I wouldn't have thunk it would work but Terry and Paco have done this and it works. Of course the cases aren't necessarily usable afterwards. Some of this usability is due to the combination of lower pressures and thnner brass of the .44-40 (as well as the closer case base dimensions). I dang sure wouldn't do it with a .44 Mag. It has a smaller case head and runs at much higher pressures. I've had some .44 Mag cases split in .44 Mag chambers. I would not want that in my .444...

My question is WHY? As an experiment it might be interesting but as a practical matter? You might get usable accuracy but you can also handload the .444 to give the same usable velocity and put the bullet MUCH closer to the correct throat/bore relationship.

One thing for certain the .444 Marlin is NOT a lengthened .44 Mag like the .357 Max and Mag are lengthened .38 Specials, that would be the .445 Super Mag.

This was once a big topic on the old forum and I bet you saw it there. I think Paco has written an article (or portion thereof) regarding this.

xxclaro · Post by **xxclaro** » Wed May 21, 2008 9:22 am

Thanks everyone. I thinks Hobie's right,must have read it on the old forum. Hobie, these .44/40 type loads you speak of, any chance you got data handy? I have a bunch of 250 cast bullets kicking around, I'd love to get them down to around 800 fps and just shoot small game and stuff with them.

Post by **Hobie** » Wed May 21, 2008 9:33 am

Nope, no loads to hand. IIRC these were just factory level .44-40 loads, jacketed or cast/swaged.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Wed May 21, 2008 10:21 am

The .44-40 can be used in a .444 but if done regularly without a good cleaning after use, it will be very difficult to clean the chamber in front of the rifling.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Wed May 21, 2008 11:17 am

Here is the article from paco. Still just a personal opinion, but aside from a .38 in a .357 or .44 spc in a .44 mag, I personally would not exchange ammo. I know it can be done so safely, however, you have to ask yourself what your gaining from it. Murphys Law always seems to get the best of me, if something can go wrong, it will! Good Luck with your venture. Be sure to show pics of the hunt.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/444.htm

preventec47 · Post by **preventec47** » Wed May 21, 2008 6:48 pm

One thing not explored here greatly is cost of ammo. The 44-40
ammo I have seen for cowboy shooting is nearly expensive
as the 444. So what is the point? I agree if you dont handload
and must use storebought ammo and you want a weak load
I guess you may be justified.

I might go get the images of both cases with dimensions to post
here so everyone can see how similar in size the cases are.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Wed May 21, 2008 7:04 pm

Just load about 13 gr of Trail Boss in the .444 case behind a 250-300gr cast bullet and you have a great small game/plinker load.

Very soft recoil and accurate. 50yd target.

xxclaro · Post by **xxclaro** » Wed May 21, 2008 7:41 pm

Excellent, that's exactly the kind of load I was looking for. No danger or detonation from the small quantity powder in that size case? I still have to get some dies for the this calibre, but as soon as I do I'll load some up. Much thanks.