![Mr. Green :mrgreen:](./images/smilies/icon_mrgreen.gif)
Of course CNN makes it out like the only reason the murderer was stopped was that a "former reserve deputy" was there as part of a "security detail", so it is all ok and official and all that....
![Rolling Eyes :roll:](./images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
It does prompt me to rethink my everyday habits.....Still, like Eastwood said...a Man gots to know his limitations.JimT wrote: ↑Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:35 pm Video of the shooting
https://nypost.com/2019/12/29/texas-chu ... es-2-dead/
One reason I don't carry a little bitty gun when I'm out.
Have them watch the video of the shooting ... how fast it went down .. what everyone did and did not do. Watch it about 20 times. It's amazing what you see. While some reacted instantly some sat through the entire deal and after it was over started looking around like "what's going on?" ... the poor security guy drawing while under the muzzle of the shotgun .. he kept trying though it was hopeless. Prayers for his family.wm wrote: ↑Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:07 pm I don't want to sound alarmist but beware copycats. Like the school shooting phenomenon, I'm afraid the church shooting is going to become something to be worried about.
I'm a member of my church's security team. I wish I could motivate the others on the team to take some training. I wish at age 52 I was not the youngest on the team. Above all I wish they did not need a security team.
Wm
Yep to all of the above. SO MUCH of our nation's safety, security, and stability depends on GETTING YOUNG PEOPLE INVOLVED.wm wrote: ↑Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:07 pm I don't want to sound alarmist but beware copycats. Like the school shooting phenomenon, I'm afraid the church shooting is going to become something to be worried about.
I'm a member of my church's security team. I wish I could motivate the others on the team to take some training. I wish at age 52 I was not the youngest on the team. Above all I wish they did not need a security team.
True.
That was said in some news reports but it was in error. He is a Firearms Instructor .. he has been a Reserve Deputy .. was in the National Guard and has a business that does stuff with the DOD.Booger Bill wrote: ↑Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:07 pm I read that the man that killed the shooter is retired FBI. He had training. I don`t know why we are having these shootings that we didn't have near as many forty years ago.
Goes back to the sheepdog analogy …… most people are sheep. And I don't mean that in a pejorative manner. People do not practice violence, harshness, brutish behavior. They go decades at a time without it. We think flipping someone off on the highway is pretty extreme. To expect them to go to a deadly level of violent action on a moments notice isn't reasonable. It just isn't the instinctive thing to do in modern society. They maybe can be violent if they think about it and weigh the options. It is only a handful of people that can become violent enough, quick enough to effectively engage the bad guy who has initiated violence at his or her convenience.JimT wrote: ↑Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:06 pmTrue.
Problem: A close friend who teaches classes for the County PD asks each class "How many of you have ever been in a fist fight?" He told me that percentages are very very low. Classes with 25 people often only have 3 or 4 who have ever been in a fight.
It's just not PC.
Most of our population have had that educated out of them.
I'm pretty sure Six didn't mean to square off according to the Queensbury Rules...JimT wrote: ↑Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:06 pmTrue.
Problem: A close friend who teaches classes for the County PD asks each class "How many of you have ever been in a fist fight?" He told me that percentages are very very low. Classes with 25 people often only have 3 or 4 who have ever been in a fight.
It's just not PC.
Most of our population have had that educated out of them.
Forty years ago when I lived in Ohio and they had no 'permits' for CCW, I would carry whatever was discrete and sacrifice stopping power for that reason (although the first year there the only handgun I had for CCW was a 7-1/2" Ruger Super Blackhawk in a Bianchi X-15 shoulder rig...
Same here. The only time I'm not carrying a full size 1911, or my full size S&W 59 9mm is if it's summer and I can;t conceal either of the big guns.AJMD429 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:20 am
Since then, however, I pretty much carry a 1911 or full-size 9mm. If God forbid I ever have to shoot a violent aggressor, I want them to be stopped immediately. As for worrying about being 'spotted', since I'm a legal CCW licensee, I don't fear law enforcement, and most bad-guys aren't that observant. The non-bad-guys of the world really don't seem to care if a good-guy is carrying a firearm, and most people seem content with the illusion that I'm a good-guy.
The old saying " You default to your training, you don't rise to the occasion." comes to mind.marlinman93 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:42 am I don't think the god guy who took the murderer down with a head shot was a lucky shot at all. It might be a lucky shot for many people, but he is a firearms instructor with his own training facility where he trains people for a living. I'm betting he can make head shots at 50 ft. all day long, every day.
50 ft. is standard distance for Bullseye pistol matches, and when I shot Bullseye matches anyone who couldn't keep all 10 shots in at least a 2" circle at 50 ft., offhand, one handed, couldn't really compete. Now there's no pressure at a match like this gentleman was seeing' but I bet his head shot was pure instinct training, and not luck at all.
I agree with those 2 quotes, and others too, but they prompt this thought.
yes you canAJMD429 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:34 pm Did you guys see how the recent attempted 'mass shooter' at the West Freeway Church in Texas wound up having at least five churchgoers draw down on him and lethally shoot him within six seconds...
Of course CNN makes it out like the only reason the murderer was stopped was that a "former reserve deputy" was there as part of a "security detail", so it is all ok and official and all that....https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/30/us/texas ... index.html
Did you notice how far away the church security guy was? Not exactly positioned "close enough to quickly take him out". Since it's a large church, he was 50 ft. away. Not exactly the distance one would choose if he was getting ready to take a possible clean shot.Lastmohecken wrote: ↑Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:14 pm
I wonder if the man that took out the bad guy, positioned himself on that side of the church, after spotting the unusual hoodie dressed individual, or was it just pure luck that he was close enough to quickly take him out, because if he had been on the other side of the church, this tragedy would have probably been much worse with more lives lost.
There were two security guys right on the Pelosimarlinman93 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:19 amDid you notice how far away the church security guy was? Not exactly positioned "close enough to quickly take him out". Since it's a large church, he was 50 ft. away. Not exactly the distance one would choose if he was getting ready to take a possible clean shot.Lastmohecken wrote: ↑Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:14 pm
I wonder if the man that took out the bad guy, positioned himself on that side of the church, after spotting the unusual hoodie dressed individual, or was it just pure luck that he was close enough to quickly take him out, because if he had been on the other side of the church, this tragedy would have probably been much worse with more lives lost.
Old No7Ysabel Kid wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:57 pm Churches need to understand that shootings at religious places are now "a thing" (for the same reason they are in other "gun-free" zones). All such placed need trained security. Further, if the security team is doing their jobs, some people are going to be stopped and challenged. Some will get upset. It's the price of being vigilant and safe.
It's sad, but some "basic training" for groups of people in any situation. Everybody hit the ground and get small/provide a line of sight for the defenders... If you are inclined to engage the shooter, stay low until ready, then try to take the shot kneeling so if you miss the shot will go up and away from the backdrop. These days? Condition White is unacceptable.Old No7 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:17 pm It wasn't our choice to have this tragic event unfold so we could second-guess it, but I believe we have a responsibility to ourselves, our loved ones and our communities to to learn from it now that it's out there.
That said, I'm with Jay on this:Old No7Ysabel Kid wrote: ↑Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:57 pm Churches need to understand that shootings at religious places are now "a thing" (for the same reason they are in other "gun-free" zones). All such placed need trained security. Further, if the security team is doing their jobs, some people are going to be stopped and challenged. Some will get upset. It's the price of being vigilant and safe.